DSG Launch Control

districtdave

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Washington DC
TDI
CUP DSG
Have any of you used the launch control feature? I've read about it in the manual and even tried it a few times but I get the sense that something is not right. The clutch is engaged before I release the brakes and the engine feels bogged down. I've tried it in S mode and manual both with trac control off. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
 

tdiatlast

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Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Have any of you used the launch control feature? I've read about it in the manual and even tried it a few times but I get the sense that something is not right. The clutch is engaged before I release the brakes and the engine feels bogged down. I've tried it in S mode and manual both with trac control off. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
Launch control is not available in the TDI DSG. Where did you read it?
 

curovo

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Nov 21, 2009
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Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Launch control is not available in the TDI DSG. Where did you read it?
It's in my 2009 owner's manual and does not say that it only applies to gas motors. I, like OP and probably a lot of others, found that out the hard way.
 

JSWTDI09

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Las Vegas, Nevada
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2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
It's in my 2009 owner's manual and does not say that it only applies to gas motors. I, like OP and probably a lot of others, found that out the hard way.
Welcome to the wonderful world of VW owner's manuals. VW makes one manual for all Jettas (or Golfs) and they tend to list all options that CAN be available. Not all options are available on all cars, but they do not bother to tell you which options are included in which cars. It can be very confusing. VW owner's manuals are notoriously bad. It's just the way it is.

Have Fun!

Don
 

UHF

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Mar 3, 2003
Location
Colorado Springs, Co
TDI
2010 DSG JSW
I have the HPA motor sport tuning in my DSG. They put LC in the tune, but it is not working. They are looking into it right now. What I figured so far was that the steps to use it were to disable skid control, place the car in S or M, tap the brakes twice, then while holding the brake, you can free reve the motor to the desired RPM to launch. This is NOT power braking as LC is not supposed to load the engine like power braking. It should rev to about 2300 or so RPM. When I power brake, it loads the engine to 1,500 for about 2 seconds and then pulls power from the car. Definitely not LC. What I was told from HPA was that the above procedure, tapping the brake twice, disabling ESP, etc, will disengage the hill holding function on the automatic trans. I didn't know what the hill holding function was till last month. I just got back from the UK where I drove a rental UK TDI DSG Jetta. Our cars do not have hill holding! That is probably the issue. DSG tuning for European cars is somehow different than ours. This what I think they are trying to work on. Even with Malone II tuning, there is now off the line go with the DSG. I want LC bad.
 

MonsterTDI09

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Jul 3, 2009
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NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
I have the HPA motor sport tuning in my DSG. They put LC in the tune, but it is not working. They are looking into it right now. What I figured so far was that the steps to use it were to disable skid control, place the car in S or M, tap the brakes twice, then while holding the brake, you can free reve the motor to the desired RPM to launch. This is NOT power braking as LC is not supposed to load the engine like power braking. It should rev to about 2300 or so RPM. When I power brake, it loads the engine to 1,500 for about 2 seconds and then pulls power from the car. Definitely not LC. What I was told from HPA was that the above procedure, tapping the brake twice, disabling ESP, etc, will disengage the hill holding function on the automatic trans. I didn't know what the hill holding function was till last month. I just got back from the UK where I drove a rental UK TDI DSG Jetta. Our cars do not have hill holding! That is probably the issue. DSG tuning for European cars is somehow different than ours. This what I think they are trying to work on. Even with Malone II tuning, there is now off the line go with the DSG. I want LC bad.
Our DSG cars do have hill hold.Starting in 11 M/6 has hill hold to.TDI doesn't need L/C, because they are not 1/4 cars they are highway cars.
 

tdiatlast

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Jan 21, 2009
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2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Our DSG cars do have hill hold.Starting in 11 M/6 has hill hold to.TDI doesn't need L/C, because they are not 1/4 cars they are highway cars.
+1. I still don't understand why anyone would want to challenge/abuse their $$$$$ DSG. To each his/her own, I guess. Keeps the repair shops open!
 

curovo

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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Our DSG cars do have hill hold.Starting in 11 M/6 has hill hold to.TDI doesn't need L/C, because they are not 1/4 cars they are highway cars.
I get really, really, tired of being honked while I'm waiting for an extra long gap so I can pull out into traffic. LC would overcome that; as it is I use the hill holder, but as I use it more and more I'm getting a little uneasy about how much extra clutch wear I may be creating.

