Official list of HPFP Failures

Golfcerto said:

If anyone can direct me to a good discussion on additives with more than just opinion but some technical information on how they work, I would really appreciate it.

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If you search around on this forum and Bob the oil guy there are many threads on additives. Most use optilube, as do I, because for the price it has very high lubricity. Very unlikely VW would void the warranty due to this.

turbovan+tdi said:

Additives won't help the HPFP issue, its an issue that only Bosch can resolve. If you keep the car, get a "2 micron" fuel filter system so when it happens again, and you have to pay, it won't cost you $7000+

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I disagree. Even though there is no hard proof that additives will 100% prevent HPFP failure, there have been very few failures reported in this thread which use additives 100% of the time. Poor lubricity is more likely than not to be a contributing factor to these failures, and a lubricity additive will improve the scar rating of the fuel.

A 2micron kit is a good idea though.

ticketed2much said:

I disagree. Even though there is no hard proof that additives will 100% prevent HPFP failure, there have been very few failures reported in this thread which use additives 100% of the time. Poor lubricity is more likely than not to be a contributing factor to these failures, and a lubricity additive will improve the scar rating of the fuel.

A 2micron kit is a good idea though.

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I respectively disagree right back at you,

People have posted up in the HPFP thread and a few are using additives. It sure doesn't hurt using them as most find a bit more power, smoother engines but using it to prevent a HPFP failure is the wrong reason.

All diesel has additives. You want high volume high cetane. Chevron, Shell, BP Amoco, etc...
There was a TSB a few years ago about additional additives, and yes VW does not recommend anything additional. The TSB did mention possible denying of warranty with "aftermarket" additives...
YMMV,
-BB

turbovan+tdi said:

I respectively disagree right back at you,

People have posted up in the HPFP thread and a few are using additives. It sure doesn't hurt using them as most find a bit more power, smoother engines but using it to prevent a HPFP failure is the wrong reason.

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Out of hundreds of HPFP failures about a dozen used additives, and I believe only one used optilube 100% of the time. Powerservice was used in a few but it does not do much for lubricity. To me that says something.

BleachedBora said:

All diesel has additives. You want high volume high cetane. Chevron, Shell, BP Amoco, etc...
There was a TSB a few years ago about additional additives, and yes VW does not recommend anything additional. The TSB did mention possible denying of warranty with "aftermarket" additives...
YMMV,

-BB

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VW is also testing the fuel now before performing the repair. If the lubricity is too low or the fuel has some water, they may not cover the cost of the repair. An additive will only help improve the test results.

There are lots of failures from people who use high volume stations.

HPFP Failure

Year: 2013
Build Date: Ordered 4 months earlier from manufacturer via dealership and picked up from dealer Feb. 2013
Make/Model: Golf TDI
Tranny: 6 spd manual
Mileage: 25,600 (approx.)
Diesel Fuel Source: Shell and Chevron
Additives: (Yes/No) No
Problem: 08/18/2015 - Glow plug indicator light on dash illuminated. Car started sputtering. Pulled off to side of road. Attempted restart of car and would run very rough for about 10s and then die. After that, car wouldn't start again.Had car towed to dealership. 08/19/2015 - Mechanic diagnosed the problem to be a failed fuel pump. Found excessive amounts of metal shavings in tank. Sending sample fuel to manufacturer for testing. Service Rep. says fuel could be contaminated.
Dealer: Bozzani VW, Covina, CA
Status: 08/21/2015 - fuel being sent mfg for testing, results still pending
08/29/2015 - Repair complete in 8 days. Service Adviser did not provide much details when asked. Only said that fuel pump failed due to contamination of fuel. MY guess is that the fuel contamination was due to the fuel pump failing, which led to metal shavings in the fuel. This resulted in the fuel pump failing and contamination in the entire fuel system. Repair was completely covered under warranty.

