Water Methanol injection on a TDI?

you need to put it on a dyno and have it tuned to go any further.

I run a Coolingmist progressive kit on my 2.5PD and it's on a size 7 nozzle running a 50:50 mix (by volume).
On diesel only my van Dyno'd at 300hp and 335hp with the water/meths on.

I tried to put two 500 cc injectors, improved acceleration by 0.2-0.3 seconds in the range of 100-150km / h. This makes me happy.
Mixture 45 (Methyl) 55 (water). But EGT turned out without injection at all. This is an ideal mixture, without changing the EGT but with an increase in power. I would like to ask you if I will pour a mixture of 20 (methyl): 80 (water), lower the EGT from 930 Celsius to 820 Celsius, and supplement this difference with a large amount of fuel, returning the EGT temperature to 930, will it be more dynamic in difference from this temperature but also a mixture of 45:55? Thank!

I'm considering adding Water/Meth to my car to keep the EGTs in check. I primarily use the car for HPDE(track days) and would like to keep the EGTs to around 1500F, since they currently push into the 1600+ range on the straightaways. I'm open to other suggestions as well. Here's the car I'd like to install the W/M kit on incase you aren't familiar with my car. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=442967

Here are some of the options I've found. Ranked in the order of 1st choice to last choice.
https://cppdiesel.com/snow-45006-power-max-vw-tdi-dieselwater-methanol-injection/
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/universal/520-dvc-30-stage-2a.html#/carburator_spacer_upgrade-no_thanks/solenoid_upgrade-yes/stainless_steel_line_upgrade-yes_black_ends/tank_and_float_switch-2_25_gallon_race_tank_black_lid
https://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-063-hfs3-v3-1-system-a-truly-progressive-system-utilising-pwm-valve/?setCurrencyId=2

Thanks for taking the time help me figure out what my best option is.

I never had any luck with W/M I've used it for many years, even with stronger head bolts than ARP, it lift the head and head gasket is a goner, no matter a what kind of injector i use , setting or W/M concentration on my alh I was using it still messed up the gasket, now I still have the W/M unit installed but it is turned off completely, I got tired of pulling the head and replacing the head gasket, good luck to the rest that would like to experiment with it

nitrous is always the answer

MAXRPM said:

I never had any luck with W/M I've used it for many years, even with stronger head bolts than ARP, it lift the head and head gasket is a goner, no matter a what kind of injector i use , setting or W/M concentration on my alh I was using it still messed up the gasket, now I still have the W/M unit installed but it is turned off completely, I got tired of pulling the head and replacing the head gasket, good luck to the rest that would like to experiment with it

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So it sounds like you wouldn't recommend installing a W/M kit after all the troubles you've had. It's great to hear from people that have actually run a W/M kit to hear about their real world experiences, whether they're good or bad.

Owain@malonetuning said:

nitrous is always the answer

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I'm not a 100% sure what you mean by nitrous is always the answer, but my one guess is that I've heard of it being sprayed in front of the intercooler to cool the air going through the intercooler, far lower than what the outside air can do alone.

Did I guess right or did I completely miss the mark?

If you had something else in mind for what the nitrous would be used for, I'm all ears. Just trying to come up with a way to help the car run a little bit cooler at the track.

Wmi on a street car will always bring problems. Run it for cooling not for fueling. Small nozzle after the IC should help bring down IAT a lot, 40-60 to 50-50 % mixture.

With efficient turbocharging and charge air cooling IAT shouldn't be a problem. However water (only) injection is good for reducing piston thermal load and EGT.

Not sure if it's been posted or not but wanted to share something I've learned about WI or WMI. In regards to the Bio/WVO/blend/etc users, water or WM injection does a great job of cleaning cylinders of any coking/carbon.

I knew a guy using it on his MB 250D with a generic air/water mister for outside cooling in the heat, tapped into his intake, hooked up to a switch he mounted behind his pedal. Every time he'd WOT he'd get some (albeit poorly atomized) water which kept everything remarkably clean in there.

It may work with with low boost applications, but if you have a high boost I know for a fact you'd lift your head, and it is true that methanol has a great cleaning agent your cylinder and intake would be cleaned and shiny inside, but it is hard to keep the head in one place, I do not recommend it, get all the cooling aids like big FMIC, wrapping pipes and so on, members that have used it I know they paid the price on their gaskets.