I test drove a 2.5L DSG Jetta last week and found out what the DSG should feel like. The TDI acts just like the gas motor except that the TDI is in slow motion; the 2.5's barely-noticeable delay between stepping on the gas and clutch engagement is magnified in the TDI into an excessive lag that I have to remember and compensate for every time I pull into traffic.

Personally though, I don't necessarily want LC: I'd be happy if the clutch engaged off idle like the European Jetta TDIs. It's got plenty of torque if I can have the torque when I ask for it instead of a second later... like in the European Jetta TDIs and the gas Jetta.
 

tdiatlast

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2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Curovo, check out RCNaylor's post of a few months ago re: excessive DSG delay. He also complained of excessive delay...more than normal, and I believe it was resolved with an ECU update (?).
After 60k miles plus driving my DSGs, I have no fear pulling out across traffic. Point and squirt...it goes. Do I need an extra long gap? I don't think so, but maybe I've just compensated, but I never get honked at.
 

curovo

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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Curovo, check out RCNaylor's post of a few months ago re: excessive DSG delay. He also complained of excessive delay...more than normal, and I believe it was resolved with an ECU update (?).
After 60k miles plus driving my DSGs, I have no fear pulling out across traffic. Point and squirt...it goes. Do I need an extra long gap? I don't think so, but maybe I've just compensated, but I never get honked at.
Mine drives exactly the way VW programmed it: point and squirt... wait a second... it goes. I regularly drive several other cars and the TDI most definitely needs an extra-large gap. It's been discussed to death and back again in other topics, including rcnaylor's.

My intent in posting here wasn't to start another discussion of whether or not it happens or what to do about it, but just to point out why some people want a reflash. Maybe OP does want to drag race, I don't know; but some of us just want to improve the drivability.
 

JM Popaleetus

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Location
Connecticut
TDI
Signature.
Mine drives exactly the way VW programmed it: point and squirt... wait a second... it goes. I regularly drive several other cars and the TDI most definitely needs an extra-large gap. It's been discussed to death and back again in other topics, including rcnaylor's.
Compared to the WRX and heavily modified GTP in my family, no the TDI does not have an instant pedal response. That said, I have NEVER felt the need to compensate when driving our TDI. I would even go as far as to say that for a commuter car, especially when using the pedal's downshift "click", the TDI's throttle response is fantastic.

Like most European cars, if you're having throttle problems with the DBW system, go to the dealership and have them reflash and reset your DSG. Our cars learn the way you drive, and if you often slowly accelerate, it will start to think it's your preferred way of driving.
 

Fixmy59bug

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Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
I test drove a 2.5L DSG Jetta last week and found out what the DSG should feel like.
No you didn't.

The 2.5 does not come with a DSG. What you drove was a 2.5 with a regular 6 speed auto with a torque convertor.

Which is why it drove exactly as you expected. The engine was never decoupled from the trans as it is in the DSG.
 

curovo

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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Compared to the WRX and heavily modified GTP in my family, no the TDI does not have an instant pedal response. That said, I have NEVER felt the need to compensate when driving our TDI. I would even go as far as to say that for a commuter car, especially when using the pedal's downshift "click", the TDI's throttle response is fantastic.