BleachedBora said:

All diesel has additives. You want high volume high cetane. Chevron, Shell, BP Amoco, etc...
There was a TSB a few years ago about additional additives, and yes VW does not recommend anything additional. The TSB did mention possible denying of warranty with "aftermarket" additives...
YMMV,
-BB

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Correct. All fuel contains additives which are put in sometime prior to shipping to the stations. They all pull out of the same fuel depots (for each area). The only way each brand has to differentiate their products is from the additive package.

kappa546 said:

Hey folks, I am chiming in with my problem and hoping for some advice. I have an 09 jetta 6M with about 144K miles on it. This weekend I was driving and lost power as I attempted to pass. The engine got up to 3,000rpm and just hit a brick wall, and slowly kept losing power until it finally shut down about 100yds down the road. I checked/replaced the fuel filter and there weren't any metal flakes in the tank, and there never has been. There was a very small amount of white gooey gunk between a couple of fold on the filter, not sure that that was. My car shows no error codes for the engine however it will not start. A service specialist at a dealership I called told me they had one customer have his repair covered and one denied because he didn't have the Fuel guard replaced in that particular recall (a recall I never got any correspondence for). I called VWOA and the lady I spoke with on the phone basically flat out told me that they probably wouldn't assist because I didn't have the guard, and even if I did I was past the 120k extended warranty period if it did turn out to be the hpfp.

So now what? I still haven't taken then car to the dealership but both they and VWOA have told me they're not likely to assist financially with the repair if it is indeed a fuel system failure simply because of the mileage. I have not gone back and read the thread from the beginning but I see mentions of a 2micron kit, what is that about?

Please, any and all advice is appreciated!

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Does it even turn over when you attempt to start it, or is it completely "seized"?

I had similar power loss issues at 4k rpm. Turned out to be sucked in intercooler condensation. If the engine won't crank at all when you attempt to start it, it sounds more like a hydrolock than HPFP. Good luck!

ticketed2much said:

Out of hundreds of HPFP failures about a dozen used additives, and I believe only one used optilube 100% of the time. Powerservice was used in a few but it does not do much for lubricity. To me that says something.

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That does seem to be the trend...

I've been using <=B20 at the local Love's since I got the DPF/EGR relocated. Car seems to get slightly better mileage and I guarantee it's good and slick! Or at least I hope so! I used to use almost all Shell with Diesel Kleen.

Price of additive + effort and exposure = I felt like it was not worth it considering I have 2micron kit and run some bio now. Some resident forum experts have reinforced that attitude.

If I did not have a kit, and car was stock... yes, I'd dump something in every tank!

Pending HPFP failure, VW NOT HELPING

Not sure this fits exactly here, but I feel a failure is coming on, and wanted to share and vent at what I view a really poor customer service by VW, particularly there national Customer Care people who did not even bother to record the specifics of my vehicle and my name, they are USELESS.

So, my 2012 Jetta TDI is now just out of Warranty, except the 10yr/120K coverage on the known poorly designed HPFP. I do a fuel filter change early 15K from the last dealer change... and I find metal particles of course!

Knowing this is an issue, and the extended warranty, I assume the path is document my findings, high resolution digital pictures, printed for the dealer, and a pristine white rag turned grey with metal filings, and the old filter delivered for their inspection (I even provided the VCDS diagnostic print out). THEY still want a $110 diagnostic fee, I object as this SHOULD be a warranty item.

So assuming it is OBVIOUS that metal in the fuel system is NOT normal, and it has to be a HPFP in early stages of eventual failure, and it being GOOD for VW to get it BEFORE catastrophic failure and a roadside disabled car with extensive fuel system contamination.. I assume it will get replaced under warranty, as I have under 45K miles.

NOPE, it seems the Dealer did try to get VW to agree to replace the HPFP pump, but they denied the authorization for the dealer to do this work. Since I did the filter change, amazingly about 100 miles and one day later, there is no MORE evidence of metal particles.. OBVIOUSLY. The service writer I do think really tried, but gave me VW Customer care.. so I called and VENTED.

