www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI 101

TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 8th, 2015, 13:23   #1
Cobrargc
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midwest
TDI(s): 2013 Jetta
Exclamation Possible blown head gasket

So does anyone now what kind of uphill battle I'm going to be in with VW in regards to a blown head gasket due to intercooler icing? Hopefully its just a head gasket and not a cracked block.

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/y...psa9283a2a.jpg

I've got 11K miles on my '13. An earlier thread mentions that I started my diesel after it had sat overnight in the garage following a long trip in cold weather. It turned over very slowly and at first I thought I might have left something on and ran the battery dead.

I checked the oil immediately after I was tipped off about the icing from another user on this forum. The oil looked fine after the initial start. Today I drove it for 5 miles to see if would run OK. It ran fine. I drove it long enough to get the engine up to temp and the cooling system under pressure. The photo shows what the dipstick looked like after the I allowed the engine to cool down.
Cobrargc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9th, 2015, 11:33   #2
Tom W.
Veteran Member
 
Tom W.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Fuel Economy: Getta 49MPG IDI 60MPG Passat 34mpg
Default no worries

I cannot imaging that you will have any issues w VW about this. You are waaaaaay within the warranty
__________________
Chemically cleaning your turbo: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=48

canadiangrizzly's Diagnosing limp mode: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=179589

GoFaster on loss of power:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=75959
Tom W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9th, 2015, 14:37   #3
Windex
Veteran Member
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cambridge
Fuel Economy: ʎɯouoɔƎ lǝnℲ
Default

Some "milkshake" is not out of the ordinary on a dipstick on a lightly driven car. There are a couple of coolant passages close to oil galleries in your engine, but none that would likely be affected by water intrusion. More likely would be to bend a rod.

5 miles is also not enough to boil off condensed water like that.

Take the car for a long highway drive and then recheck the dipstick. You will find that the condensation has either gone (no issue) or that it has stayed (leaking HG).

My money is on it just being normal condensation.
__________________

Proudly installing things where they're not supposed to go since 1996!
Windex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 10:57   #4
Cobrargc
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midwest
TDI(s): 2013 Jetta
Default

VW just told me the engine is fine and there isn't any water in the crankcase. They also told me that the creamy stuff on the dipstick is condensation, but I am not buying that. My garage is 60 degrees. This is a typical summer time low when a vehicle is outside. It's not like I started it up at -5 degrees and took it for a short drive. The engine was at 60 degrees to start with and ran for 45 minutes.

They are going to install the intercooler upgrade on Wednesday.

There was no mention of them changing the oil. This is good because I plan to pull a sample and send it off for analysis. I also want to have a reputable third party check the cooling system for a leaks. If there's any substantial glycol found in the oil sample, I will get VOA involved.

I'm curious as to their explanation for the hard start. Do they believe it in fact was a deicing issue or are they just doing it because I threw down a printed copy of the "intercooler icing" thread I'd printed? I have a lot of questions to ask them when I pick the car up.
Cobrargc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 11:35   #5
Ol'Rattler
Veteran Member
 
Ol'Rattler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marysville, Wa.
Default

Sounds like you have your panties twisted.

Intercooler iceing has nothing to do with moisture in the oil. In winter, the 60 degree garage might setting you up for intercooler iceing. What happens is because the engine is above freezing and then you go out side were it is freezing, you get condensation from the warm moist air that is in your intake tract. Might explain the milky oil, as well.

Do you drive a lot of very short trips? Moisture in the oil may be be because of that. The slow start may have been related to intercooler iceing, so the TSB might fix that.

Unless they can duplicate it, don't expect them to understand the slow start issue. Wouldn't hurt to stop expecting to find a bad guy at your dealer and just work with them.
__________________
2006 Jetta TDI
5 speed, Manufactured 06/06
DC stage 1 SMF Clutch
Draw-Tite hitch
Dash Tray
Blue tint aspherical mirrors
Euro Cupholder
Euro Light Switch
2nd grocery hook
VCDS Hacks: DRL Disabled-Seatbelt Chime Disabled-Key fob Power Windows
Adjusted Cam to Crank Timing

Last edited by Ol'Rattler; February 10th, 2015 at 12:00.
Ol'Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 11:41   #6
Vince Waldon
Veteran Member
 
Vince Waldon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post

My money is on it just being normal condensation.
Sorry OP but I gotta agree.

On the other hand, oil analysis looking specifically for coolant as opposed to simple water is a reasonable next step if you really want to dig in.
__________________
Vince Waldon Edmonton AB Canada

Note: The above is to the best of my knowledge- but at the end of the day simply interweb opinion, worth EXACTLY what you paid for it, and if used done so at your own risk.
Vince Waldon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 12:24   #7
Cobrargc
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midwest
TDI(s): 2013 Jetta
Default

Yes I do kind of have my panties in a twist. I think most people would under the circumstances.

Is it safe to say the no start or no crank was due to the icing? If so, the water that entered the cylinders caused a hydrolock condition that prevented the engine from turning over correct? Where would this melted water have gone? The exhaust valves don't open until after TDC. A cranking engine does not have the ability to compress water.

I'm not as concerned with simple moisture in the oil. What concerns me is the forced engine start damaging the head gasket and allowing the coolant a direct path into the crankcase.

This vehicle is used only for vacations and trips out of town. I've never used it for trips to and from work or the store. The dealership said I have about 1000 miles on the September '14 oil change they did. Again, I checked the dipstick immediately following the hard start. It was clean. The contamination on the dipstick was after my first drive with it. I think the no start-hard start combined with the contamination on the dipstick was a major red flag for me.

