Time to get rid of the car?

tdi90hp said:

I got a 14 M3. 6 speed as you know or may have read. I think they are in the game. The GT is nice but don't undersell the smaller motor. Better mileage and cheaper to run and in ontariostan probably slightly cheaper insurance as the insurance companies HATE the word GT...as if its a Camaro SS or something. You will also save thousands with the small engine up front. Just drive it a little harder if you want more power. On the highway you can cruise 80MPH easy peasy. This whole conversation about how complicated the new TDIs are is a BIG important conversation. I hope VW is listening. when long time owners are leaving the brand what will happen to new converts? a new convert will NOT have the patience or the loyalty to hang around and give VW another try. The first big expense and many will bolt back to simpler set ups with no DPFs/Turbos/3 fuel pumps/Expensive Cats/Intercoolers and on and on...I have always loved VW but I say again....buy an extended warranty and trade it or sell it before warranty runs out. Post warranty in todays environment you must assume more risk and as said above may wipe out ALL your savings/big resale in one huge repair bill. Shame really because it's gonna be a lot of second owners who will suffer because of lack of knowledge...

Click to expand...

Amen to everything you have wrote.

So you have 2014 M3 with 2.0L I assume? I was aiming for 2.5 because the savings in gas are not enormous in my case, but I was expecting the 2.5 to move, much closer or past how TDI can move especially in higher gears due to the torque figures. I actually ended up disappointed how 2.5l felt .... until someone on a Mazda forum has mentioned to me that the GT comes with regular, default, mode and sport mode. I suspect I didn't drive it with sport mode on (I floored the 6th gear, doing 100km/h, on hwy and literally nothing has happened ...), will have to go back and give also the little brother a try.

It might be that, I could settle for GS with some packages, unless there's something I cannot option in the lower trims.

My big hope is that, the drive train and emission systems are much simpler in the M3 than in any future diesel vehicle and most of gas vehicles on the market today. Time will tell I guess ....

FS: 13 Jetta Sportwagen

To show how serious I am $17000, 12k miles call me 713 208 1006

mxs said:

Amen to everything you have wrote.

So you have 2014 M3 with 2.0L I assume? I was aiming for 2.5 because the savings in gas are not enormous in my case, but I was expecting the 2.5 to move, much closer or past how TDI can move especially in higher gears due to the torque figures. I actually ended up disappointed how 2.5l felt .... until someone on a Mazda forum has mentioned to me that the GT comes with regular, default, mode and sport mode. I suspect I didn't drive it with sport mode on (I floored the 6th gear, doing 100km/h, on hwy and literally nothing has happened ...), will have to go back and give also the little brother a try.

It might be that, I could settle for GS with some packages, unless there's something I cannot option in the lower trims.

My big hope is that, the drive train and emission systems are much simpler in the M3 than in any future diesel vehicle and most of gas vehicles on the market today. Time will tell I guess ....

Click to expand...

They are surely simpler(they do have DI, but no turbo, no T belt, no expensive fuel filter, etc...). Mazda has stuck to the basics and lightened them and improved them to the point where they are one of the lowest warranty franchises in NA now. BUT remember the 1.8T in the 15 Golf will walk a 2.0L M3 AND is cheaper than a GT M3...But it has a turbo. If you are really into less complicated (not trouble free though) free you need to go Toy/Hon/Hyu/Kia/Niss/Maz/or Base cruse/Base Focus/Dart.
IF the 1.8T is strong ...we wont know for a long time... that will be the value play of the year.

I can squeeze the extra cost for the GT, that's not my biggest concern, I just want it to be somewhat comparable to what I have now, without the worry of extra costs in the future. The GT is priced extremely close to Golf TDI Highline. 1.8T in Highline trim will be cheaper for sure, but it would not make me buy the Golf ...

It still pisses me off, because the plan was to keep the TDI for 200K, or 10 years, so I am not happy that I have to look for a replacement.

I recall people complaining about EGR valve problems with prior cars I have owned, so I don't think these kinds of maintenance problems are entirely unusual. Yes, when you throw in a turbo and other parts, all of those parts are wearable, and add to potential maintenance costs. Even so, I expect the TDI to do better than my RX-7 and similar cars. But the bottom line is, I think we can expect some maintenance items; the question is, is it worth it? I have not yet run into a car that didn't have some sort of problem by 100k, even when I had an Acura, although things were minor with that car, no turbo to go bad, etc.

For me, it's clearly more than I am willing put up with ..... I am already 450$ out replacing exhaust sensor within 15K of expired warranty. I should have left it as is, if I knew that DPF was busted at the time ....

