Why I'm Doing Nothing Until 2018

fookin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
WLV, you also carry the risk of recall to re-tune your ECU to the "fix" and that "fix" may be undesireable (less power, less mpg). I thought that was actually approved already. Regardless of whether you chose the fix or buyback, or nothing at all, you could get a recall notice to update your software and your registration at your state DMV will put a hold on it until they receive confirmation from Audi that they installed the software. This was my experience in California. My registration was held until I did a recall back in 2015 (or 2016).
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
WLV, you also carry the risk of recall to re-tune your ECU to the "fix" and that "fix" may be undesireable (less power, less mpg).
No, you do not carry this risk. CA no longer requires the previous non-fix "fix" in order to register your car, and no state who accepts any of the settlement money may refuse registration to a Dieselgatemobile due to failure to have the new fix done. Please, stop the FUD.
 

fookin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
What is FUD?
That is a stupid acronym. TIASA. Get it? I didn't know Ca or other states changed their laws or procedures regarding holding registration. I was sharing my experience. Instead of posting acronyms no one will use please post the source of your information.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
It's in the settlement documents and has been discussed here dozens of times. It has nothing to do with CA or any other state's laws; it's part of the DOJ settlement. About $3B, IIRC, goes into an environmental mitigation trust, and is available to states for various defined purposes. But if they take any of the money, one of the terms they agree to is that they can't deny registration based on cars not getting the fix.
 

PFCoppinger

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Location
Worcester, MA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen
The settlement went out of its way to protect people who bought the cars. They want as many of them as possible either off the road or modified to the settlement spec, if possible, so they offer us all financial incentive to do one or the other of those things. But what if you like the car as is? That's on VW, not on you; you get to keep your car. You just don't get money. And if too many owners choose that route, and VW can't reach its 85% threshold, that's on VW, not on you.

Unless you are in one of the 6 states that did not accept share of VW's giant settlement payment, then your state cannot refuse registration of your car because of emissions.
 

cdrewco

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
colorado
TDI
golf 2015
Clarification please

I am also concerned about the second stag modifications and and waiting for now but love my car and am leaning towards keeping it.
With the buyback, there is a change in the amount based on mileage and I tend to drive alot. So, if I keep it until 2018 I agree with the thinking that it does not really cost anything for now to keep it, but I wonder if I will regret it once the mileage adjustment is made in 2018??
Also wondering if the stage two fix is the same based on the different generation engines?
I love my car but hate to be stuck with a lemon if the second stage fix is bad...
 

JoannaAdler

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
2013 Golf TDI (Manual)
I'm definitely up for waiting until the last minute to do anything. Makes financial sense. We paid cash for our car, but a new car means higher insurance and worst of all -- figuring out what to buy. We don't have the infrastructure for an eGolf, so I love the idea of a hybrid, it's just a question of if/when they'll bring it to California. Hopefully by the time we have to turn our car in, otherwise, we might go carless. We're only at 23K after 3 years. It might make more sense to just rent as needed and use Zipcar and services like that. But I'll miss the little Golf!

Mostly I think the execs at VW suck and I feel bad for the emps at the bottom of the ladder who have had to pay for their mistakes by losing their jobs. Boo!
 

detroit9k

Active member
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Location
Western Mass
TDI
2013 PASSAT SEL DSG
The insurance company will only insure it to market value, not the value of the settlement. At least that's the line at Liberty. That's why I traded mine in. I figured up to $15k in uninsured exposure.

Drive carefully!
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
The insurance company will only insure it to market value, not the value of the settlement.
Sure, but what's "market value"? You aren't going to find many (or any) 2-liter TDIs out there for much less than buyback value right now.

Edit: And even if your car is totaled, and not drivable, you still are eligible for the restitution payment, on top of whatever you get from your insurance. That reduces (and may even eliminate) your exposure. And if your car is totaled, but can still drive under its own power, you hit the jackpot--take the full buyback amount, then get the insurance money less the salvage value.
 

rgoetz

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Location
NJ
TDI
None currently
Last summer I bought a replacement (GTI), but my family has a need for 3 cars through Sept 2018, so we are keeping the TDI until then. I'm ok with the risk, as the car will have less than 120K miles.
 

