Jetta SportWagen TDI - the best all-around car ever made?

OK, I've only had the car a few days, so it's a little premature for over-the-top praise, but...

First, a confession. A JSW was not even on my radar 3 weeks ago. I thought my next car would be a GTI. Then I started thinking rationally - maybe I should get something that could do double-duty as a legitimate family hauler to keep our gas hog of a Honda Pilot home in the garage whenever possible. The next thing I know, I find myself with a brand new Salsa Red JSW TDI parked in my garage, wondering how in the world I ended up with a station wagon (coming from a MINI Cooper S cabrio, and a Miata before that).

Turns out to be a pleasant surprise. And the more I ponder this car, the more I wonder if it isn't, in fact, the best car all-around car ever made. Consider the facts:

Seats 5 (if snugly)
Cargo capacity galore
Rock-solid feel and top-notch interior quality
Genuinely fun to drive
That totally-connected-to-the-road feel only the Germans seem to be able to provide (and normally at a very high price)
Looks good - sporty even (still not digging the taillights though - why didn't they just use the attractive rear from the new Golf???)
Plenty of power on tap
Sub-$30k

OK, so maybe there have been plenty of automobiles over the years that come close to matching the JSW on the points above. But here comes the knockout blow:

45+ MPG freeway

Seriously, how is this possible? All the good stuff that makes a car enjoyable, stellar utility and killer gas mileage too? Astounding. Most the vehicles that compete with the JSW don't even crack the 30 MPG freeway barrier. There is nothing on the market I can find that is truly competitive with the JSW TDI. Nothing.

My question is: why aren't more people buying this car?

Of course there are a few cons that accompany those pros, mainly (and of no small consequence) dubious long-term reliability. If VW could figure that one out, they would have the closest thing to automotive perfection we have yet seen. Oh, and fix those taillights!

I will agree 100% except the JSW/Golf wagon TDI is maybe the "best all around car ever made" under 30K that "we can buy in North America". I am sure the Golf Estate TDI wagon or whatever they call it in Europe is pretty average....

Compare my 2k10 Golf Wagon TDI to my other car, the 06 MkI Mini Cooper:

1) The Mini still looks better, but the Golf is not bad at all.

2) the Golf Wagon TDI has more room.

3) the Golf Wagon TDI has more hp.

4) the Golf Wagon TDI has more torque.

5) the Golf Wagon TDI has better bucket seat.

6) the Golf Wagon TDI has much better fuel economy. The best I could do in the NA Mini is around 700km/50L tank on full highway, I easily do 900km/55L of diesel in mix city/hwy driving in the TDI and in Canada, premium shell v-power diesel is cheaper than shell regular gas and the Mini can't use regular gas).

7) My 2010 Golf Wagon TDI doesn't necessarily has worse handling than my Mini. My Golf is stiff, I don't know why, I am very surprise to find that the wagon feels very sporty, much stiffer than the 09 Jetta TDI I test drove. It's not as stiff as my Mini with sports suspension but it's good enough, it's actually too good for a wagon. The way VW Canada set up this car's suspension, it's almost as good as many BMWs. I am not sure about the suspension set up the US JSW TDI comes with, but I don't plan on modifying the suspension.

8) Golf Wagon TDI has more gears, the Mini has CVT, so only 1 gear.

9) Golf Wagon TDI is cheaper, fully loaded with extended warranty, it's still cheaper than my Mini.

10) Golf Wagon TDI is cleaner than Mini Cooper, less Co2, less pollution. I got some PST tax credit for the TDI but nothing from the Mini.

I have to say the MkI Mini does have better interior detail and all the bits and pcs in the Mini are designed with more premium feel. The Mini also feels slightly better built, more solid than the TDI wagon. My family has owned BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, the Mini feels more German than the Golf TDI.

Anyway, the JSW/Golf wagon TDI is a "GREAT" car. A lot of people are missing on these turbo diesel. This is my first diesel and I can say that except for high performance car (M3, Z06 that kind of car), it is hard for me to consider another gas car.

We'll know in 3-4 years if this Mk5.5 version is as reliable as we all wish it can be.