They are officially useless. I explained the situation and was basically told, the customer is not to be trusted, because I did the filter change and cleaned up the metal particles, the dealer could not find any more, and thus they could not replace the pump.... So officially it is VW policy to ignore the metal filings, even try some BS that the could come from fill ups, or other contamination (BS, I have a Diesel truck, fueled at same stations, even more varied, with longer service time, MORE fuel, and even a late filter change on it, NO METAL particles at nearly 30K miles. METAL IS NOT NORMAL, some sediment is, and I did see that in the truck, but no METAL flakes.

This will almost certainly be my LAST VW vehicle I ever buy new, this is absurd, but to be fair I had a GM Truck Lemon, and a Dodge Truck Lemon, so I guess I have all kinds of luck with vehicles, perhaps why I have little patience left on these kind of things.

Wow, that is pathetic.

MRO1791 said:

Knowing this is an issue, and the extended warranty, I assume the path is document my findings, high resolution digital pictures, printed for the dealer, and a pristine white rag turned grey with metal filings, and the old filter delivered for their inspection (I even provided the VCDS diagnostic print out). THEY still want a $110 diagnostic fee, I object as this SHOULD be a warranty item.

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I can sympathize with your situation, but if VW covered everyone who showed up with pictures of metal flakes, everyone would throw some metal flakes in their canister, take pictures and demand a new fuel pump.

Next time put everything back together and take it directly to the dealer. Still a crapshoot whether they will cover it or not

MRO1791: Sorry, I agree with the above. You removed all evidence of an issue. VWoA's representative, the dealer, has NOTHING to show VWoA.

Also, my opinion is that there is no way to predict a "pending" HPFP failure. I've had metal flakes in my FF, at about 12k miles (IIRC) and rusty sediment at 30k. I'm now at 93k miles, no fuel related issues whatsoever.

As for VW Customer Care, as with any CC service, the title is a total misnomer. Their real job is to deny service, saving money for mgmt. Period. That's how business works.

I'm lucky. I've never dealt with VWoA Cust. Care. When/if I do, I will be calmly relentless in moving up the "food chain" until I find someone who understands my language. Yes, I most likely will end up with the same result as you, but I will be relentless.

Sorry about your troubles!

HPFP Failure

I'm the next victim of the catastrophic HPFP saga. Here are the details below:

While I've been on guard for dealer confrontation, this is going in the right direction. I know a very knowledgeable car buff who claims that there is one factor in favor of VW: The quality of diesel sold in the US remains verifiably inferior to the more-refined version sold in Europe (i.e. still more sulfur in US fuels despite the ultra-low mandate). It's the refineries, not the oil. Other HPFP systems (BMW & MB) have superior engineered pumps, and are not as metallurgical sensitive to the higher sulfur content. There may still be some merit behind a bad batch of TDI pumps.


Year: 2011
Build Date: 04/2011
Make/Model: VW Jetta TDI
Tranny: 6M
Mileage: 38k
Diesel Fuel Source: Shell (exclusively)
Additives: None
Problem: August 2015. Engine suddenly lost power, glow coil and engine annunciators illuminated. Car died en route to dealer, coasted into dealer parking lot unable to restart. Diagnosis was failed HPFP with metallic particles through the fuel system. VW accused my daughter (primary driver) of putting gasoline in the vehicle and stated fix was $6k - $10k in repair cost. They sent a fuel sample to VW of North America to test for contamination. We secured our sample at the same time (no objection from dealer). Test came back negative for gasoline, and VW says they'll complete the repairs under warranty, but we are on the hook for our rental car - Estimated 3 weeks total.
Dealer: Burt Smith, St. Pete
Status: Dealer is making repairs under warranty

^^^Three weeks to complete the repair? That's outrageous, and you should gently address this with the dealer.
Sorry for your failure.

tdiatlast said:

^^^Three weeks to complete the repair? That's outrageous, and you should gently address this with the dealer.
Sorry for your failure.

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Yeah, what he said! That is crazy it's going to take 3wk and no way should you paying for the rental. Your car isn't even broken in and it's warranty work. That sucks man...