Tony45

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Location
Naples Florida
TDI
2013 Golf TDI 2-door 6MT (BB - 4/18)
I've no interest in a fix for Gen1 and planning on setting up an appointment for December 2018 turn-in. Depending on where you turn-in car, there might be a stampede at that time; so plan to setup my appointment three months in advance (the max advance time for appointments). Two cars I'm considering: 2018 GTI and Volvo V60.
 

mydecember1985

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2015
Location
Florida
TDI
2013 JSW 6MT ;2011 JSW (buy-back May 2017)
4) In two years there will be more choices when it comes to higher-mileage gasoline vehicles. Even now, the new FWD A3 has a revamped gasoline engine that gets better fuel economy than last year's model. In two years we may see even better engines, or more hybrids from manufacturers of vehicles that I'd actually consider owning.
Why buy new? Our 2011 JSW only has an LCD radio display and Bluetooth over the features on our "new to us" 02 Infiniti. This can be remedied by installing a $200-300 aftermarket radio. 78k miles on the Infiniti. Close to 60k on the JSW.

Buying a cheap, reliable used car will far outweigh any fuel savings. For just at $8k we bought a minty 1-owner car with leather, heated seats, heated steering wheel, moonroof, rear window screen, HIDs, TCS, and all the features of a modern car.

I commute about 45 miles per day to work. The wife barely drives at all, but we go to SeaWorld with our daughter every few weeks. Equates to about 1,300 miles/month. I calculated out the maximum average of 1,500 miles/month and related fuel costs.

The toll road only saves me about 3-5 minutes per day, so ignore that section. I don't take the toll road. I just used it to calculate my commute cost and get a raise :)



The $12k I saved in buying a used, 15-year-old, low-MPG (but extremely reliable) car would take 17 YEARS of driving the Infiniti to cost me more than that of driving the VW. And the VW gets nearly double the MPG the Infiniti does!

So looking at most gassers today getting combined numbers of around 35mpg in the leading class (Camry, Mazda6, GSW, etc), even an amazing 20% increase in fuel economy would only net you 42MPG which is what we get with the VWs. Hence the calculations I laid out give a perfect example of how long it would take to make up the cost difference in fuel savings.

I planned on having the VW a pretty solid 10+ years. Saving $700 per year in fuel costs is GREAT. Don't get me wrong. But when it boils down to purchasing a $25k+ car over a <$10k car with basically the same features, the time it takes to break even on the fuel savings is absurd!

Even if fuel costs increased to 2010 levels >>> $3.70 for gas and $3.90 for diesel was the average around this area >>>> Break-even is STILL 10.51 years!

If I ran them both for the 10 years, at the end of its life, I'd still have an extra $4900 in my pocket. All that income extra cash on hand from buying used could be sunk into retirement and investments.

EDIT: The JSW has more cargo area, so yeah, I could bring home a TV or computer desk without having to pay for delivery. Say I buy 2 or 3 of those items in those same 10 years. That's only about $200 in delivery fees.
 
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Dr Chill

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Location
South Florida
TDI
2016 A8L TDI
Why buy new? Our 2011 JSW only has an LCD radio display and Bluetooth over the features on our "new to us" 02 Infiniti. This can be remedied by installing a $200-300 aftermarket radio. 78k miles on the Infiniti. Close to 60k on the JSW.

Buying a cheap, reliable used car will far outweigh any fuel savings. For just at $8k we bought a minty 1-owner car with leather, heated seats, heated steering wheel, moonroof, rear window screen, HIDs, TCS, and all the features of a modern car.

I commute about 45 miles per day to work. The wife barely drives at all, but we go to SeaWorld with our daughter every few weeks. Equates to about 1,300 miles/month. I calculated out the maximum average of 1,500 miles/month and related fuel costs.

The toll road only saves me about 3-5 minutes per day, so ignore that section. I don't take the toll road. I just used it to calculate my commute cost and get a raise :)



The $12k I saved in buying a used, 15-year-old, low-MPG (but extremely reliable) car would take 17 YEARS of driving the Infiniti to cost me more than that of driving the VW. And the VW gets nearly double the MPG the Infiniti does!

So looking at most gassers today getting combined numbers of around 35mpg in the leading class (Camry, Mazda6, GSW, etc), even an amazing 20% increase in fuel economy would only net you 42MPG which is what we get with the VWs. Hence the calculations I laid out give a perfect example of how long it would take to make up the cost difference in fuel savings.

I planned on having the VW a pretty solid 10+ years. Saving $700 per year in fuel costs is GREAT. Don't get me wrong. But when it boils down to purchasing a $25k+ car over a <$10k car with basically the same features, the time it takes to break even on the fuel savings is absurd!