I agree because I own one. I own one because I agree.

sportwagen rick said:

I agree because I own one. I own one because I agree.

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+1. Perfectly stated.

P.

sportwagen rick said:

I agree because I own one. I own one because I agree.

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+2

I don't know about best-overall car ever made because that is quite subjective, but I do agree that the JSW is quite utilitarian and a great value. Now if it came with awd and skid-plates for some off-roading, I would have to say that it would be the best overall car ever made

I previously had a Chevy Tahoe (family hauler) and a MKV GTI (daily driver) and I bought the JSW because I felt it would be able to handle both duties effectively. I must say that it has been up to the challenge so far. Just this weekend I took myself, my wife, my baby-son, my mom, and my cousin (probably ~850lbs of people and gear) on a 200-mile trip and averaged 37mpg with the a/c on! I might of got 19mpg with the Tahoe previously.

It depends on what’s the most important to you, if mileage is number one than your correct, I purchased a 2010 Passat wagon a few months back and could not be happier, it’s larger and wider and has more options standard then the Jetta. When you upgrade a few Jetta wagon options your right at the same price and for our driving the Passat 2.0 was a better deal and we are getting over 35 gpm hw and over 30 overall. The jetta will resale much better if you plan on trading but a lot depend on how this HPFP issue works out. I still have a 98 TDI with over 250 k so it was not an easy choice to go to gas. I agree both are great vehicles and we are very pleased with our Passat how conformable the seats are on long trips, which was our number one concern with our new purchase old retired folks. At least we stayed in the VW family. Best of luck and enjoy your new VW.

Glad you like it. And it's possible that the JSW will be seen as a great car. But I think it'll take 10-20 years before we'll know for sure. I think one thing the JSW is missing compared to other great cars is innovation. Aside from the emissions systems it's not exactly leading edge.

Many people feel the W123 and W124 Mercedes diesels are some of the best cars ever made. Over-engineered, extraordinary quality, efficient, durable, and pleasant to drive. And of course there are lots of other candidates, too.

I'm inclined to think my '02 wagon is the best car I've ever owned, at least. I've kept it longer than any other car in part because of its reliability and durability, but also because I still enjoy it. In the past I've traded cars mostly because I grew tired of them. Not so with IBW.

Once you set past a couple of the design issues with the 2004-05 TDI Passat Wagon, it's a formidable car for all purposes (on asphalt, of course). Plus, it is sitting on an Audi A4 chassis and doesn't come with an HPFP and the DPF emissions gear. I've driven both wagons, and the Passat is my choice for now. (Lug_Nut will chime in here...)

But I am LOOKING for a diesel MB for selfish purposes...

fastalan said:

I have to say the MkI Mini does have better interior detail and all the bits and pcs in the Mini are designed with more premium feel.

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Better detail yes, but I have to disagree with you on the premium feel. I love my '05 Cooper S, but the interior quality is not on par with the Jetta. The climate control switches feel particularly cheap and cheesy (I don't have the automatic climate control option). The turn signal stalk, my typical measuring stick for interior attention-to-quality, has that common "feels like it's going to break when you click it" that also plagued my Miata. The Jetta's is rock solid and feels satisfying to engage.

steveditt said:

It depends on what’s the most important to you, if mileage is number one than your correct, I purchased a 2010 Passat wagon a few months back and could not be happier, it’s larger and wider and has more options standard then the Jetta.

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aja8888 said:

Once you set past a couple of the design issues with the 2004-05 TDI Passat Wagon, it's a formidable car for all purposes (on asphalt, of course).

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I agree, the Passat wagon is also a fantastic choice. Too bad they don't sell the TDI version in the States anymore.

I loved my 2000 Passat. I possibly would have bought a Passat wagon this time if 1) it was offered with a TDI, and 2) it didn't look quite so...awkward? That's the general malaise of wagons, which the JSW somehow manages to avoid. Mostly. Despite the frumpy taillights' best effort to ruin the whole thing.

The current Jetta seems the true replacement for my 2000 Passat as the current Passat has gone decidedly upscale in the interior design. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not exactly the vibe I was going for.

