Upgraded SMIC, how much improvement?

I am currently running with stock INtercooler and pipes. How much of a temperature drop can I expect with a EJ smic?
How much drop with larger pipes to and from the intercooler?

dont waste your time with SMIC!

Get a FMIC, and I dont care how much the SMIC guys praise.

FMIC is always better.

I run a BF SMIC, it's about twice the size of the stocker, lol..

Also, can't beat a Corky Bell core for efficiency.

Dont know about a good SMIC but I have tested that when using 1bar of boost in a car like mine (remaped) and hardware full stock SMIC , it does the same intakes as my with FMIC at 1.6bars with a VB.

Thats more less 55ºC going flat out.
So I guess its at least 25ºC less.

An upgraded SMIC is obviously better than the stock one, but I'm not sure that most people put a lot of thought into intercooler design.

This is a Boost Factory SMIC:



Some have said that is actually an Air/Water core that is supposed to be reverse flowed (I'm not sure if that is true or not). A deeper intercooler means that the velocity of the ambient air will slow more the further back it gets through the core. So, making it deeper will improve efficiency up to a point but there's no free lunch here. Improvements will be proportionately less significant the deeper it gets.

The most efficient intercooler would likely be to use an intercooler like this one from APR. The short and wide core give minimal pressure drop and maximize frontal area. The obvious downside here is fitment with the crash bar (at least in most applications).



In order to minimize any crash bar interference we're usually forced to compromise with a longer intercooler with tanks on either end. This is the intercooler I have in my car.





The MK3 has significantly less room up front than the MK4 so even though it is only about 7" tall I had to take out a significant section of the crash bar to make it fit. I wish I could've used the top/bottom tank intercooler, but that would've put most of the core behind the bumper cap and I think it would have actually been worse for efficiency.

That looks exactly like my FMIC... what intakes do you get?

EDIT:



Then I painted it black because it was too visible

You'll see temps drop substantially with an aftermarket SMIC. I went from 190 to 125 under same conditions.

Farfromovin said:

You'll see temps drop substantially with an aftermarket SMIC. I went from 190 to 125 under same conditions.

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you had a eurojet one right?

That's correct DD. EJ SMIC really dropped temps, and I imagine BF and Tyrolsport all provide same benefits.

Farfromovin said:

That's correct DD. EJ SMIC really dropped temps, and I imagine BF and Tyrolsport all provide same benefits.

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well brother than i take it its worth it, if the price is right then....

thanks for the honest input


what's new with the car....

I have a Eurojet SMIC. I can't really say how much temp drop it provides as I don't have that information but it's substantially larger than the stock unit. It's also quite a bit less expensive than a FM & less vulnerable to road rash.

darkhorse said:

I have a Eurojet SMIC. I can't really say how much temp drop it provides as I don't have that information but it's substantially larger than the stock unit. It's also quite a bit less expensive than a FM & less vulnerable to road rash.

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cool +2

darkhorse said:

I have a Eurojet SMIC. I can't really say how much temp drop it provides as I don't have that information but it's substantially larger than the stock unit. It's also quite a bit less expensive than a FM & less vulnerable to road rash.

Click to expand...

nice setup BTW

I ran a B/F SMIC. Noticed good improvement over stock, as long as the ducting is still in place. Without the ducting the air goes everywhere but through the core. I drove a week without the ducting and it reacted like a stock SMIC. With ducting it acted allot like my over sized FMIC does now.

My FMIC will pull temps down faster and keep them more consistent, but for a light to moderately modded TDI the upgraded SMIC will be fine, not to mention they can be found used for less than $400 used.

O.C.

diesel-dave said:

nice setup BTW

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Thanks, Dave. It's getting more fun to drive all the time.

O.C.TDI said:

I ran a B/F SMIC. Noticed good improvement over stock, as long as the ducting is still in place. Without the ducting the air goes everywhere but through the core. I drove a week without the ducting and it reacted like a stock SMIC. With ducting it acted allot like my over sized FMIC does now.

My FMIC will pull temps down faster and keep them more consistent, but for a light to moderately modded TDI the upgraded SMIC will be fine, not to mention they can be found used for less than $400 used.

O.C.