Even if fuel costs increased to 2010 levels >>> $3.70 for gas and $3.90 for diesel was the average around this area >>>> Break-even is STILL 10.51 years!

If I ran them both for the 10 years, at the end of its life, I'd still have an extra $4900 in my pocket. All that income extra cash on hand from buying used could be sunk into retirement and investments.

EDIT: The JSW has more cargo area, so yeah, I could bring home a TV or computer desk without having to pay for delivery. Say I buy 2 or 3 of those items in those same 10 years. That's only about $200 in delivery fees.
Using your logic, why not buy a car for $1000 and drive it until it breaks and sell it for parts on ebay to recoup a few $ on your next car that will cost around $500. Why buy new rather than what you did? Because who the hell wants to go from driving a 5 year old car to driving a 15 year old one? Very few people.

It's not all about dollars and cents when it comes to driving and cars.
 

mydecember1985

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2015
Location
Florida
TDI
2013 JSW 6MT ;2011 JSW (buy-back May 2017)
Using your logic, why not buy a car for $1000 and drive it until it breaks and sell it for parts on ebay to recoup a few $ on your next car that will cost around $500. Why buy new rather than what you did? Because who the hell wants to go from driving a 5 year old car to driving a 15 year old one? Very few people.
It's not all about dollars and cents when it comes to driving and cars.
The point is that he is waiting 2 years to purchase a gasser that is better on fuel economy. It's an exercise in showing that you can buy a car that is decent on mileage and save significantly over buying new.

The wife had me quite interested in a CPO Grand Touring Mazda6. Around $26k out the door for a 2016 with 20,000+ miles. It gets around 36MPG

Take example of a 2015 TDI vs a 2015 Mazda
TDI: $24k gets 43MPG combined
Mazda6: $22k for just a "touring" with comparable features. 36 MPG

Only a $2k difference. Quite close, but VW gets a little more MPG.

It would take 23 YEARS to save enough money in fuel to pay the difference for the TDI.


My point on older car: The Infiniti we purchased to replace the VW is more powerful, more leg room, much more comfortable, and MUCH cheaper to maintain.

In the 10 years I expect to own the car, I will spend somewhere around $7k more in fuel, but at least I've got all that excess cash on hand in the meantime. And by the end of said 10 years, I'm still ahead by over $5k. I could have an absolute catastrophic failure like blowing the engine and tranny in the Infiniti and still have $$ left over after replacing them both.
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
I own an Audi A3 TDI, model year 2015. While I'm leaning toward a buyback, here's why I'm doing nothing until close to the 2018 deadline:

1) I get 50+ mpg on the freeway and 35mpg in town. I don't want to jeopardize that. I'll let others be the guinea pigs and let Consumer Reports figure out if there's any mileage degradation before I make up my mind.

2) Even if stage 1 doesn't change anything, who knows if that will be true for the stage 2 repairs? And then I'd be stuck with the fix.

3) I still have 2 more years of warranty, and I pre-paid for service. So, as the service manager said, this car will cost me nothing for close to two more years.

4) In two years there will be more choices when it comes to higher-mileage gasoline vehicles. Even now, the new FWD A3 has a revamped gasoline engine that gets better fuel economy than last year's model. In two years we may see even better engines, or more hybrids from manufacturers of vehicles that I'd actually consider owning.

5) According to the buyback calculator I will be getting essentially what I paid for the car, not including tax and license. So for the one time in my life, I'll have owned a car for four years that isn't a depreciating asset. In essence, I'll have had a car for free for four years, except for the cost of diesel fuel and insurance. That will never happen again, I'm sure.
WLV, I agree 110% with everything you said, and that's why I'm waiting until Summer 2018 to do the buyback.
 

WLV

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2015 A3 TDI
Glad it struck a chord, Dieselmann99. Also, there may be very strong incentives from VW/Audi in 2018 if they don't get enough buybacks.

And I rechecked my numbers; they're actually paying me $800 more than I paid for the car, including tax and registration. Plus we already got $1,000 to keep us happy, plus another $350 soon from Bosch.

I have nothing to complain about.
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
Glad it struck a chord, Dieselmann99. Also, there may be very strong incentives from VW/Audi in 2018 if they don't get enough buybacks.

And I rechecked my numbers; they're actually paying me $800 more than I paid for the car, including tax and registration. Plus we already got $1,000 to keep us happy, plus another $350 soon from Bosch.