I know you're talking about the latest MK6 variant but the core qualities you cite also apply to most, if not all, TDI's. The performance vs economy, road feel, features, quality, value I feel all apply to my Mk4 as well. It's a solid, good feeling, full featured and fun to drive car that gets exceptional mileage... all at a reasonable price. What's not to like??

Passat Wagon is nice too ... longer wheel base, even more room. The current Passat has very mature, professional and elegant styling.

There really aren't too many main stream sporty type wagon in the market these days. I was also looking at the manual Mini Cooper Clubman since I had the choice to trade in the 06 Mini. In the end, the TDI wagon is a better car than the Mini Clubman. So 06 Mini can stay for wife, manual TDI for me only !

Did you buy the red with tan interior from strong vw in slc??
I ordered my white one from them and I was in there a couple weeks ago and saw they had a red one on the lot..

Jetta SportWagen TDI - the best all-around car ever made?

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24,000 miles on mine in 8 months. Yes.

16,000 miles in 8 months and I agree it meets and even exceeds many,many of my expectations in a car. I've never owned a VW but after researching long and hard for a versatile driving machine, the JSW rose to the top.

I installed a skid plate this weekend, so now I can travel with even greater confidence. I thought my '98 Saab was the best car I ever owned, but my JSW has me thinking that this is my "best".

+1, except chop of 13" on the back and i got myself a GOLF TDI

39815 mils - purchased on November 21st. I absolutely love my JSW. I am very lucky to have a vehicle with no issues unlike some of the posters here.

It's a nice car. I like my JSW, but I'm under no illusions that it's the most amazing vehicle ever, or that it handles great, has an amazing soul, or that I would want to marry it.

Good fuel economy, good cargo space, beats the heck out of a SUV in my book.

I have mine for less than a months and a really like it. It's my first VW ever and I do admit that i'm a little bit afraid.

I already have 3 minor things to repair. One is my rear window. I also have the wiper that are going to far in the Window and touch the frame (driver side). The last thing is very anoying, is the whistle noise (wind noise) coming from the windshield or somewhere else. Sometimes and think it comes from passenger side, some ohers from the driver side so not really sure and even if I can hear it very often, I cannot reproduce it everytime. Anyway, need to call the dealer this week about those problems.

But I really love the torque that the car can provide, the cargo and the fuel economy of course. Still very impressed that I did 925 km with my last tank while I did a lot of city driving and a lot of short distance, and also high speed on the highway.

The car is perfect, but fiabilily is what i'm afraid of!

Best ever? Close, but...

Langhorne/Farnham JSW w. 8k so far w. no problems.

That said, had '97 Passat TDI (and vet member brother Mike still has TWO, wagon AND sedan), which had more front and rear seat leg room,
4 gallons more fuel capacity (if you go by manuf stats - was actually 6 more in sedan and TWELVE addl gallons in Passat TDI wagon).
Was Passat TDI perfect? No; ask long-term owners about constant window and door handle fixes, dashboard/odometer issues, and the legendarily horrendous front cup-holder...but as long distance, economical, 49.9 mpg (on trip Lake George to Hampton Beach and back) vehicle, had, and has, no peer. So, naturally, VW made them for two years and walked away. Priceless...and typical of VW Corporate...

And while we're criticizing/suggesting, why isn't there a 2011 Golf-based
Mk.VI TDI pickup truck, in regular, extended, and 4 door models? VW would only sell about 50k/year; presently has nothing to compete with other marques, and no one else makes anything close, mileage-wise...
But then, VW MUST know more than I do...
Excelsior,
nyrasgt

CDubber said:

My question is: why aren't more people buying this car?

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'cause one can buy a comparable car under 20K.

it may not be as fuel efficient or its suspension may not be turned for autobahns (which we don't have in US anyway), but it'll be more reliable and can be had for under 20K.

some people buy on quality / perceived cost of ownership rather than emotions and feelings.

I understand you may have come down from SUV to JSW and consider it is a big leap, but others may not consider it as big if they go for Elantra Touring, Impreza or Outback.