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

Year: 2010
Build Date: April 2010
Make/Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Mileage: 82155
Diesel Fuel Source: Safeway (uses Tesoro B5 fuel)
Additives: No
Problem: Was driving to the store with the windows down through the neighborhood, I noticed that there was a squeeking/squeeling sound coming from the engine. I verifed that it did not change with load so it was not the turbo. it matched the RPM of the engine. I returned home just as the car would no longer idle and would not restart. I checked the oil, level was perfect. I removed the fuel filter canister top and was greeted with what looked to be a glitter explosion. I took a fuel sample and put it in a glass jar for my own safe keeping. Fuel filters have been changed every 20k miles.
Dealer: Taking it to Armstrong VW in Gladstone Oregon in the morning.
Status: TBD

MRO1791 said:

...Since I did the filter change, amazingly about 100 miles and one day later, there is no MORE evidence of metal particles...

...They are officially useless. I explained the situation and was basically told, the customer is not to be trusted...

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The manufacturer's warranty worked exactly the way it is supposed to work in your case. The manufacturer's representative (the dealer) must confirm the problem reported by the customer. Since you took it upon yourself to remove the evidence, what were you expecting? Do you expect the dealer to replace your engine or transmission just because you say so? I think your anger is somewhat misplaced.

Dealers sometimes have a little latitude to do little things on your word but thousands of dollars isn't going to happen. I think expecting VW to do a HPFP with a picture of a rag is a little unrealistic.

TDI-TYP said:

I know a very knowledgeable car buff who claims that there is one factor in favor of VW: The quality of diesel sold in the US remains verifiably inferior to the more-refined version sold in Europe (i.e. still more sulfur in US fuels despite the ultra-low mandate). It's the refineries, not the oil. Other HPFP systems (BMW & MB) have superior engineered pumps, and are not as metallurgical sensitive to the higher sulfur content. There may still be some merit behind a bad batch of TDI pumps.

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Ummm, no. The USLD (less than 10 ppm sulfur) change over in 2006 was for both North America and Europe. The change over started in 2005 in Europe first and then North America. Full compliance was to have taken place by 2008. The difference in the fuel is that Europe specifies a lower scar rating, or greater lubricity, than the US. Canada is slightly lower than the US but not as low as Europe (IIRC).

Regulations are also changing for non-road use, such as Jet A, home heating oil, and transportation engines, such as those is ocean vessels.

yes, and fuel that had more sulfur (because it combine with nickel?) also had better lubricity, correct? lack of lubricity seems to be the biggest obvious nemesis... well I take that back... shotty fuel should not bear the guilt for shotty design of the cp4s...

JetPuf said:

Year: 2010
Build Date: April 2010
Make/Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Mileage: 82155
Diesel Fuel Source: Safeway (uses Tesoro B5 fuel)
Additives: No
Problem: Was driving to the store with the windows down through the neighborhood, I noticed that there was a squeeking/squeeling sound coming from the engine. I verifed that it did not change with load so it was not the turbo. it matched the RPM of the engine. I returned home just as the car would no longer idle and would not restart. I checked the oil, level was perfect. I removed the fuel filter canister top and was greeted with what looked to be a glitter explosion. I took a fuel sample and put it in a glass jar for my own safe keeping. Fuel filters have been changed every 20k miles.
Dealer: Taking it to Armstrong VW in Gladstone Oregon in the morning.
Status: TBD

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so the b5 didn't save you... I'm using <=b20... hopeful...

kjclow said:

Ummm, no. The USLD (less than 10 ppm sulfur) change over in 2006 was for both North America and Europe.

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Isn't it 15ppm?

mr_y82 said:

yes, and fuel that had more sulfur (because it combine with nickel?) also had better lubricity, correct? lack of lubricity seems to be the biggest obvious nemesis... well I take that back... shotty fuel should not bear the guilt for shotty design of the cp4s...

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The fuel with higher sulfur has higher lubricity since the way to reduce the sulfur also strips out surfactants and other fatty acids that aid in lubrication. The easiest way to describe the treatment is that the refineries basically force boiling water and steam through the diesel fuel until it is below that maximum level of sulfur. The water strips surfactants and sulfur at the same time.