Would anything other than an icing hydrolock condition have caused the engine not to turn over? I assume the dealership would have load tested the battery to see if it was good. The car does a fair amount of sitting and this isn't good for batteries.

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.
Cobrargc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 12:28   #8
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Why do you keep pointing to a head gasket??? That is probably not at all a possibility.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 12:45   #9
LogicBomb
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
TDI(s): 2014 Passat
Default

The oil itself looks fine, it looks like a little condensation mixed with some residual oil at the top of the stick? Nothing to be overly alarmed about IMO. Also, a head gasket would/should have affected the oil in the pan, which is clearly shown to be clean....
__________________

LogicBomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 15:11   #10
ATR
Veteran Member
 
ATR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Baltimore
Default

Yes! Definitely get the oil tested on the next oil change:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

In the meantime keep a close eye on the oil.
__________________
Drivers Wanted
-2011 Golf TDI 6MT = gone but not forgotten!
-2017 Golf GTI Sport 6MT

***Official maintenance schedule for your VW [PDFs inside]***
ATR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 16:33   #11
red16vdub
Veteran Member
 
red16vdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: (617) City of CHAMPIONS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
Some "milkshake" is not out of the ordinary on a dipstick on a lightly driven car. There are a couple of coolant passages close to oil galleries in your engine, but none that would likely be affected by water intrusion. More likely would be to bend a rod.

5 miles is also not enough to boil off condensed water like that.

Take the car for a long highway drive and then recheck the dipstick. You will find that the condensation has either gone (no issue) or that it has stayed (leaking HG).

My money is on it just being normal condensation.
I have to agree with this ^^^. My mk3 used to do this for the first 50k when it was new, Car still running today with 189k on the clock and the only change to motor was a reman starter.
__________________
Mk1 Gti /scIROCco 16v /A6 quattro sport / Mk4 TDI JSW 5spd
17/56 turbo, RC ASV-5+ @ 28psi, 3 Bar Map, 11mm IP, PD Lift Pump, R520's, McNally boost/egt, Euro FIS full screen Cluster, PD 150 Intake/racepipe, PD 150 plastic T.I.P + R32 maf air mods, Kerma 2.5" Fmic, Kerma 3"T-B exhaust/resonator/ Aero turbine muffler, SBC stage 3 Endurance, GLi brakes F/R , GLi axles, H&R Bilstein sports cup kit.
red16vdub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 16:34   #12
Windex
Veteran Member
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cambridge
Fuel Economy: ʎɯouoɔƎ lǝnℲ
Default

These vehicles are not an optimal solution for short trips.

1000mi since September - if accurate, do yourself a favor - drive the car more, or trade it in for a camry - gas or hybrid.

Short trips create condensation in internal combustion vehicles - no two ways about it.

<-source - career car and heavy truck/diesel mechanic

As above, water ingestion does not force anything into the crankcase - that doesn't happen. Hard to believe you're not concerned with condensation in the oil when that's the picture you linked.

Has the coolant level gone down at all?
__________________

Proudly installing things where they're not supposed to go since 1996!
Windex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 16:46   #13
Curious Chris
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Minneapolis MN
Fuel Economy: 47/42/38
Default

I purposely never get a job too close to where I live. Right now it is pretty short at 17 miles but it is freeway miles and the engine is fully warm when I make the turn onto the south interstate which is the last 12 miles.

Yes 1000 miles since September buy a Leaf.

I am putting on about 12,000 miles a year and I am 268,500 miles
Curious Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2015, 17:52   #14
ATR
Veteran Member
 
ATR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Baltimore
Default

In case you missed it he did say that the car was only used for long trips...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobrargc View Post
Yes I do kind of have my panties in a twist. I think most people would under the circumstances.

Is it safe to say the no start or no crank was due to the icing? If so, the water that entered the cylinders caused a hydrolock condition that prevented the engine from turning over correct? Where would this melted water have gone? The exhaust valves don't open until after TDC. A cranking engine does not have the ability to compress water.

I'm not as concerned with simple moisture in the oil. What concerns me is the forced engine start damaging the head gasket and allowing the coolant a direct path into the crankcase.

This vehicle is used only for vacations and trips out of town. I've never used it for trips to and from work or the store. The dealership said I have about 1000 miles on the September '14 oil change they did. Again, I checked the dipstick immediately following the hard start. It was clean. The contamination on the dipstick was after my first drive with it. I think the no start-hard start combined with the contamination on the dipstick was a major red flag for me.

Would anything other than an icing hydrolock condition have caused the engine not to turn over? I assume the dealership would have load tested the battery to see if it was good. The car does a fair amount of sitting and this isn't good for batteries.

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.
__________________
Drivers Wanted
-2011 Golf TDI 6MT = gone but not forgotten!
-2017 Golf GTI Sport 6MT

***Official maintenance schedule for your VW [PDFs inside]***
ATR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2015, 04:07   #15
Windex
Veteran Member
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cambridge
Fuel Economy: ʎɯouoɔƎ lǝnℲ
Default

1000 miles since September? Wrong car for the application.
__________________

Proudly installing things where they're not supposed to go since 1996!
Windex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
blown head gasket or other? rustytigwire TDI 101 11 June 5th, 2012 08:23
Help, I think I may have blown my head gasket vonbuj TDI 101 6 January 18th, 2012 08:13
Blown head gasket?? tdiology VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 4 May 13th, 2011 14:59
What Does A Blown Head Gasket Look Like? jammcm17 VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 7 July 15th, 2010 04:38
blown head gasket?? secretofnims VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 9 June 17th, 2009 16:05


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19005 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 134.30 Kb. compressed to 112.67 Kb. by saving 21.63 Kb. (16.11%)]