romad
Top Post Dawg
Has anyone used this kit: http://tinyurl.com/yadxd7hn
LED lights in Hella E-codes
- Thread starter romad
- Start date
Intech
Veteran Member
I know that you’re asking a question, and I’m sure that you’ll get a number of responses. So while the post is on LED’s, I’d like to add my own questions, and I’m definitely NOT trying to hijack your post. My apology, if you think I am. Just curiosity on my part. I’m not and LED fan, the ones that were on the car, when I got it, looked “cool”, but were useless when needed at night. I actually drove over someone’s lawn, going to work at 3 AM, because I didn’t see where the road ended and made a turn. I’ve since corrected all my lighting issues, and am very satisfied with what I have. However, I’m curious, after my LED experience, what is the distance down the road that is illuminated to safely drive at most legal speeds? Also, what is the peripheral illumination, on both sides, so as to be able to see wildlife, before they step into the roadway?
romad
Top Post Dawg
Those are good questions, in fact they cover what I was thinking about when I posted my question. I've seen a photo of the kit used in 7" round Cibie E-codes, but wanted to know about use in the Hellas used in my Jetta.
For CA I found this:
2016 California Code Vehicle Code - VEH
DIVISION 12 - EQUIPMENT OF VEHICLES
CHAPTER 2 - Lighting Equipment
ARTICLE 2 - Headlamps and Auxiliary Lamps
Section 24400.
(b) A motor vehicle, ... shall be operated during darkness, or inclement weather, or both, with at least two lighted headlamps that comply with subdivision (a).
(c) As used in subdivision (b), inclement weather is a weather condition that is either of the following:
(1) A condition that prevents a driver of a motor vehicle from clearly discerning a person or another motor vehicle on the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet.
Section 24409. Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated during darkness, the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to the following requirements and limitations:
(a) Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, he shall use a distribution of light or composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver.
The lowermost distribution of light specified in this article shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times regardless of road contour.
(b) Whenever the driver of a vehicle follows another vehicle within 300 feet to the rear, he shall use the lowermost distribution of light specified in this article.
So if we take the "inclement weather" as a minimum (in the absence of other vehicles being closer) then for California it is 1,000 ft (305 meters).
And here are Arizona's requirements:
28-922. Lighted lamps required
At any time from sunset to sunrise and at any other time when there is not sufficient light to render clearly discernible persons and vehicles on the highway at a distance of five hundred feet ahead, a vehicle on a highway in this state shall display lighted lamps and illuminating devices as required by this article for different classes of vehicles, subject to exceptions for parked vehicles as provided in this article.
28-923. Visibility distance; mounted height of lamps
A. If a requirement is provided in this article as to the distance from which certain lamps and devices shall render objects visible or within which the lamps or devices shall be visible, the provisions apply during the times stated in section 28-922 with respect to a vehicle without a load when on a straight, level and unlighted highway under normal atmospheric conditions unless a different time or condition is expressly provided.
B. If a requirement is provided in this article for the mounted height of lamps or devices it means from the center of the lamp or device to the level ground on which the vehicle stands when the vehicle is without a load.
Unfortunately, the links I found for PA, gave me error messages.
As for side illumination, IIRC, that is more a result of the housing and/or reflector in it. From what I've read, e-codes are better at this than DOT-compliant units.
For CA I found this:
2016 California Code Vehicle Code - VEH
DIVISION 12 - EQUIPMENT OF VEHICLES
CHAPTER 2 - Lighting Equipment
ARTICLE 2 - Headlamps and Auxiliary Lamps
Section 24400.
(b) A motor vehicle, ... shall be operated during darkness, or inclement weather, or both, with at least two lighted headlamps that comply with subdivision (a).
(c) As used in subdivision (b), inclement weather is a weather condition that is either of the following:
(1) A condition that prevents a driver of a motor vehicle from clearly discerning a person or another motor vehicle on the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet.
Section 24409. Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated during darkness, the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to the following requirements and limitations:
(a) Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, he shall use a distribution of light or composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver.
The lowermost distribution of light specified in this article shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times regardless of road contour.
(b) Whenever the driver of a vehicle follows another vehicle within 300 feet to the rear, he shall use the lowermost distribution of light specified in this article.
So if we take the "inclement weather" as a minimum (in the absence of other vehicles being closer) then for California it is 1,000 ft (305 meters).
And here are Arizona's requirements:
28-922. Lighted lamps required
At any time from sunset to sunrise and at any other time when there is not sufficient light to render clearly discernible persons and vehicles on the highway at a distance of five hundred feet ahead, a vehicle on a highway in this state shall display lighted lamps and illuminating devices as required by this article for different classes of vehicles, subject to exceptions for parked vehicles as provided in this article.