Like most European cars, if you're having throttle problems with the DBW system, go to the dealership and have them reflash and reset your DSG. Our cars learn the way you drive, and if you often slowly accelerate, it will start to think it's your preferred way of driving.
Unless and until someone proves to me otherwise, I maintain that on a WOT launch the North American DSG is programmed to engage the clutch at 2000 rpm. The 2.5L did the same thing, the difference being that the gas motor revved to 2K so quickly that the delay was only detectable because I was looking for it - it was flat-out quick off the line. The TDI revs so much more slowly, whether it's turbo lag or just the nature of a Diesel, that there's a full second delay between hitting the accelerator and the clutch engaging. It did it when the car was new, does exactly the same after 2.5 years and 34K miles, acts exactly the same as 2010 and 2011 TDI DSGs I test drove and as vehicles in numerous YouTube videos, and has survived two DSG resets, one by disconnecting the battery & the other by VCDS, without one iota of difference.

The kick-down button makes no difference that I can detect in any circumstances.

If there's anyone around the Sacramento CA area who claims their DSG acts differently, I'd love to meet and do a hands-on comparison.

HPA Motorsports said they've been lots of complaints about this issue and they're working on it specifically. Unfortunately they haven't come out with anything yet.

And now, since I've been trash-talking my TDI pretty badly lately, here's something I absolutely love about my SportWagen:





I didn't even have to lay the back seats down until we made the second stop for the tomato cages... :D
 

curovo

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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
No you didn't.

The 2.5 does not come with a DSG. What you drove was a 2.5 with a regular 6 speed auto with a torque convertor.

Which is why it drove exactly as you expected. The engine was never decoupled from the trans as it is in the DSG.
Then on WOT launch from a standing start, how could it rev to 2000 rpm before engaging... whatever it was it engaged?
 

MonsterTDI09

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TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
Take the car in and have the DSG reflash and reset.Try this how long does the car sit there when you let off the brake and starts to creep?
 

curovo

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Sacramento, CA
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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Take the car in and have the DSG reflash and reset.Try this how long does the car sit there when you let off the brake and starts to creep?
I'll hopefully get the 23H1/YI recall this & will ask them to reflash it then... they haven't been able to connect to the VW servers since last Wednesday (when I originally took it in) so who knows when that will be.


I keep the RPM between 2,000-2,700 before I punch it for a quick and clean merge.
How do you keep your rpm at 2,000-2,700 while you're sitting at a stop sign waiting for a break in traffic?
 

curovo

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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
Ah, yes, I forgot to state that I was slowly rolling along in 2nd gear.

But, from a full and complete stop (Idle, ~830 RPM), just punch it! Though I don't go all the way down, maybe about 80% of the way. As soon as the RPM hits 2,000, I shift to 2nd gear, as the RPM increases to ~2,300 the shift has taken place and the engine RPM has come down a bit while starting out in the next gear, 2nd.

P.S. I wish I had LC. Not that it really needs it, but what a fancy thing to have. Maybe then I can run 2k-2.7k RPM while at a standstill ;^)
When you punch it from a dead stop, does it not hesitate for a second or so while the engine revs to 2000 rpm, at which point the car takes off?
 

tdiatlast

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2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
When you punch it from a dead stop, does it not hesitate for a second or so while the engine revs to 2000 rpm, at which point the car takes off?
You have a problem with your car.

I've read your posts. I drove 3 hours today, 1 1/2 hours in bumper to bumper 5-10mph traffic. I tried my best to find the lag you describe, and it just isn't there. NO WAY my rpms rise to 2k rpm before engagement. In fact, the instant I release the brake pedal, the clutch is already allowing the car to creep forward. Mind you, the first 1/2 second of throttle input won't snap your neck, but in no way is it life-threatening, as RCNaylor so colorfully insisted.

I hope you get this resolved.
 

curovo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
You have a problem with your car.

I've read your posts. I drove 3 hours today, 1 1/2 hours in bumper to bumper 5-10mph traffic. I tried my best to find the lag you describe, and it just isn't there. NO WAY my rpms rise to 2k rpm before engagement. In fact, the instant I release the brake pedal, the clutch is already allowing the car to creep forward. Mind you, the first 1/2 second of throttle input won't snap your neck, but in no way is it life-threatening, as RCNaylor so colorfully insisted.