Secondly, it's not EGR valve ... but rather a filter which is supposed to last at least 8 years and 160K (going by the VW warranty). I would bet that VW thought these filters will last life time of a vehicle under normal conditions. The EGR filter is supposed to be changed in sync with DPF, yet they don't cover both, claiming that EGR filter is a maintenance item (like your brakes), even though it clearly depends on how healthy is your DPF, because the EGR filter is behind it ....

I also, look through VW maintenance book and I cannot find anything there about the EGR filter ..... so I think it's all one big BS, because their reasoning simply makes no sense.

mxs said:

... I floored the 6th gear, doing 100km/h, on hwy and literally nothing has happened ...

Click to expand...

I think you will find that that's how it is. The way you get decent fuel consumption out of a gasoline engine is to gear it tall so that the engine is under load but spinning slowly ... but the result is that nothing happens in top gear. The Mazda engine is no different in this regard. It's not too bad with auto tranny (which just downshifts out of top gear) but with manual in top gear ... it's up to you to do that downshift.

I just came back from a trip to North Carolina with my new van (which has the 3.6 Pentastar gas engine). In the hills, it goes between 5th and 6th a lot (auto tranny). But it also did 10.9 L/100 km average for the trip ... which I consider to be not bad for something that big. Friend's new GM van (5.3 V8 / 6-speed) used 17 L/100 km ...

Reading all of these, I am just glad that I was able to get rid of the whole OEM exhaust system, DPF, EGR, etc, here in Texas

GoFaster said:

I think you will find that that's how it is. The way you get decent fuel consumption out of a gasoline engine is to gear it tall so that the engine is under load but spinning slowly ... but the result is that nothing happens in top gear. The Mazda engine is no different in this regard. It's not too bad with auto tranny (which just downshifts out of top gear) but with manual in top gear ... it's up to you to do that downshift.
I just came back from a trip to North Carolina with my new van (which has the 3.6 Pentastar gas engine). In the hills, it goes between 5th and 6th a lot (auto tranny). But it also did 10.9 L/100 km average for the trip ... which I consider to be not bad for something that big. Friend's new GM van (5.3 V8 / 6-speed) used 17 L/100 km ...

Click to expand...

Clearly, I am learning that .... it's not that I didn't expect a difference, it's just how little the car was willing to accelerate in high gear. I think to get any movement out of six gear you'd have to be doing at least 120+ They must be gearing it really tall.

People on Mazda forum are saying that the auto-tranny is exciting with throttle blips on down shifts, but they also say that the sport mode (which turns the feature on as well quicker upshifts) sends the fuel cons. past anything Mazda would remotely tell you ... I am suspect you are looking close 9-10L/100 in a city driving (and that seems a tad high for still a small car 2015 model). Plus I would kind of throw a curve ball into the simpler-the better logic by buying electronics loaded auto tranny ...

Seems like I will have to be willing settle for major compromises, I didn't think would be needed in the beginning.

It would be just so much simpler if VW could give me a reliable car ... :-(

MBQ said:

Reading all of these, I am just glad that I was able to get rid of the whole OEM exhaust system, DPF, EGR, etc, here in Texas

Click to expand...

Texas, the land of exhaust system freedom ...

Hey Afarfllla,

You serious? What trim is it? Manual or DSG?

I was looking for a Passat TDI for my wife. I have 200k on my old ’05 BEW…no real problems at all. Really like my old car. Really wanted another VW TDI to replace our minivan…kids are now grown and a new diesel would have been fun. Based on this conversation, looks like we go Toyota….Oh, what a feeling.

MBQ said:

Reading all of these, I am just glad that I was able to get rid of the whole OEM exhaust system, DPF, EGR, etc, here in Texas

Click to expand...

mxs said:

Texas, the land of exhaust system freedom ...

Click to expand...

Far from it. I was just reading this earlier today:

(a) Any person owning or operating any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine on which is installed or incorporated a system or device used to control emissions from the motor vehicle in compliance with federal motor vehicle rules shall maintain the system or device in good operable condition and shall use it at all times that the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine is operated.
(b) No person may remove or make inoperable any system or device used to control emissions from a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine or any part thereof, except where the purpose of removal of the system or device, or part thereof, is to install another system or device, or part thereof, which is equally effective in reducing emissions from the vehicle...

Click to expand...

Texas law prohibits any person from selling, offering for sale, leasing, or offering to lease any vehicle not equipped with all emission control systems or devices in good operable condition. Violators are subject to penalties under the Texas Clean Air Act of up to $25,000 per violation. Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle.

Click to expand...

Texas Administrative Code rule §114.20 Maintenance and Operation of Air Pollution Control Systems or Devices Used to Control Emissions from Motor Vehicles

If you live in the United States of America, anywhere, it is a violation of Federal law to tamper with or remove emission control devices. Always has been. Makes no different what state you are in, or if the car gets inspected periodically or not.

