clock and trip zeroed on shutdown, and ABS+brake+chimes

I have a daughter who is in town for the holiday and her 02 Jetta is chiming and zeroing the clock and trip when she turns it off.

I searched around and the best I found was that cleaning grounds may help. I did that, very thoroughly, and put things back together, and it continues to act up.

It seems that lots of people have had this problem, but the postings are scarce on the cause and the fix.

Perhaps there are more than one thing wrong with this car, but I would be interested in hearing how anyone has solved the problem of the clock and trip zeroing ON SHUTDOWN, as well as the ABS light/flashing brake light/3 chimes (her 3 chimes keep repeating and repeating). THANKS!!!

You're really going to have to hook this up to a VCDS and find any codes that might be set. Just as an aside a weak battery makes weird things happen.

Did you check the brake fluid level? Sometimes the simple gets overlooked. With a VCDS you'll be able to tell if you've got a bad wheel speed sensor, those cause the abs, traction control and brake light to all come on at once.

Battery failing?

Not sure if this (non-battery issue) could be rectified by discharging the electrical system (touching battery cables together [not connected to battery!]).

Battery is relatively new, and tests great under load test. VDCS shows a glow plug problem which I am addressing, but I think will reoccur, as the injectors, or rather an injector, appears to have a bad spray problem.

Previous experience (on a different A4 Jetta) I have had with similar symptoms was due to a bad rear wheel sensor, but there are no VDCS codes showing an intermittent sensor, or for that matter, a failed sensor.

I can find no reason for the clock / trip reset upon removal of the key.

One thing I did find was a right rear bearing starting to make a little more noise, but it shows no play.

She is out this evening, and reports that the blue lights for the Monsoon radio are dimming at times. Newly observed symptom.

check the connections on fuse box on top of battery. also check the plug connections there.

Re-did the battery posts (had already done them), and pulled each fuse, cleaned each fuse, cleaned nuts, washers, etc. and reassembled. She test drove the car, and it happened again.

Went poking and found that wiggling the cables going to the fuse connector caused the symptoms to happen. So now I have to find out what is happening, starting by finding the subject wire.

BTW the Bentley viewer for the service manual is about the worst way to look at schematics. Like reading a wiring diagram looking through a soda straw!

Symptoms are typical of switched 12V failing

Dimitri16V said:

Symptoms are typical of switched 12V failing

Click to expand...

That could be, but the unswitched 12V, for the trip and clock shutoff when the key was turned off. The car alarm went off when the door was opened.

I haven't figured out why the trip/clock are reseting (other than assuming that the power is intermittently interrupted).

BTW, this happened when both fuses for the ABS were pulled from the battery fuse panel.

Some progress. VDCS showed intermittent COM with ABS controller. Couldn't find a reason for that.

I decided to pull the right rear wheel which had a code for an intermittent ABS sensor. I figured I would blow it off, and see if it worked better. After I got the wheel off, in the dimming daylight, I could see that the ABS sensor was out of the plate, hanging.

I reattached it, put a new retainer bolt in, and on test drive she says no more ABS and beeping with the flashing brake light.

I don't know why the clock and trip are resetting but that did not happen after the test drive. She leaves in the morning, and I am sure I will get some reports. The car is back for a day and a half at Christmas, so there is a little time to make any additional tweaks.

Thanks for the ideas.

Another update.

The beeping, flashing lights and odometer / trip reset have mostly stopped. The apparent fix was replacement of a sensor which had come out of the backing plate. (Daughter must be really driving on rough backcountry roads!)

There is a handful of incidents, perhaps two a week, where the chimes appear and then quickly go away, but I believe that is associated with an intermittent com to the ABS unit. I am at a loss as to why or where that is happening, and if anyone has dealt with a similar intermittent of the ABS com, I would love to hear what you found.

I do not know why a sensor out of it's plate would cause the odometer and trip to reset. The battery is good, the connections were good (now even better) and as soon as the sensor was refastened to it's mount, the resetting of the odo/trip stopped. Again, if anyone knows the likely reason for this, I would love to hear it.

Bottom line, the car is readily drivable without annoying beeping, which daughter says can induce homicidal thoughts on an 11 hour drive. I see the car again at Christmas, and if any new ideas pop up, I can pursue checking them out. Thanks everyone.

Thanks for continuing to provide feedback. It is very valuable.

Can you hook up a voltmeter (either snapshot recording or old style analog) to your fuse that supplies the clock, etc. and watch it on shutdown? You may be getting a voltage spike on shutdown of your alternator - a voltage regulator issue. Just a thought.

Since the sensor re-placement on to the wheel assembly, there has been no odo/trip reset. Why those would reset with an out of location sensor baffles me.

clock reset to 12:00 and trip meter reset on shut down ('03 Wagon)

This is a puzzling issue. My symptoms are trip reset and clock reset to 12:00 every time I turn off the engine.

More specifically, if I have been driving it for a while, and the clock starts accumulating minutes (12:20, 12:25...) and the trip meter scrolls up 5, 10 miles... I shut ALL voltage sucking devices before shutting down (fan, lights, wipers, etc), then shut down.