I hope you get this resolved.
lol, then the 2010 and 2011 TDI DSGs I test drove have the same problem. Yes, the car does start to creep forward as soon as I take my foot off the brake. The clutch isn't fully engaged at that point, and it isn't enough movement, for instance, for another driver at a stop sign to my right or left to perceive that I'm starting; on a hill it will roll backward at that stage. I don't consider that having "started up" - maybe I've been sloppy with my terminology - and the clutch isn't fully engaged, because the motor will rev without the car acclerating until a programmed rpm where the clutch finally engages. At OT, the rpm is about 2000 and the delay is about a second.

Check out this YouTube video for the DSG's behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBKis1NY_JA

Brake lights go off, car starts to creep while motor revs to 2K, after a perceptible delay the clutch engages and the car takes off. In the meantime the manual Jetta is gone... in a gas motor like this one the pause is barely perceptible, but it's there. In the slower-revving TDI, it would be a full second of "creep".
 
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tdiatlast

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Curovo, I appreciate your clear descriptions of your "lag", and I've tried mightily to duplicate it...full throttle launch from a standstill...

I have a confession to make. I am (almost) incapable of mashing the pedal to the floor. At age 56, I've just had too many thousands of miles under my belt to "abuse" (yeah, I know...I'm a wuss) any vehicle with an instantaneous full depression of the throttle.

That said, I tried it today...a few times. You're correct...there is more lag with this type of throttle input, very little forward movement, and RPMs do in fact rise to 2k before there's any real action. It was a bit scary, in fact, but no traffic around.

Then, I tried my "learned" version of driving with a DSG...rapid, but gentle, incremental fuel-feed, and guess what? Clutch seems fully engaged at about 1200-1400rpm, with a bit of controllable wheel-spin. The end result? This method will easily beat the "full-throttle" method off-the-line, and in fact, except for that split-second of clutch slip, is plenty fast.

I know I'm repeating what others have said in the several threads about DSG lag, but to try them back-to-back with full-throttle, the difference was amazing.

I tried this in my JSW, which had the mechatronic replaced (hard shifting) at 18k miles, now at 39k miles, with Revo chip (does EXACTLY as advertized...pulls to redline!) installed at about 25k miles. I'll try this same "test" later in my wife's stock sedan, with 24k miles.

Hope this helps clarify things.
 

That Guy

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Jan 23, 2009
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
TDI
2001 MKiv Golf TDI
My 09 GTI has this DSG lag too....but not all the time. (It was the last of the MK5s so it came with the TSI engine with the turbo...same engine that's in the new MK6's apparently.)

Just starting from a stop it sometimes takes a bit to get it going...almost have to floor it to get it to really kick in fast. But it's not something I like to do as when it does go, it goes!, and very suddenly. (This is just normal driving in D...not in S.) But as I stated above...it isn't always laggy. Sometimes just giving it a bit of pedal is good and there's no trouble. Personally I think it's the computer trying to figure out my driving style...kinda annoying.

So it's not just the TDIs with the DSG lag.:)
 

AndySRT

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cary il
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2010 cup car
The only time mine seems to do the 2000 rpm launch is in sport mode. I really have no problems with lag from my DSG at all.
 

curovo

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2009 JSW DSG, mostly sitting and waiting for the Dieslgate settlement - 2015 GSW S Manual
tdiatlast: I don't generally launch at sudden full throttle either - as you noted, it's counterproductive. I keep emphasizing it because that's where the behavior is most exaggerated. BUT, I find that the lag is always there, just not necessarily as apparent, no matter how I finesse it; I simply can't find any way to get the DSG going as quickly as my stick shifts. It's a daily annoyance at two spots in my commute where I often have to merge from a stop into fast-moving traffic, and at 4-way stop signs with impatient drivers looking for any opportunity to jump out ahead of everyone else.

MonsterTDI09: Got the 23H1/YI upgrade today; they checked the DSG programming & it was up to date so they didn't reflash it (they said they can't, it's up to VW's server). I haven't noticed any changes in driveability.
 
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