28-923. Visibility distance; mounted height of lamps
A. If a requirement is provided in this article as to the distance from which certain lamps and devices shall render objects visible or within which the lamps or devices shall be visible, the provisions apply during the times stated in section 28-922 with respect to a vehicle without a load when on a straight, level and unlighted highway under normal atmospheric conditions unless a different time or condition is expressly provided.
B. If a requirement is provided in this article for the mounted height of lamps or devices it means from the center of the lamp or device to the level ground on which the vehicle stands when the vehicle is without a load.
Unfortunately, the links I found for PA, gave me error messages.
As for side illumination, IIRC, that is more a result of the housing and/or reflector in it. From what I've read, e-codes are better at this than DOT-compliant units.
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Intech
Veteran Member
It’s funny that you mentioned Cibie’ 7” round e-codes, because I used them and the square ones for years, preferring them to the Z-beams. In fact I still have 2 complete sets of the smaller square, four light set-up in my shed.I went to Cibie’ after my Amplilux lights were broken by some flying rocks, and then I found out that they were no longer available in the US.In fact, right now, I have Cibie’ 175 driving lights and Cibie’ 195 fogs on my Jetta
romad
Top Post Dawg
I still have the Cibié BOBI 7" x 6" units I used in my 1983 VW Rabbit Diesel Pickup. At one time I thought about getting another one, so I saved the lights.
Intech
Veteran Member
I never used the BOBI's, but I was told that they were a direct replacement for the stock sealed beams
romad
Top Post Dawg
Yes, they had a bulb "pocket" at the back of the glass housing. You would insert the H4 bulb into it. That way the reflector was protected against dirt, moisture, etc. from entering via the bulb hole on standard e-codes.
RexNICO
Veteran Member
Subscribing ... interested in this topic.
Intech
Veteran Member
I'll try to answer any questions that you may have. I've been interested in automotive lighting since the sixties, when I lived in Germany for a while, and saw their lights, and what a dramatic improvement over ours here stateside, and what caused the difference.
RexNICO
Veteran Member
My interest is around LED discussions, as I'm not sure they provide better "down the road" illumination. I can't argue with them being brighter, but I think there's a difference between brightness and visibility.
I'm sure there's a vernacular for the topic, I'm just not sure what the right words are - candle power, lumens, watts??
bobbiemartin
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2012
- Location
- Jacksonville, FL
- TDI
- 2010 Tiguan TDI 4Motion, Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD
You can't put different type bulbs in a light designed for halogen bulbs and expect it to work properly. It's all explained here.
romad
Top Post Dawg
That was accurate with the original LED bulb designs, but they have come a LONG way since then. Originally the LED bulbs used only had LED chips on the front so very little light went to the sides/circumference toward the reflectors. Now the LED is designed to simulate H4 design with high beam chip positioning, low beam chip positioning, and the inclusion of a shield. See this comparison:
Now that said, I started this to see if anyone had used the new designed bulbs in the e-codes used in the Mark 4 Jetta, and how they worked.
EDIT: Here is a review of the H4-HLV4 kit from a VW user:
Name
Hector
Reviewed On
02/17/17
Very satisfied with customer service and the bulbs
The bulbs are very easy to install in my 2000 Jetta with E-codes, and they light up the road so much better than with the Sylvanias that are almost the same price. One of them had a D.O.A. high beam, and the replacement arrives a few days later. Extremely happy overall.
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GoFaster
Moderator at Large
Yes, the LED bulbs have gotten much better (I have some in my current car and two of my motorcycles). The light emission from an LED on the front and back of a flat plane is closer to what's obtained from a filament, but not identical - notably, the filament emits light 360 degrees around itself, and an LED on the front and back of a flat plate will emit more out the faces of the flat plate and almost nothing out to the edges. Whether this matters or not, depends on the design of the optics around it. A lot of them nowadays allow the LED element to be oriented towards a direction where it matters less - this is possible with an H7 (single element) but not with an H4.
It seems like there are about 5 or 6 designs of these, which are in turn sold under countless different brand names.
One of my bikes originally used two 35 watt H1 bulbs (similar to H4 but less power) which were about as effective as holding a candle in front of the bike. Weak charging system meant installing H4 was not possible, too much current draw. LED H4 replacements now actually make night riding pleasant, and they only draw 20 watts each, so the charging system has no issue with it. Beam pattern wasn't perfect, but it was lousy even with the original bulbs.