IIRC, Hyundai was the only brand with increased sales in June compared to May, while June was the 1st time VWoA gave a cash ($500) incentive for JSW TDI in over 14 months (even with economy in arguably better shape than in June 2009). still even with that + tax credit halving deadline, it managed to sell 2516 JSW in June, just 5 more than in May. from another perspective JSW May 2010 sales increased ~53% vs. May 2009, while June 2010 went up ~28% vs. June 2009.

the short answer to your question - 'cause of combination of JSW TDI price, VW reliability, cost of parts + repair and customer service.

btw, I'm still looking to buy a JSW TDI for my target price, the best offer I've got shortly before June 30 deadline was ~1600 below invoice + 0% APR (with $500 credit proc. fee, but their credit was optional), that brings selling price for base JSW TDI just under 23K, such a departure from last 2 years of 26-28K range.

I am really enjoying the car, but I do see some warts.

The spartan dealer network of generally incompetent half-wits really scares me, even more so because of the poor reliability issues, HPFP meltdowns, and what seems to be an intolerance to ULSD variations. It really doesn't have the cargo capacity that I had hoped for. I really wanted to replace my SUV (Expedition), but it can't realistically pull that off. The brakes are spongy, non-linear, and just plain freaky. The throttle is quirky, road noise is a bit on the high side, handling is nice, but not spectacular, and rear-passenger leg room is basically useless.

I know I can pony up more $$$ and correct many of these negatives, but that really defeats the point.

It sounds like I'm coming down hard on the car, but I really do like it. However, I can't think of it in terms of "best ever" because it had so many small issues that add up.

53 willys said:

Did you buy the red with tan interior from strong vw in slc??

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No, I wanted red with black interior. Strong had sold that very car before it was even pulled off the truck. Fortunately I found the exact same car at Cutrubus and jumped on it as that combo was not to be seen in stock at any local dealer for several more months.

Now I'll just pray on my pillow every night that this HPFP issue doesn't become a widespread plague that either 1) affects my own car, or 2) affects enough cars to destroy resale value and leave me stuck with a ticking time bomb.

I hope VW will stand behind its customers and its product.

Biffster said:

I am really enjoying the car, but I do see some warts.

.....

I really wanted to replace my SUV (Expedition), but it can't realistically pull that off.

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and rear-passenger leg room is basically useless.

.....

It sounds like I'm coming down hard on the car, but I really do like it. However, I can't think of it in terms of "best ever" because it had so many small issues that add up.

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Of course no vehicle is perfect. And of course you're not going to find anything with Expedition-like cargo capacity and rear-leg room that does 45 MPG on the freeway.

Compromises.

As for useless rear seat room, try my MINI Cooper. I can comfortably sit in the back seat of the JSW behind the driver's seat set to my normal driving position (I'm 5'11"). That pretty much meets my criteria for usable rear seat room.

(And I'm retaining my Honda Pilot for the areas where the JSW falls short - I just hope to drive the Pilot a lot less.)

Artist : wow, I saw your fuel consumption in your signature, very impressive! What is your average speed (and gear) to be so fuel efficient? Give me your secrets

lexa said:

'cause one can buy a comparable car under 20K.

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"Comparable?" Can you name some?

lexa said:

it may not be as fuel efficient or its suspension may not be turned for autobahns (which we don't have in US anyway), but it'll be more reliable and can be had for under 20K.

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Simply being an "automobile" doesn't make it "comparable." Yes, there are plenty of sub-$20k vehicles out there (I've owned a few myself). But how many of those have the interior quality or driving solidity of a VW? How many of those have the cargo capacity of a JSW? How many of those can do 45 MPG on the freeway while pulling away from a stop light with gusto?

lexa said:

some people buy on quality / perceived cost of ownership rather than emotions and feelings.

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So your implication is buying a VW is irrational?

lexa said:

I understand you may have come down from SUV to JSW and consider it is a big leap, but others may not consider it as big if they go for Elantra Touring, Impreza or Outback.

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I considered the Outback. Comparably priced with the JSW, about the same cargo space, more rear leg room, more ground clearance, AWD, bleh interior and that road-appliance driving feel (or lack thereof) of a Japanese auto (of which I've had plenty). And the JSW destroys it in fuel economy.
If one needs AWD or ground clearance, or if you're into butch plastic body cladding (), the Outback is clearly the way to go.
But the Subie hardly fares little better than my Honda Pilot in the MPG department.

