Thoughts on long term operation of 06 DSG TDI

cujet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Location
Florida, Hurricane central
TDI
2006 Jetta
I have had a small run of problems with my car. The trans valve body was a 3 week ordeal, the fuse box was a one day affair and the O2 sensor was a 2 trip, affair to get fixed. The car has left me stranded 3 times, Trans once, fuse box twice.

I love the car, I want to keep it, but the extended warr is 3500 bucks! No thanks.

SO.... Here are the out of warranty "DEAL KILLERS" in my mind.

1) The DMF dual mass flywheel fails, taking out the trans, which is $7,000 to replace. No parts are available and therefore it is not "user servicable" in this regard. The DSG is not available anywhere but VW.

2) The mechatronic valve body fails again. It leaves me stranded and costs $2,200 to repair. And the parts are VW Germany only. 3 week wait, any way you slice it.

3) The camshaft wears out early, maybe 100K miles. The wear metals take out the bearings, costing thousands.

The lesser expenses I can understand.

What do you guys think? Is there any alternate for DMF parts? How about a local repair for the valve body? Obviously, cost and risk is a factor in my decision to keep this car.



Chris
 

Herkypilot

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Location
NC
TDI
'14 Passat TDI SE w/DSG
That's down right depressing Chris! I always envisioned that my Jetta - with proper maintenance would last a long time. Now I'm interested in your thread. How many miles do you currently have on your car?

Herkypilot
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
What makes you so sure the DMF is gone in the 2009, the new 7 speed dry system did not make it yet, I thought the 6 speed is still being used in 2009. He may trade a good flywheel for a bad one. If your DMF has held up 50k it very well may hold up 300k. Which is all you need. The whole trans will be available for less than 5k in the next few years. They have a one piece flywheel for the manual and they probably will have one for the DSG in time. The fuse box thing is over, its not something you should worry about. Take the 3500 you would buy a warranty with and put it in the bank.

The PD cam issue is overdone also - The lifters were improved on the > 2005.5 and I have not heard of any failures, only 2004, early 2005. My first UOA from my DSG shows its wearing as well or better than any manual. I will post another UOA for the DSG in August. Why not have some UOA's done at every DSG fluid change and see if there is reason to worry. If I had to buy a new trans at 250k to go to 500k that is not bad at all.
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
wjdell said:
What makes you so sure the DMF is gone in the 2009, the new 7 speed dry system did not make it yet, I thought the 6 speed is still being used in 2009. He may trade a good flywheel for a bad one. If your DMF has held up 50k it very well may hold up 300k. Which is all you need. The whole trans will be available for less than 5k in the next few years. They have a one piece flywheel for the manual and they probably will have one for the DSG in time. The fuse box thing is over, its not something you should worry about. Take the 3500 you would buy a warranty with and put it in the bank.

The PD cam issue is overdone also - The lifters were improved on the > 2005.5 and I have not heard of any failures, only 2004, early 2005. My first UOA from my DSG shows its wearing as well or better than any manual. I will post another UOA for the DSG in August. Why not have some UOA's done at every DSG fluid change and see if there is reason to worry. If I had to buy a new trans at 250k to go to 500k that is not bad at all.
Here's one! Current owner used Elf 505.01 or better from 60K to the current 90K. The first 60K from original owner is the question mark oil wise. Lifters are a fricken disaster, eh? :rolleyes: Later!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205641
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
60k with no history - so you know thats meaningless. When cars that have had correct oil from day one - show me one. The one guy from England showed us a 2004 that failed with proper oil. That is the only one I know of that had a complete history.
 

Ol'Rattler

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Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
cujet said:
1) The DMF dual mass flywheel fails, taking out the trans, which is $7,000 to replace.
Actually, if you have a DSG you don't have a DMF. The current DSG has a dual wet clutch simular to the clutch pak in an auto tranny.

From what I've read here about the DSG, I'm real glad to have a 5 speed in mine and since it was manufactured on 06-06 I probably won't loose the tranny do to a granading DMF.

The trouble with a forum is that you never really hear about the hundreds or even thousands of folks that never have a problem..............................
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
I think the DSG still has a flywheel - but a Computer is better than your average driver. People who use autos tend to drive more reserved. Torque is applied more evenly. This may be why we hear more about DMF failures in manuals. There have been DSG flywheel failures, its just rare.
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
Ol'Rattler said:
Actually, if you have a DSG you don't have a DMF. The current DSG has a dual wet clutch simular to the clutch pak in an auto tranny...
Actually, it does have a DMF (or did in my case). And yes, those DMFs can come apart and take out the tranny. Ask me how I know.
 

cujet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Location
Florida, Hurricane central
TDI
2006 Jetta
Same build date here! My car has exhibited some of the DMF pre failure symptoms noted on this forum.

I don't care if the trans is 3K, 5K or 7K. Those numbers are WAY too high. I have a 98 F150 and the trans is available NEW (not overhauled) on ebay for less than 1K. Plus, I can purchase the parts myself if I want to overhaul it. Which I am capable of doing.

I stand by my statement, I am worried about future costs on this car.

Chris
 

rotarykid

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Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
If you're so worried about the DSG lifespan get a 5 spd manual trans car . Don't drop the clutch a lot when the system is cold . Then watch the miles pile up . :D

Repeated abuse or extreme use of a DMF when cold in a DSG or a manual trans can lead to early failure . Once warmed up the chances of a duel mass flywheel failure drops . I've seen DMFs in TDIs go hundreds of thousands of miles without issue .
 