I have nothing to complain about.
What's the $350 soon from Bosch? Haven't heard about that.
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
Why buy new?

. . . .

I calculated out the maximum average of 1,500 miles/month and related fuel costs.
And you didn't even count the BIGGEST expense in car ownership: Depreciation. The Infinity would have very little depreciation compared to a new car. Now I know some people think Deprecation really isn't an expense because it's not an out-of-pocket monthly cost. But they obviously never took an accounting course in college. It's a very REAL expense, trust me.
 

WLV

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2015 A3 TDI
Bosch agreed last week to pay every owner of a 2L TDI $350 for their role in supplying the software for the cheat. They're paying owners of 3L TDIs around $1,500. It was in the newspapers.
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
Bosch agreed last week to pay every owner of a 2L TDI $350 for their role in supplying the software for the cheat. They're paying owners of 3L TDIs around $1,500. It was in the newspapers.
Thanks, WLV. I just saw the thread since my post.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Glad it struck a chord, Dieselmann99. Also, there may be very strong incentives from VW/Audi in 2018 if they don't get enough buybacks.

<snip>
Might just happen

The cost of the average BB vs the cost of penalties is approx double per car:D

If vw gets behind the eight ball ~~ my guess is the $1,000 good will cards will look like chump change X 10 -- :eek:

More than one good reason to wait 'til 2018
 

dropnosky

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Location
RI
TDI
2000 Jetta 6 speed, 2012 Passat DSG
The point is that he is waiting 2 years to purchase a gasser that is better on fuel economy. It's an exercise in showing that you can buy a car that is decent on mileage and save significantly over buying new.

The wife had me quite interested in a CPO Grand Touring Mazda6. Around $26k out the door for a 2016 with 20,000+ miles. It gets around 36MPG

Take example of a 2015 TDI vs a 2015 Mazda
TDI: $24k gets 43MPG combined
Mazda6: $22k for just a "touring" with comparable features. 36 MPG

Only a $2k difference. Quite close, but VW gets a little more MPG.

It would take 23 YEARS to save enough money in fuel to pay the difference for the TDI.


My point on older car: The Infiniti we purchased to replace the VW is more powerful, more leg room, much more comfortable, and MUCH cheaper to maintain.

In the 10 years I expect to own the car, I will spend somewhere around $7k more in fuel, but at least I've got all that excess cash on hand in the meantime. And by the end of said 10 years, I'm still ahead by over $5k. I could have an absolute catastrophic failure like blowing the engine and tranny in the Infiniti and still have $$ left over after replacing them both.

its always interesting when you lay out the numbers like that. Do you recall when fuel was so expensive 8-10 years ago everyone was dumping their gas hog SUVs and buying econo cars and hybrids?

I remember a similar chart from that time period showing the same kind of financial breakdown, where people would have to drive for more than a decade to break even or actually save a time, vs just dumping fuel in the gas hog truck and keeping it on the road.
 

Mrszippy

New member
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Location
Dallas, Texas
TDI
2014 Jetta, 2014 Beetle
I have 2 TDIs. I turned in my 2014 Beetle convertible yesterday and got $30,000. I replaced it with a 2001 Isuzu Trooper for $4000. I will keep my 2014 Jetta until the end, in case there will be an extra incentive. Plus, I like driving it in good weather. I have moved to a place with weather, and could not see spending $50,000 for a modern 4x4.
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
I have 2 TDIs. I turned in my 2014 Beetle convertible yesterday and got $30,000. I replaced it with a 2001 Isuzu Trooper for $4000. I will keep my 2014 Jetta until the end, in case there will be an extra incentive. Plus, I like driving it in good weather. I have moved to a place with weather, and could not see spending $50,000 for a modern 4x4.
Smart move.
 

Ionia

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
Phoenix
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Discombobulated

Hi,

I have been reading threw these forms for hours and hours. I have 2 TDI's in my family (2009 & 2015) and I want to wait to sell them back as long as possible. I was told

"Your offer letter has been accepted. The next step in the process is to schedule an appointment with a Settlement Specialist to turn in your vehicle"

The latest date I see available is in June 2017, do I just do nothing or so I have to write to someone I want to wait so I don't lose the ability to turn in the vehicles? Especially since I just got another email saying The EPA and CARB have approved an emissions modification for your vehicle.

I appreciate any insights.

Thanks!
 
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