Philth said:

Isn't it 15ppm?

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It might be 15 ppm. I was quoting Wikipedia on the 10 ppm.

Ok, so riddle me this, people who used additives still have failures.

turbovan+tdi said:

Ok, so riddle me this, people who used additives still have failures.

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I haven't

ticketed2much said:

I haven't

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Not yet! Commence evil laugh,

For me, I consider fuel additive is like home security. You never know when you might need it (poor lubricity/burglar).
You also never really know when it's working.

tdiatlast said:

For me, I consider fuel additive is like home security. You never know when you might need it (poor lubricity/burglar).
You also never really know when it's working.

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Good way to put it! I'm a religious user, never miss a tank AND so far, so good after 168k on the clock.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

this thread is way too active, lol... I stopped using additives... hate the exposure and the smell (even when it sits in a hot car, even though it's in a lucas tuneup bottle inside another tupperware)... bought the 2 micron kit and got set up so I can run b20... hoping for the best, still gonna use up the winter dk when it gets cold... I'll see if it affects the mileage.

mr_y82 said:

this thread is way too active, lol... I stopped using additives... hate the exposure and the smell (even when it sits in a hot car, even though it's in a lucas tuneup bottle inside another tupperware)... bought the 2 micron kit and got set up so I can run b20... hoping for the best, still gonna use up the winter dk when it gets cold... I'll see if it affects the mileage.

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How difficult is the 2Micron install?

mr_y82 said:

this thread is way too active, lol... I stopped using additives... hate the exposure and the smell (even when it sits in a hot car, even though it's in a lucas tuneup bottle inside another tupperware)... bought the 2 micron kit and got set up so I can run b20... hoping for the best, still gonna use up the winter dk when it gets cold... I'll see if it affects the mileage.

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The 2micron set up has nothing to do with being able to run B20. From what has been said on here, the issues (IIRC) with B20 are varnishing the injectors and blow by causing oil dilution.

^ My trusted TDI mechanic below seemed to think I'd be ok... gonna keep an eye on filters, etc... and will update if it causes issues... I hope not! It is <=B20, so I don't know if I am getting B5, B10... Thanks for the heads up though!

edit: I have considered trying to get my wife to fill the tank at about half and alternate between shell and b20ish... She just noted a few days ago that the car feels smoother with more fuel (we don't run it stupid low), so maybe I can get her to sacrifice the time, especially if we start to see any issues...

mr_y82 said:

this thread is way too active, lol... I stopped using additives... hate the exposure and the smell (even when it sits in a hot car, even though it's in a lucas tuneup bottle inside another tupperware)... bought the 2 micron kit AND got set up so I can run b20... hoping for the best, still gonna use up the winter dk when it gets cold... I'll see if it affects the mileage.

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Maybe I should have been more clear, just to make sure that people don't make a mistake on my account... but what I said was, I don't bother with additives because:

A) I have the 2micron kit... buying additives for a few years will cost more than a HPFP, lol... so that is one reason for no additive... plus I dislike the smell, exposure, and effort.

B) I have an EGR and DPF relocation... so I can run b20 (I thought my signature answered the "AND got set up" part of my scenario (but should have erred on the side of newbie caution...), hopefully giving me better lubricity than any additive at reasonable quantities could...

Don't forget I had your back on leaving out words, haha. Don't give me a hard time when I didn't technically say anything wrong!

Cheers from the Western end of the state!

Philth said:

How difficult is the 2Micron install?

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Not very (if you have a few hours experience and a basic grasp of simple mechanics, or if you have good theoretical knowledge and are capable of reading, lol... Andrew provides awesome instructions)... I actually just gave a hand, and mostly shot the sh-t with Daniel (app diesel works in my sig) while he installed it... I did not yet have a torque wrench yet (one arrived today!), and decided the peace of mind was worth paying for 2 hours of labor, especially to meet a good mechanic at $55/hr... Daniel is old school, haha.