Evolution

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Location
Raleigh, N.C.
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, Platinum Gray
Our DSG equipped 06 just turned 62k this week. So far, so good. Fluids and filter changes have been as they should be and I haven't had a problem yet.

The only problems with the car to date:
Vacume hose from the air intake cracked. Replaced by dealer
XM radio went out. Replaced by dealer
Front Defrost vent popped out. Replaced by dealer
Latch in the little door in the back seat to the trunk area failed. Replaced by dealer.
Could not be happier with the car thus far.
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
Build date on mine is 10-2006, and I just had Oliver (TDIracing on the forums) do the DSG service on mine with a reset to basic setting. At 34k the filter was pretty dirty and after the fluid and filter change I do notice the operation of my DSG seems much smoother.

We drove around with the VAG-COM hooked up and measured torque loss through it. I actually had more torque loss when I was stopped then when I was accellerating.

Given my experience, the DSG service is a required item and after every change the DSG should be reset to basic setting so that it can adjust for wear.

In my opinion, the DSG is like any other new technology. People worry if it will hold up since it hasn't been proven by millions of miles of service. My opinion is that if you change the fuild and filter when you are supposed to, then it should last. Like someone else pointed out, by the nature of forums like TDIclub we only hear about problems because that usually how people find the forum (in search of help for their problem).
 

cujet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Location
Florida, Hurricane central
TDI
2006 Jetta
I had not considered the influence of cold weather on the DMF. I can see where that is a problem with certain materials, especially ones required to be flexable. In my case, the car is always garaged in South Florida. Never cold.

What worries me is the way VW manages the parts situation. I saw the valve body on my car when it was replaced. It was a nice part, very well made. However, the failure was electric, not mechanical. The part was fine. If I could simply change the solenoid, it could have been fixed for a few dollars. But VW does not sell the indivual component. AND the complete part is both expensive and NOT AVAILABLE.
 

rotarykid

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Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
cujet said:
What worries me is the way VW manages the parts situation. I saw the valve body on my car when it was replaced. It was a nice part, very well made. However, the failure was electric, not mechanical. The part was fine. If I could simply change the solenoid, it could have been fixed for a few dollars. But VW does not sell the individual component. AND the complete part is both expensive and NOT AVAILABLE.
I ran into this exact issue on an early 90s Eurovan or what ever they called the 1994 . Took the shift body out and resoldered the broken electrical connection and all was good .

When these things get older that might be the way to go if the solenoid has a broken electrical connection . Just take it apart like I did and resolder the connection .
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
lightflyer - we were waiting for a UOA - on 25k OCI's of AFL, what a shame I suppose we will not get those now. This is the latest disentagration of a DMF to date, I think before this one they all went before 60k. That is that I have seen posted anyway.
 
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cujet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Location
Florida, Hurricane central
TDI
2006 Jetta
I was not aware the Bellhousing was replaceable.

In any case, I have reason to be concerned. I have the "supposed" squeal and shudder symptoms. BTW, my car just came back from the dealership, no fault found. HMMMM.

I drove the Toyota Camry Hybrid as I thought it was a good Jetta TDI replacement. NO WAY! It feels cheap, has that hybrid "wonky" feel and corners like an old American car. That is to say, it really leans in the corners. It certainly does not inspire confidence, not to mention it is in no way "sporty".
 

Ol'Rattler

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Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
10then34 said:
Actually, it does have a DMF (or did in my case). And yes, those DMFs can come apart and take out the tranny. Ask me how I know.
Actually A DMF is a single disk clutch and only applies to the 5 speed and 6 speed manual transmissions.

Your "tech" was probably mistakenly calling the DSG multi-disk clutch a DMF because it has 2 disks........................

From what a knowledgable tech at my dealers says, there is no flywheel. The mass of the Multi-disk clutch housing seems to provide the rotational inertia that a conventional or DMF flywheel would. Additionally, there are teeth machined into the outer circumferance of the houseing for the starter since there is no flywheel or ring gear.
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
Ol'Rattler said:
From what a knowledgable tech at my dealers says, there is no flywheel. The mass of the Multi-disk clutch housing seems to provide the rotational inertia that a conventional or DMF flywheel would. Additionally, there are teeth machined into the outer circumferance of the houseing for the starter since there is no flywheel or ring gear.
My trusty Bentley manual shows a DMF as component #3 on page 30-9. I guess they have it wrong then.
 
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Dusty Sidewinds

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Langley, WA
TDI
2006 Jetta
It is my understanding that the DMF problem was fixed mid production run on the 06 cars. Mine was built prior to the fix so I can either live with the risk or trade. I'm probably going to trade it on a TDI/DSG Sport Wagon next Fall as I'm on the waiting list at my dealer.

I can not recall the production date when the DMF was changed to the newer one. The other fix is to just have your DMF changed out to the new one and then go merily on your way. Of course you will have to get in line for the parts on that swap.:D

06 Jetta TDI/DSG 33,000 miles and loving it every mile. It's a wonderful drivers car.
 

Ol'Rattler

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Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
10then34 said:
My trusty Bentley manual shows a DMF as component #3 on page 30-9. I guess they have it wrong then.
No, My Bentleys CD is extremly vague. In the CD, the only ref to DMF is for removal from the crank. (Manual flywheel illistrations)
I searched the entire CD and could not find any ref or ilistration to the DSG with a DMF. That, and taking a suposed "tech"s miss information as fact........................................Anyway sir, you are correct.

Guess I'll be getting a paper manual. It sure sucks that Google has better illistrations than the CD manual does..........................
 
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