If you really want to worry about good fuel in these 09-10's with sensitive HPFP's, get a load of the sticker on this Texaco diesel pump:



Good luck fellows....

Swatch said:

Artist : wow, I saw your fuel consumption in your signature, very impressive! What is your average speed (and gear) to be so fuel efficient? Give me your secrets

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His fuelly page is messed up. if you follow the link, you can see where he had a 140 MPG fillup on 5/19, and the fillups since haven't calculated his MPG.

CDubber said:

"Comparable?" Can you name some?

Simply being an "automobile" doesn't make it "comparable." Yes, there are plenty of sub-$20k vehicles out there (I've owned a few myself). But how many of those have the interior quality or driving solidity of a VW? How many of those have the cargo capacity of a JSW? How many of those can do 45 MPG on the freeway while pulling away from a stop light with gusto?

So your implication is buying a VW is irrational?

I considered the Outback. Comparably priced with the JSW, about the same cargo space, more rear leg room, more ground clearance, AWD, bleh interior and that road-appliance driving feel (or lack thereof) of a Japanese auto (of which I've had plenty). And the JSW destroys it in fuel economy.
If one needs AWD or ground clearance, or if you're into butch plastic body cladding (), the Outback is clearly the way to go.
But the Subie hardly fares little better than my Honda Pilot in the MPG department.

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those 3 were on top of my head - Elantra Touring, Impreza, Outback, I am sure there are others.

none of them has all traits JSW TDI has, but it is not a requirement for comparison. I would not even argue that any of them is better than JSW TDI, just that for many they are less than 15% worse and that's where JSW TDI price premium kills the deal for them.

nope, I act rationally, everything has its price in the beholder's eye, even JSW TDI.

p.s. as far as JSW TDI interior, I am not imressed at all, it may be of great quality but (central console) looks cheap, maybe not lowest economy but not a trace of luxury either.

p.p.s. i've owned Outback for 10 years, just replaced dreaded HG, will keep it even if I buy JSW TDI.

the interior door handles bug me. they're made from some kind of crappy plastic and they feel like they're going to break when i shut the door. annoying because I have to touch it every time i get into the vehicle. It's a shame because most of the interior feels solid.

lexa said:

those 3 were on top of my head - Elantra Touring, Impreza, Outback, I am sure there are others.

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Outback isn't sub-$20k. Impreza is - barely - until you add a couple of options. Hyundai - meh. Cheap - and it shows.

lexa said:

none of them has all traits JSW TDI has, but it is not a requirement for comparison.

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You didn't say "comparison" - you said "comparable."

And while the Hyundai may indeed be sub-$20k, I don't know that I'd call it "comparable" to a JSW, any more than I'd call a JSW "comparable" to a BMW 328i Sports Wagon.

lexa said:

p.s. as far as JSW TDI interior, I am not imressed at all, it may be of great quality but (central console) looks cheap, maybe not lowest economy but not a trace of luxury either.

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I think the interior has a very BMW-esque quality/simplicity. I'd happily compare it to anything the Japanese are doing at this price point and find it superior. I do hate the piano black trim around the stereo and climate controls. Real dust magnets. I'm glad they did away with the rubberized coating on the door handles and other assorted bits - that stuff started to peel away on my 2000 Passat after just a couple of years and looked horrible.

I used to really like Japanese interiors (though always found the German stuff better), but lately the Japanese seem to be going American-cheap on their interiors (while the Americans are moving toward German-expensive, go figure). The new Honda Pilot interior is just awful compared to my 2004 model. And the interior of my mother-in-law's 2004 Camry feels much cheaper than the interior of her previous 1994 Camry. And the 2010 models feel pretty tacky too.

lexa said:

p.p.s. i've owned Outback for 10 years, just replaced dreaded HG, will keep it even if I buy JSW TDI.

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I'm hoping to get 10 good catastrophe-free years out of my JSW. Always a crapshoot with VW.