I immediately turn the ignition back on (but not crank), and they are reset! So, clearly, it is not the DROP in voltage needed for cranking that causes the reset. And if the clock and trip meter need more voltage than cranking amps to maintain memory, just shoot me

My battery is not strong, but the car starts right up every time. And if they reset in seconds after shut down, without cranking, it just can't be the battery.

So I am thinking ignition switch?

Is this the 2003 ALH?
If so, kill it leaving the switch in run, by closing the ASV and see what happens.

I think it may be due to a voltage spike from the alternator on shutdown, and this would help figure it out. Of course doing it this way will still leave some engine management loads on - go ahead and manually shutdown all the other loads as you have been doing.

I would clean my battery terminals and grounds. Not inspect them. clean them.

DanG144 said:

Is this the 2003 ALH?
If so, kill it leaving the switch in run, by closing the ASV and see what happens.
...

Click to expand...

Yes, the '03 ALH. I don't know what ASV means, but assume it is the valve that shuts down the intake to stop the engine (also for preventing run-away?). Is there a thread with a pic of the ASV?

So, I block the intake (or use the ASV) to shut it down, then go into the cab and observe the clock and trip meter. If they have reset, obviously NOT the ignition switch causing the reset. They should still be on, but maybe not reset. It's a good test to rule out the ignition switch. Where is the ASV, and how do I use it to shut down the engine?

Yes, that is the valve. It is located in the valve assembly bolted onto the aluminum intake manifold, top aft in the engine compartment. There are two valves. This is the one that has a horizontal shaft. Just reach between the intake and the fire wall, you will find a vacuum operator. Just turn the shaft 90 degrees and hold it.

The Anti Shudder Valve.

Pretty easy to figure out.

I'm going to guess stalling the engine with the ASV should leave the time correct.
I was thinking something in the ignition switch but the clock has continuous power.
Then it came to me if there was a bad ground in the dash circuit its possible another device could send some power to the clock ground causing it to have low enough voltage to cut out.
In theory?

Not consistent!

Well that was easy. The ASV is certainly an easy way to stop an idling ALH.

So what happened? The clock and trip meter DID NOT reset when shut down with the ASV. Oil light on. This much WAS consistent.

I did this a few times running errands. After observing they were NOT reset, I turned the key off, but DID NOT pull it out-no "click" to release the lock pin for steering lock (trip meter and clock both disappear and dash icons out, but key still in the ignition)... Then I turned it back on and STILL NO RESET.

Hmm. I did this a few times for each test, and the trip meter and clock DID NOT reset. As long as I do not pull the key, they don't reset.

So on the last test, I pulled the key out, put it back in and turned it on. TWICE, this test resulted in NO RESET, both times!
But...

Then I tried a third time and it DID reset and ding, ding (not sure which alert, maybe seat belt?). SO inconsistent result there!? Not sure capacitance or a timer is at work there (seems unlikely, but possible).

So This might implicate the ignition switch, but I am not quite convinced. I know that there are many systems linked to the ignition switch. The radio should stay on until the door is opened, for instance. But my driver door switch to activate this feature is failed. I have to turn off the radio manually.

The ignition switch can be very cheap (as low as $6.30 for a URO PARTS Brand at Rock Auto), which might be perfect for a test. They also have Beck/Arnley, about $14, and two that are about $42 (Airtex Wells and Standard Automotive). It is possible that a spade connector on that switch is oxidized and just needs working/cleaning (or bad ground as Wonneber suggested). Or it may not be the switch at all. This makes the $6.30 URO PARTS switch an attractive test switch. I would think that a new cheap switch should work long enough for the test! Any ideas based on the results of the tests?

Well I think you're getting close. Did you ever do a full scan?
I noticed the OP (old thread) says his went away when he replaced a wheel sensor.

Different behavior with key shut down!

If I shut down using the ASV instead of the ignition key/switch, the clock/trip meter do not reset. Can turn off, turn on, and still not reset- But pull out the key, usually resets.

BUT, turn off using the key, it resets even if you do not pull out the key!

I'll do some more testing and will get a full scan tonight.

dubStrom said:

Then I tried a third time and it DID reset and ding, ding (not sure which alert, maybe seat belt?). SO inconsistent result there!? Not sure capacitance or a timer is at work there (seems unlikely, but possible).

So This might implicate the ignition switch, but I am not quite convinced. I know that there are many systems linked to the ignition switch.

Click to expand...

Doesn't removing the key turn on the dome lights?
Do they look full brightness?
Sounds like you are on the right track.
I'm still wondering about a bad ground feeding back.

another twist

So I tried turning it off with the ignition yesterday (did not remove the key). Then I turned it on and as I watched, it showed the accumulated miles/time for a moment, then reset!

I did drive it late at night yesterday but did not notice/check if the dome light turned on when I pulled the key, or how bright it may have been.

OK. I also have a bad switch in the driver door (radio stays on when I open the door). Unfortunately that is lots of work since you have to remove the window regulator. Replacement part is over $150. And, replacing the ignition switch is not that big of a job. So I am just going to start with an ignition switch, and begin checking voltages on fuses, pulling replacing fuses for contact, cleaning accessible connections over the battery.