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+3 thanks for the input

Farfromovin said:

That's correct DD. EJ SMIC really dropped temps, and I imagine BF and Tyrolsport all provide same benefits.

Click to expand...

I have a Tyrolsport SMIC based on IBW's road and track experiences with it.

A *huge* difference over the stock SMIC, even at "just" 18 PSI.

Eurojet SMIC for me, didn't notice any difference driving.

darkhorse said:

I have a Eurojet SMIC. I can't really say how much temp drop it provides as I don't have that information but it's substantially larger than the stock unit. It's also quite a bit less expensive than a FM & less vulnerable to road rash.

Click to expand...

On DH's car, we reinstalled the duct prior to the ic. We also installed the TT fender liner.

FMIC for the win.

i tried a tyrolsport SMIC and it was not much better than a stock SMIC. heres a graph i made which shows the difference between the tyrol SMIC and an Allard FMIC, results speak for themselves:



both runs were at same ambient temp(they were a few degrees out but the figures were corrected according to ambient temp), same drive and same tune(vnt17B/pd150 nozzles/ ~190 BHP tune)

if you ask me, the SMIC is not well vented enough. i even tried an arch liner vent mod and a 4motion front valence to try and get more air to it but it did not make a difference.

FMIC FTW!

Very thick cores are inefficient at cooling.
By the time the ambient air is half way through the core its already hot and the engine air flowing through the rear portion doesn't get cooled much.

what i want to know is why the forge smic says it has a pressure drop of 2 psi that seems like allot compared with a 0.3 psi drop from most of the ebay fmic . is it because the upgraded smic end tanks are bigger . i thought the pressure drop mainly came from using anything bigger than 2" piping

2psi is a very high drop for any intercooler.

Theoretically with decreased temperatures and better combustion, there should be a decreased amount of smoke at WOT, correct? Can anybody attest to this? If so, how much clearer? (I'm really smokey and trying to decide on my next intake mod)

fenwick458 said:

FMIC for the win.

i tried a tyrolsport SMIC and it was not much better than a stock SMIC. heres a graph i made which shows the difference between the tyrol SMIC and an Allard FMIC, results speak for themselves:

both runs were at same ambient temp(they were a few degrees out but the figures were corrected according to ambient temp), same drive and same tune(vnt17B/pd150 nozzles/ ~190 BHP tune)

if you ask me, the SMIC is not well vented enough. i even tried an arch liner vent mod and a 4motion front valence to try and get more air to it but it did not make a difference.

FMIC FTW!

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wow that is interesting, thanks

I'm about a week or two away from installing my used EJ smic, thanks again Far. Still trying to find a used map sensor.
If I can finger it out (or if someone will tell/show me) I'll log some 3-4 days(drive into work, same road, same time, same speed) of IAT before and after ICupgrade

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/tour/logging.html
Engine measuring blocks, group 7

I'm working on installing an option that IMHO is a very good setup Dual SMIC's off of a TT. It has roughly the same frontal area as most of the FMIC's you fit on a Mk4 with stock bumper, but it doesn't require any cutting of the bumper.

I know the stock cores are not the most efficient cores, but I plan to replace the cores after I get the whole system working. The reason I like this setup the most is the available air with proper ducting there will be unlimited air available to the intercoolers. This doesn't do much at lower speeds, but while doing some significant advantages at higher speeds like you'd see on a track or while doing high speed runs.

The TT setup also works well for me since I am installing a driver's side inlet intake manifold that is a much better design then the stock unit, and probably most of the diesel units. Since it is very slight curve from the plenum to the runner and then a straight shot down the runner into the ports.

iBlake said:

Theoretically with decreased temperatures and better combustion, there should be a decreased amount of smoke at WOT, correct? Can anybody attest to this? If so, how much clearer? (I'm really smokey and trying to decide on my next intake mod)

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I attest, common sense.

mannytranny said:

Eurojet SMIC for me, didn't notice any difference driving.

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Under normal driving you won't. It's only situations that would get IATs over 100*F (say, 115*F to 190*F) where you notice the lower IATs.

Interstate merging, for example, going from rolling up to 70/80 MPH.

Or doing 60 to 90 MPH runs.