"Getting away with it" doesn't mean you are not still breaking the law.

oilhammer said:

If you live in the United States of America, anywhere, it is a violation of Federal law to tamper with or remove emission control devices. Always has been. Makes no different what state you are in, or if the car gets inspected periodically or not.

"Getting away with it" doesn't mean you are not still breaking the law.

Click to expand...

Here in Texas we cannot p*ss off the oil people. "We love the smell of diesel in the morning" If you continue this dialogue Obama will create another agency "TDP" Lets all focus on airplanes and volcano's and what they spew into the atmosphere and leave our few modified TDI's alone, for they are a very very small part of the bigger equation! If VW had done it right this conversation wouldn't exist. Your dialogue on the matter should be directed to VW, they created a Frankenstein and we are the expierment

danielttt said:

I was looking for a Passat TDI for my wife. I have 200k on my old ’05 BEW…no real problems at all. Really like my old car. Really wanted another VW TDI to replace our minivan…kids are now grown and a new diesel would have been fun. Based on this conversation, looks like we go Toyota….Oh, what a feeling.

Click to expand...

My wife made a similar comment after I had to pitch buying yet another $$$ part for my TDI- "Why didn't you just buy a Honda?"

It's too bad that, as much fun as these cars are to own/drive, the perception held by non-TDI folks is that these are nightmares to own and maintain.

threeshot223 said:

My wife made a similar comment after I had to pitch buying yet another $$$ part for my TDI- "Why didn't you just buy a Honda?"

It's too bad that, as much fun as these cars are to own/drive, the perception held by non-TDI folks is that these are nightmares to own and maintain.

Click to expand...

I think the proper statement is:

It's too bad that, as much fun as these cars are to [not own]/drive, the perception held by non-TDI folks is that these are nightmares to own and maintain.

Actually they are fun to drive and owning and maintaining is the problem.
They are low cost to drive up until the time you need to spend the money on maintenance.

If there was another car that could get 50 mpg and wasn't a tin can that I hated spending 10 hours a week sitting in, I could be lured from my love of the "dub". Oh...and that'd have to be a "real" 50 mpg. Not what it says on the sticker or the sales pitch.....

b1jackson said:

If there was another car that could get 50 mpg and wasn't a tin can that I hated spending 10 hours a week sitting in, I could be lured from my love of the "dub". Oh...and that'd have to be a "real" 50 mpg. Not what it says on the sticker or the sales pitch.....

Click to expand...

Concur! I spend a lot of time in my car as well. Hell, I even have to sleep in it sometimes. Much as the maintenance can add up, to me it is worth it to be able to drive something that is fun to drive!

Hmmm, just finished reading / scanning the 4 pages of this thread. I am currently driving an 01 jetta TDI with 320,000km on the clock. Bought the car from dealer in 03. I am in the market for a new car and my heart looks at the diesel, but my head (and wallet) maybe looking at something else (Honda, Toyota???). I drive the car for work purposes and I am in the car pretty much all day (10am to 3:30pm). I drove apporx 3,300kms last year for work purposes only. My work driving does involve what I call short jaunts (5-15kms). Depending on the time of year my travel can go up to 70km trips for work doing (80 - 100km/hr). My commute to work (one-way) is 11km where I get the car up to 80 - 90km/hr. I do get the car on the 403 for 30 - 40minute trips fairly regularly, hopefully that blows the carbon out. I did replace the turbo in 07 i believe ($1400 repair). So, the Golf TDI 2015 appeals to my heart, the thing is great to drive, i love the torque, but I am not sure that the TDI is the car for me. Maybe I should be looking at the TSI gasser? Or at another car company all together. Someone stated that this was a depressing thread, and it is if you love the TDI and VW. I don't think that you can deny the reliability issues and the repair cost. The 4 other guys at my work who do essentially the same / similar driving I do for work purposes: two drive Corollas, one a Hyudia Tuscon and the other a Ford F150. i'll have to decide soon. tough decision considering the $$$$ involved. Whatever car I buy I plan on keeping it for 15y. Just not sure the TDI is the car I need as I don't do a lot of hwy driving cruising at 140kms/hr for 2-3hrs, which is where these cars excel. The dealership will tell you whatever they think you want to hear to sell you a car.

I don't think, at this point in my life, I could drive anything else. But, if I purchased a new one, I'd not get rid of my old ones.

oilhammer said:

I don't think, at this point in my life, I could drive anything else. But, if I purchased a new one, I'd not get rid of my old ones.

Click to expand...

I biggest mistake I made was selling my 05, believe I have said that a number of times, the 13 Passat I had was a POS and this 13 wagon I cross my fingers every time I get into it

threeshot223 said:

It's too bad that, as much fun as these cars are to own/drive, the perception held by non-TDI folks is that these are nightmares to own and maintain.