Tractor pulling guys say anything under 4 bar is vacuum so I don't have any experience of high boost applications yet. 50/50 blend with low boost (3.8 bar / 55 psi) worked well for me. Maybe this year it's time for high boost.

We are talking car engines not trucks

My "truck" has 1.9 TDI.

been thinking on this stuff, since I'm totally outta fuel with a 12mm pump and .360 injectors it makes sense to dump a little more bang into the intake.
Clearly you'd want to keep it under the lower flammability limit, which with methanol is 6.7% (ethanol is 3%) to alleviate any detonation concerns. Keep it only burning once the fuel's being injected and all...

so spitballing numbers around, the he351 is prolly moving something like 40lb/min which means 2.4lb/min of methanol will remain underneath the lower flammability limit
it is 6.6lb/gal so that'd be 0.36 gallons/min, call it half a gallon a minute when cut 50:50 with water

That seems like an awful lot compared to what most kits are doing, with AEM's kit topping out at a liter a minute... Is my math even remotely reasonable?

500 cubic feet of air can make over 700 horsepower in a gasser. So, you are approaching about 500 HP and 900 lbft? It seems like you should be able to get more out of a 12mm since it is 19% bigger than the 11mm.
I have seen a WMI pump say 1 GPM open flow. 0.4 GPM of gasoline produces 300 HP so methanol would be 250 HP. You would be looking at 250 of the gasser's original 700 HP from methanol.

I have never seen a true progressive controller that uses engine RPM and PSI. You also need to turn back your numbers from max turbo output.

Houpty GT said:

500 cubic feet of air can make over 700 horsepower in a gasser. So, you are approaching about 500 HP and 900 lbft? It seems like you should be able to get more out of a 12mm since it is 19% bigger than the 11mm.
I have seen a WMI pump say 1 GPM open flow. 0.4 GPM of gasoline produces 300 HP so methanol would be 250 HP. You would be looking at 250 of the gasser's original 700 HP from methanol.

I have never seen a true progressive controller that uses engine RPM and PSI. You also need to turn back your numbers from max turbo output.

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I never like estimating power numbers outta input flows. My LTD is moving 600hp worth of air and fuel, but I doubt it is making 400.

Dunno, no smoke with 5v across the QA, 8-10 PSI at the pump inlet, so I assume I'm just outta fuel in the hard parts I've got. There really isn't "more injector" to be had without going to cummins nozzles, the DSS .360s are crap, but everything big kinda is crap, I'm told the .460 or whatever gibontas don't even flow more... There isn't more pump to be had without going to an inline pump and losing all timing and fuel control. Might be able to glom on an EDC15 governor from a mercedes pump, but that only nets me fuel control...

You do have a good point about walking back the airflow numbers from 'max theoretical', guys with 6bts are reporting flowrates around 55lb/min with these, so I already cut it back a bit, but I am only making 20 PSI interstage, 45-55 in the intake. It'd make more boost if I could get more fuel in there. Was figuring on just having it set up to a button like you'd run a nitrous kit. Run it up to where it's going flat out and only then push the button to scatter the engine. Maybe run a 40 psi pressure switch inline to keep it from being pushed at low load where it'd doubtless get well up around stoich...

Houpty GT said:

500 cubic feet of air can make over 700 horsepower in a gasser. So, you are approaching about 500 HP and 900 lbft? It seems like you should be able to get more out of a 12mm since it is 19% bigger than the 11mm.
I have seen a WMI pump say 1 GPM open flow. 0.4 GPM of gasoline produces 300 HP so methanol would be 250 HP. You would be looking at 250 of the gasser's original 700 HP from methanol.

I have never seen a true progressive controller that uses engine RPM and PSI. You also need to turn back your numbers from max turbo output.

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Please do not mind the friendly lady near the bottom. She got wet from all the water and is not safe for work. Great content on high performance WMI though.

I have actually created my own injection system that doesn’t use a Shurflo, since he is right about the big, stupid pumps.

Any problems using meth on a CJAA or CR140/170? For example headgasket or any other problem? Planning to install one next year on my CJAA. Right now is stage 3 Xman cr170 hybrid, cp3, s3 IC.