When this work does NOT fix it I will aim at that stupid door switch. Maybe I can replace the microswitch only (saw this strategy in another thread).

Oh, and the passenger door does not unlock with any normal method (switch in driver door, key fob). Must open the door for my wife by leaning over and opening it with the lever. Gee.

dubStrom said:

So I tried turning it off with the ignition yesterday (did not remove the key). Then I turned it on and as I watched, it showed the accumulated miles/time for a moment, then reset!

I did drive it late at night yesterday but did not notice/check if the dome light turned on when I pulled the key, or how bright it may have been.

OK. I also have a bad switch in the driver door (radio stays on when I open the door). Unfortunately that is lots of work since you have to remove the window regulator. Replacement part is over $150. And, replacing the ignition switch is not that big of a job. So I am just going to start with an ignition switch, and begin checking voltages on fuses, pulling replacing fuses for contact, cleaning accessible connections over the battery.

When this work does NOT fix it I will aim at that stupid door switch. Maybe I can replace the microswitch only (saw this strategy in another thread).

Oh, and the passenger door does not unlock with any normal method (switch in driver door, key fob). Must open the door for my wife by leaning over and opening it with the lever. Gee.

Click to expand...

The micro switch is available from Radio Shack but is not water tight.
Only costs a few bucks.
I've seen posts with the part#
I bought one but decided not to use it not being water proof.
There is another thread '$3.00 door fix' or such.
Basically you get a magnetic operated switch and magnet mounting it the door opening but you still have to wire into the door latch wires.
I don't recall if you can access the correct wires by just taking the door panel off or you have to pull the regulator out.
Yes, the latch is expensive, I just replaced mine.
Only took me about a year to find the time to install it.

The red door light in the driver's door turns on and off when I open/close the driver door, and so does the overhead light. And the "door ajar" warning on the center display also responds to that switch, and it's working too, so that switch on the door latch is OK for now. When I pull the key out, the overhead light turns on too.

But the radio does not turn off when I open the door, even though those lights respond. Is it supposed to turn off? I know it did in my 2014 Sportwagen. Why wouldn't that be triggered by the same microswitch in the door lock module (which DOES turns on the red lower door light and overhead light-AND the door ajar warning in the center display!?!). Given that... the trip meter/clock reset issue seems to imply ignition switch issue or bad ground or bad connection. Relly not sure how it could be the egnition switch, but it resets when I turn the ignition switch off and on, so

I ordered a Beck/Arnley ignition switch, and a rear window wiper blade from Rock Auto. Not too sure about the durability of the B/A switch, but it will either fix it or not for about $15 !

btw- I think this is the thread you mentioned about the microswitch replacement (dome light and door light signal):
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=77648

Here is a nice YOUTUBE video on this module
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5dtdyDDgrw
If you follow this link to youtube there are many videos on the MK4 door latches. Some are good, all together they really help understand the thing. I think I will just work on mine if it fails.

Stock or aftermarket stereo?

UhOh said:

Stock or aftermarket stereo?

Click to expand...

Stock.

I am going to look at fuses. I read on another thread that fuse 15 (might be a different one on a wagon) might be blown. But nothing doesn't light up or appear to have power. How can a fuse for the trip meter and clock blow and then the clock and trip meter "work" when it's running. Can the power for these be passed to a separate circuit when you shut down? But even that doesn't make sense since I see the accumulated miles and time briefly upon key on, and reset milliseconds later?

Kind of seems like a flaky relay.

Here's a list of relays. There's one there that seems like it could be involve. Hint: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3987112-Load-reduction-Relay (read the last posting)

UhOh said:

Kind of seems like a flaky relay.

Here's a list of relays. There's one there that seems like it could be involve. Hint: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3987112-Load-reduction-Relay (read the last posting)

Click to expand...

Yep. I am pretty sure my ignition switch replacement won't do anything to fix this. But I don't understand why the trip meter and clock would have power cut during start. I thought that they needed power all the time for memory. It is small voltage that could be supplied by a capacitor when the load reduction relay cuts power. WHen you turn on the ignition, maybe power is switch to that capacitor pathway, and THAT's when it fails.

Maybe THAT's it... the capacitor that provides power is burnt out. I wonder which module would have such a capacitor. Maybe it is in load reduction module, or maybe in the dash panel display itself.

OEM VW Parts list for relays on the fuse box:
https://parts.vw.com/a/Volkswagen_2...55_5953042/ELECTRICAL-COMPONENTS/9277207.html

I do not see it here. Must have another name.

Here it is at Hans:
https://www.hansautoparts.com/7M0951253AOEMRelay.aspx
Cheap enough for a blind hail mary

BUT, I am going to check fuses first. Another unlikely rabbit hole, but easy to do, and what the heck do I know!?

Any updates? My 02 Jetta is doing everything described in this thread. I've cleaned the grounds under the battery tray, battery terminals as well etc. Fuses are all good. Still need to pull of the wheels to check those sensors. Odometer zeros out as soon as I turn the key off.