Click to expand...

It's not a perception, it's a fact I have to say ....

For some folks the higher and unexpected maintenance bill will be justified, because either they do a lot of miles per year (so the savings in fuel and squeezing as much into the 5 years warranty as possible) or they simply don't care because they expense the cost through their business. For others, it doesn't make whole lot of sense .... in my opinion if you put only 20K kms per year (mostly short tripping) on the car and you privately own it, it doesn't make whole lot of sense, especially if you are just after MPG and comfort, because the savings in fuel are very low and the comfort can be had elsewhere for less money long term. I personally bought the car for the power/torque, handling and build ... MPG was bonus, but never part of the fundamental equation.

An enthusiast, who actually can sense handling and steering feedback has it a bit more difficult, because there's not many cars under 35K CAD with the characteristics of VW, but better reliability. The new Mazda seems to be an exception and I am glad to have a look at. Ford Focus is a strech ... after then it goes quickly down hill for variety of reasons whether it's reliability, build or purchasing cost.

mxs said:

I don't think you can make such a clear cut conclusion. Certainly, not everyone's DPF filter is prematurely faulty and needs a replacement as mine did. Many variables will play into that.

Perhaps the cars do not like 80% city driving, but VW didn't tell me that at the time of purchase. They claimed the car is great doesn't matter where you drive it. What about other parts failing under warranty and contributing to this failure .... I am on my 3rd exhaust flapper .... could that have something to do with that, perhaps.

Click to expand...

as you mentioned, driving patterns play a huge part.
id be willing to bet your dpf issues are primarily related to your drive cycle. which is a shame, but to some extent the nature of the beast for the newer soot regulated diesels.

im at ~35k miles on my '13 jsw, and having similar thoughts as yours about how long i plan on keeping it now that ive moved away from a 30 minute steady state highway commute to a short stop/go city one. another year or two of this sort of use and i wouldnt expect the aftertreatment to last much longer. and i dont want to be stuck holding the bill when it all goes south.

after all the problems the cars create, stress and monetary wise.... 05's oil pump, glo plugs, torque converter, alt pulley, I'm sure I forgot a few things...and the newer TDI nightmares, of course there are exceptions in all cases but in the end the newer gassers will prove to be a lot less expensive in the long run, my opinion. my brothers Cruise is getting close to 40 on the hwy. My brother-in-law's 13 Jetta S model stick is getting close to the same, believe he has the 2.5L, so he says?

I was tempted to try the Cruze, but after reading few quality reviews, it's simply no much as far steering feedback and handling. Even though it makes more power, the torque comes higher up in RPM so it doesn't feel like more power when you drive. plus I don't think I want another diesel, if I am getting after all rid of this one.

The one thing about driving style .... it does make sense and it doesn't.

Firstly, VW doesn't exactly say that the car is not suitable for short tripping in North America. I say NA because, 70% of Europe drives diesels and short trip as well and generally doesn't have this kind of maintenance cost concerns (yes the price difference between diesel and gas helps more the diesel cause there). At least, in my family they don't. So, I really believe that, the root cause is short tripping AND quality of North American diesel fuel. Essentially, it's junk when compared to Europe. That has to have something to do with these kind of issues, or am I wrong here?

Maybe VW should have done, what Mazda has done (or not done) with their Skyactive Diesel. I was told that its launch in NA is indefinitely postponed because they have trouble meeting the emmison regs, without significantly compromising their system design used elsewhere in the world. The only thing different is fuel .... the drivers, styles are comparable. Makes you wonder ...

afarfalla said:

my brothers Cruise is getting close to 40 on the hwy. My brother-in-law's 13 Jetta S model stick is getting close to the same, believe he has the 2.5L, so he says?

Click to expand...

No way ... the old 2.5L is horrible on gas.

Depressing thread indeed. As a VDub owner of a 2007 Jetta with the 2.0L turbo gas motor, I have been looking at getting a TDI for years and now, as I am trying to sell my car and deciding whether to go with the 06 or 09 Jetta, I'm second-guessing my decision to sell the thing.

By the way, I rented a Cruze a few months ago and actually I thought it was a good car. I felt that the build quality and finish of the interior was good and the car was enjoyable to drive for a week. If I could buy a new car right now I would consider that, along with the Mazda3. I may lease a new car instead, but I am a bit hesitant to do that just now.

mxs, I am sad to hear about the relationship you and your Golf have had lately, and disappointed in VW's handling of your situation.

I was finally able to track a full tank on my 13, worked out to 39.6, 70% hwy, the Escape Ecoboost I'm looking at should return right at 30mpg under the same circumstances, I don't feel the aggravation is worth 9 mpg

Haha, the new Escape will give new meaning to the word "aggravation" The poster child for recalls and TSBs... even worse than the Focus!