It seems like there are about 5 or 6 designs of these, which are in turn sold under countless different brand names.
One of my bikes originally used two 35 watt H1 bulbs (similar to H4 but less power) which were about as effective as holding a candle in front of the bike. Weak charging system meant installing H4 was not possible, too much current draw. LED H4 replacements now actually make night riding pleasant, and they only draw 20 watts each, so the charging system has no issue with it. Beam pattern wasn't perfect, but it was lousy even with the original bulbs.
romad
Top Post Dawg
Brian, according to the installation instructions for the HL-HV4 & 5, they are supposed to be adjustable for beam pattern.
Intech
Veteran Member
Cibie' uses "reflective" range, on a 1" square piece of highly reflective material. As an example, the 175 clear DL, with the 100W bulb, is 6000'. You'd have to see them to actually see what they illuminate, and how far down the road they do that
romad
Top Post Dawg
Brian,
If I understand the construction of a standard H4 bulb (as shown in the comparison graphic, the low beam filament light can only reach about 180 to 270 degrees around the reflector and lens as the shield blocks the remainder. However, the high beam filament isn't shielded so its light goes a true 360 degrees. Am I right? If so, perhaps the LED's "edge light" is not as critical for one of them?
SilverGhost
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2005
- Location
- Back in So Flo - St Lucie
- TDI
- '05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
I have a kit H7 in the high beams of my Tiguan. They are LED bulbs that claim to have positioned the diodes to match the halogen filaments. My results on these are they do wonders of getting peoples' attention when I flash them, but the halogen low beams out distance them.
But they do spray light all over, so they do wonderful on wooded back roads and off road. Works to see hanging branches and critters along the sides of the road.
I'm sure someone out there has done a good job with LED drop in bulbs, but at $80 a set someone else can be the guinea pig until we find them.
Jason
But they do spray light all over, so they do wonderful on wooded back roads and off road. Works to see hanging branches and critters along the sides of the road.
I'm sure someone out there has done a good job with LED drop in bulbs, but at $80 a set someone else can be the guinea pig until we find them.
Jason
romad
Top Post Dawg
Jason, does your Tiguan have E-code or DOT headlight assemblies?
SilverGhost
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2005
- Location
- Back in So Flo - St Lucie
- TDI
- '05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Pretty sure is has DOT.
I know the DOT pattern, in general, sucks and there is not really a cut off to speak of. My dad's Beetle had a headlight replaced when they were stationed in Germany and the pattern was HUGELY different (OEM HID). I was spoiled by my Golf having good pattern even though DOT. Wife's Tiggy isn't horrid but there is room for improvement. My daily is a '02 Jetta with cheap bulbs. Definition of bad headlamps!
I have played around with a few used headlamps and the newer urethane sealed ones are near impossible to open up un-damaged. Kinda put a damper on my plan to install HID or LED projector kits in the stock housings.
Jason
I know the DOT pattern, in general, sucks and there is not really a cut off to speak of. My dad's Beetle had a headlight replaced when they were stationed in Germany and the pattern was HUGELY different (OEM HID). I was spoiled by my Golf having good pattern even though DOT. Wife's Tiggy isn't horrid but there is room for improvement. My daily is a '02 Jetta with cheap bulbs. Definition of bad headlamps!
I have played around with a few used headlamps and the newer urethane sealed ones are near impossible to open up un-damaged. Kinda put a damper on my plan to install HID or LED projector kits in the stock housings.
Jason
coalminer16
Top Post Dawg
Led is 100% dependent on optics. Good lights of the optical side is correct. Less watts means less fuel at the end of the day or more power for more lights.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
romad
Top Post Dawg
Preaching to the choir, I see.
On another note, I see by your sig you have an '81 Rabbit Pickup. Did the '81s have 7" round headlights or the 6" x 7" rectangular ones like those that were on my '83 Rabbit Pickup Diesel?
I still have the Cibiés I used in it.
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coalminer16
Top Post Dawg
Mine both have the square. Brothers 80 truck also has square even though it is a different grill set up. I like the look of the round.
Father has led in his Harley. They are nice and don't break like we have seen some of the others do after 50k miles. I have some really nice custom LEDs in my garden tractor as well. Whole forum threads on that for the tractor LEDs. If a light is designed well they are great. But they are too easy to make poorly.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Father has led in his Harley. They are nice and don't break like we have seen some of the others do after 50k miles. I have some really nice custom LEDs in my garden tractor as well. Whole forum threads on that for the tractor LEDs. If a light is designed well they are great. But they are too easy to make poorly.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk