Are these new Passats junk or not junk?

I've been reading just about every thread on here about problems experienced with the 2012-2014 Passats. We're considering one as a new family vehicle to replace our 2008 Impreza, which is a piece of junk (rusty, noisy, flimsy, burns oil like a city bus, etc).

The Passat appeals to us due to the huge cabin, 6 speed manual, TDI mileage and diesel longevity.

Is it a case of everything looking worse on the internet, or are these lemons?

I remember when I bought my 2000 Jetta at 160K miles twelve years ago, they were still very new and I was coming from a MK2 1.6D. I was terrified of the newfangled TDI technology and "all them wires". As it nears 400K, I haven't done anything to it except maintenance (a lot of it) and cost per mile is less than the bus.

I don't think it's fair to expect anvil-like reliability from something with so many acronyms (DPF, SRC, LOL, etc), but is this worth the price of admission?

Finally, I am in Canada in a jurisdiction with no emissions testing or oversight.

Are you able to do your own work? These are great cars that get amazing mileage, Most complaints are emission related so if you were to do a delete you should avoid the long list of issues except maybe a turbo. I would say pick it up and get that VW check!

I have the same question as I consider whether to keep my 2012 Passat or let VW buy it back. I have put 23k trouble-free miles on it since buying last October, it now has 95k miles on the odometer. I like everything about it, and 3 weeks ago I'd have told you I am keeping it to 300k miles for sure. But lately I have been thinking how much of a drag it would be to have a $3,000 - $5,000 or more repair for a major component failure, when I could have received what I paid for it plus a grand or two

I wish I knew the overall failure rate for turbos+DPFs+HPFPs. 2-3 %, I'd keep it and take my chances. 10-15%, I'd give it back. Does anyone know if those stats are tracked somewhere?

BTW I enjoy doing the normal maintenance myself, and will make sure timing belt and other more complicated stuff is done on schedule at a good shop. I am not an aggressive driver at all, do proper warm up on cold days, and leave it in the garage on the coldest winter days. I commute 60 miles round trip daily, with one or two weekly trips over 100 miles.

2013 Passat TDI SEL here. The radio and the ad-blue tank temp sensor failed under warranty, but all in all, it has been a stellar car with no issues that make me regret it.

- Tim

My car went 52k miles without any issues. However, there are a lot of people who did experience problems with this car, from the turbo's, to the diesel particulate filters, to clogged heater cores, etc.

I had lingering concerns in the back of my mind about my known inability to do most of my work on this car. But I subscribed to the "drive more, worry less" mantra. When the news of the buyback hit, it was an opportunity to get out from under the long term concern. But it was a difficult decision, (do nothing, get it fixed, or take the buyback). When the car was wrecked while I was asleep (guy fell asleep and hit my parked car), fate had decided for me.

The adblue heater and door lock actuator have failed on my 2013 TDI SEL in the past few months.

Ours is not.

TIG said:

I've been reading just about every thread on here about problems experienced with the 2012-2014 Passats. We're considering one as a new family vehicle to replace our 2008 Impreza, which is a piece of junk (rusty, noisy, flimsy, burns oil like a city bus, etc).

The Passat appeals to us due to the huge cabin, 6 speed manual, TDI mileage and diesel longevity.

Is it a case of everything looking worse on the internet, or are these lemons?

I remember when I bought my 2000 Jetta at 160K miles twelve years ago, they were still very new and I was coming from a MK2 1.6D. I was terrified of the newfangled TDI technology and "all them wires". As it nears 400K, I haven't done anything to it except maintenance (a lot of it) and cost per mile is less than the bus.

I don't think it's fair to expect anvil-like reliability from something with so many acronyms (DPF, SRC, LOL, etc), but is this worth the price of admission?

Finally, I am in Canada in a jurisdiction with no emissions testing or oversight.

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A Subie that is rusty and burns oil? No way! LOL... that is standard equipment! I like the TSBs they issue for oil consumption. First it says replace the rings. Then they say, no, replace the pistons. Then they said to replace the shortblock. Then, finally, they said ah screw it replace the whole engine. LMAO. And then they started spec'ing 0w20 oil.

Anyways, if you are coming from an Impreza, you may find the Golf more to your liking. It (along with the Sportwagon) are still "real" Volkswagens. The NCS Jetta and NMS Passat are sort of diluted Americanized sedans and their price reflects this. They are not *bad* cars at all, just perhaps not as good as your 2000 is/was, which was back when the Jetta was still a Golf with a trunk. The powertrain bits, however, are essentially the same. The NMS Passat through 2014 did use a slightly different engine. Well, OK, it is a lot different as the CKRA engine doesn't really share any parts with the CBEA/CJAA engines in the other 2009-2014 CR cars. But it is of the same family, and in some ways has some improvements, some of which carried over to all the 2015 cars' engines (which were promptly slapped with the banstick).

Really, the NMS Passat TDI stands alone in that it is a somewhat largish sedan (for a Volkswagen), can be had with three pedals, and has hybrid matching fuel economy, yet still has very good real world performance. I'd pick one over any other car like it, or at least as close to it as you could get. Certainly would pick it over a Subaru, LOL.

I just recently did a trip to PEI in my "Automatic" Passat. My mileage for 6,000km was an average of 52Mpg Imperial.
So do not rule out the automatic.

pparks1 said:

My car went 52k miles without any issues. However, there are a lot of people who did experience problems with this car, from the High Pressure Fuel pumps, to the turbo's, to the diesel particulate filters, to clogged heater cores, etc.

I had lingering concerns in the back of my mind about my known inability to do most of my work on this car. But I subscribed to the "drive more, worry less" mantra. When the news of the buyback hit, it was an opportunity to get out from under the long term concern. But it was a difficult decision, (do nothing, get it fixed, or take the buyback). When the car was wrecked while I was asleep (guy fell asleep and hit my parked car), fate had decided for me.

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pparks: For accuracy sake, please edit your remarks to delete the High Pressure Fuel pumps as a problem area, as they are NOT an issue with the NMS Passats. I think the rest of your post is accurate, though.

oilhammer said:

A Subie that is rusty and burns oil? No way! LOL... that is standard equipment! I like the TSBs they issue for oil consumption. First it says replace the rings. Then they say, no, replace the pistons. Then they said to replace the shortblock. Then, finally, they said ah screw it replace the whole engine. LMAO. And then they started spec'ing 0w20 oil. (snip)

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What scares me with Subaru aren't the TSBs - it's what they consider "normal oil consumption". When I was running 5W30 I could pretty much run through a gallon in 3000 miles, I started thinking I'd just start changing out the fitler periodically and stop dumping the oil! This is "normal". I'm now running Rotella 5W40 and it's slowed the "oil injected flat four" down a bit. It's been a very reliable car, like your average washing machine, but the appliance nears the end of its useful life and you can tell.

Part of the reason we are considering the Passat is because it's bigger. The Golf Wagon is another contender but the rear legroom in the Passat is fantastic. We're both tall and it really cuts down on space in the back seat. I agree that it stands alone. The Golf is probably a better car, but the Passat is better for us.

Another factor that I did not anticipate when we bought the Impreza is the user community. I have not been able to get good technical info for the Subaru on forums, and when you do all your own work, it really helps to have access to a good resource. Looking at the quality of the how-tos and technical info on TDIclub, I know that I can take care of any issues without pulling my hair out. I guess the TDIs attract OCD techno-nutzos

The last thing that kind of throws a wrench into the whole thing is the fact that we need AWD. Our private road / driveway could double as a double black diamond ski hill and we get lots of snow. My MK4 will make it up most of the time, but if there is any fresh snow, it's toast (even with studded Gislaved tires).

We'd been eyeing an A4 (still fairly small), Touareg TDI (the timing chains scare me) but after crawling over a Passat 4motion in Europe, I started looking into the compatibility of the 4motion system with the NA Passat and the Golf Wagon. I've cross referenced all the numbers, and if the rear subframes cross over (see my other thread), I am fairly certain that it's relatively easy to convert a Passat to 4motion, using a mix of Passat/CC and Tiguan parts. The only non-standard part would be the driveshaft, which would have to be re-tubed to make it longer (I can do this at home) and balanced. The Golf comes as a 4motion from the factory so it's even easier.

The "business case" would be to get a really nice car (Passat or Golf Wagon) at 15K or less (possible here in Quebec), spend 5K on the Haldex conversion, and end up with a 4wd 6 speed Tdi car for the price of a comparable A4 that gets double the mileage. The beauty of the Haldex conversion is that it doesn't actually change that much of the car, and it should not really affect the mileage as it's in fwd when not in use.

I'll save the Haldex stuff for another thread (if we get there), but suffice to say that, if I spend that much time on converting a car, I want it to last a long time.

It's precisely the emissions control stuff that worry me. I guess a delete would be possible but I would rather retain the system if I can. Our commute is 20 miles of highway at high speed, so I suspect the regens would not be an issue.

Bleh, if you are going to go through all that nonsense, do what I am doing and convert a 4mo B5 Passat to diesel. Torsen is far better anyway.

Not sure I really would be bothering with this except I have the car, and I just stumbled across a BHW wreck.

That's the other "easy" option, but it's a lot more work than the Haldex and a lot more invasive too (engine swap, etc). Also, B5s are getting old and Quebec/eastern Ontario isn't kind to cars, nearly all the B5s I see have major corrosion issues in the doors and panels. I could buy a clean US one, but that's some time and effort to find.

Since it will be my wife's car, I wanted to stick with something newer that I could quickly convert. The Golf is a weekend job. Passat is a bit more work, but not much.

tdiatlast said:

pparks: For accuracy sake, please edit your remarks to delete the High Pressure Fuel pumps as a problem area, as they are NOT an issue with the NMS Passats. I think the rest of your post is accurate, though.

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Um, I seem to recall quite a number of forum members who have reported HPFP failures on their Passats. Have I really lost my mind?

Forums are not at accurate indicator of the rate of failure, indeed they tend to give you a false impression that problems are far more common than they are. The HPFP failure rate appears to be well under 1% of vehicles. But that makes for about 5,000 complainers, out of 500,000 vehicles, enough to ***** an awful lot.

However, there is no doubt that VW/Audis in general, and TDIs in particular, have higher than average maintenance costs. Plan accordingly. If you want a car that will never go wrong, and never cost you a few grand, buy a Toyota.

TIG said:

That's the other "easy" option, but it's a lot more work than the Haldex and a lot more invasive too (engine swap, etc). Also, B5s are getting old and Quebec/eastern Ontario isn't kind to cars, nearly all the B5s I see have major corrosion issues in the doors and panels. I could buy a clean US one, but that's some time and effort to find.

Since it will be my wife's car, I wanted to stick with something newer that I could quickly convert. The Golf is a weekend job. Passat is a bit more work, but not much.

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Well given the NMS was never designed to accommodate an AWD arrangement, I'd think it would present a lot of difficulty. Not to mention the fact that the Haldex requires a controller, Torsen is purely mechanical. So for Haldex you need the engine, transmission (if automatic), ABS, etc. to all play nice on the CAN bus. Torsen doesn't care. It isn't connected to anything. Although the ABS controller usually needs to be coded for it, I assume so it employs a slightly different strategy for skid control.

As much as I like diesels, if I really NEEDED AWD like it sounds like you do, I'd probably just find a pre-chain Audi A4 Avant quattro and run with that.

I am surprised your FWD Volkswagen with snow tires is giving you much trouble, though. Aside from the low ground clearance (which could easily be changed) my Golf gets to our farm property just fine through 6+ inches of unplowed snow over rough gravel roads and some pretty major inclines. I have always attributed this to Murphy's Law, though. As I always put my front tow eye in BEFORE I leave the house, just in case I need it. I never have.

We don't get much snow here, though. So it isn't like I have to put up with much of that kind of driving. Maybe two to five days a year. And if it got worse than that, my dad's 4WD Ranger with the Uber Off Road Commando package (16" wheels wrapped in BFG All Terrain tires, heavy duty suspension, locking rear diff) goes like a mountain yak through anything. That Ranger drug my useless-in-the-snow F350 dually the whole two miles from the farm to the highway a couple winters ago, LOL.

We get on average 90 inches of snowfall a year and have ice on the ground from December to April, and the max inclination of the road is 21 degrees (that's not a grade percentage, that's degrees) with several switchbacks so you can't get a run at it. When it's plowed and sanded, it's not a problem, but any kind of snowfall makes it difficult, especially wet stuff.

Meh . . . lived in a valley that got 300+ inches a year for many, many years . . . Never had AWD/4WD, never got stuck, hardly ever stayed in. AWD is nice, but good driving technique works too . . . never felt a need for the added cost and complexity myself, and we have had 4 wheel brakes forever, so in some ways, it's just a way to get into trouble faster. (Having said that, we also rarely got ice . . . but the comment about brakes still applies, especially there . . . I'm far more concerned in stopping that anything else in bad weather . . . ).

I agree that a fwd can me made to go just about anywhere in the snow with the right tire and a good driver, but it won't make it to our place if it's snowing. Even a 4wd pickup has no chance unless it has real tires (the ranger used as an example would have great difficulty on BFG ATs). If I could get away with a fwd, it would make the decision a lot simpler, but I can't, especially for my wife's car.

I don't really want to get into the Haldex conversion details. That's another matter that I am still researching, but before I put too much time and effort into that, I wanted to see how solid the basic car is. So far I am seeing some pretty happy owners.

I always drove RWD with Posi in snow, and frankly still prefer it . . . perhaps it's years of practice, but frankly, I think that it's because I don't like how FWD comes loose in the front under application of power, thus losing steering . . .

If you live "offroad" then that's a different story . . . I was in a small town where it just, basically, never quit snowing . . .

pparks1 said:

Um, I seem to recall quite a number of forum members who have reported HPFP failures on their Passats. Have I really lost my mind?

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Maybe in Jettas, but I've only seen one post on this site since I joined on an HPFP on a Passat that failed.

Regards

Here in central Jersey, AWD would only come in handy 2 or 3 times a year when it snows heavy. I gave up my Explorer when RUG approached $5 a gallon.

We get by with 2 FWD sedans. Visiting my parents more often in their old age at our family's retreat in the Poconos has caused me to debate the pros and cons of getting an AWD vehicle such as a Q7 3.0 TDI (now being discounted of course).

A very unique product is the TDI. CPO Q7 TDIs are unicorns with a third row.

Out of the frying pan (CR 2.0) and into the fire (Q7 3.0)...may as well go out in style.

406 foot pounds of torque.

We live up in 97049 (google) on the base of mt hood, everyone up here has subi outback's or a larger suv to drive and many are amazed that my wife and I drive 2wd cars all winter! The only time I had to pull the wife home was when it was a holiday and no plowing took place, I had to meet her at the end of the pavement and pull her home with the Tractor over 36" of nasty wet snow. I even pulled her over a few fallen trees, nox sensor survived
Passat goes strong until high centered, then its a show stopper- that's normally around 2' of powder or 1' of wet snow. Both our fog lights are loose from smacking drifts at speed.

That pretty much looks like what I used to deal with (and actually miss . . . ). 49931, for what it's worth . . .

- Tim

tdiatlast said:

pparks: For accuracy sake, please edit your remarks to delete the High Pressure Fuel pumps as a problem area, as they are NOT an issue with the NMS Passats. I think the rest of your post is accurate, though.

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I wouldn't say it's not an issue. My car ate one at 50k miles.

Definitely not as high a failure rate as other models, but it does happen.

TIG said:

The Passat appeals to us due to the huge cabin, 6 speed manual, TDI mileage and diesel longevity.

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3/4 ain't bad.

In 75k miles I have lost faith in the longevity of the vehicle. The failure modes of the common issues like the turbo or fuel pump generally result in metal contamination from catastrophic failure, which means expensive repairs of lots of expensive downstream components. A single out of pocket repair for one of those issues blows away any measure of economy.

knownikko said:

I wouldn't say it's not an issue. My car ate one at 50k miles.

Definitely not as high a failure rate as other models, but it does happen.

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Of course. It just isn't a deal-stopper, IMHO, as the failure rate is exceptionally small.

"...In 75k miles I have lost faith in the longevity of the vehicle. ..."

This is my take, as well. I'm equally concerned about the structural integrity, as the amount of chassis flex, and the overall light-weight structure (which allows for drumming/booming road vibration) just doesn't give me comfort for long-term survival.

My JSW seems infinitely better, at 106k miles, solid as a rock.

Yup. When a hpfp failure can cost in the $5k region(at the dealership anyhow), you'll hear from a large number of those folks on forums like this. Fortunately, there are solutions that address the poor pump.

turbobrick240 said:

Yup. When a hpfp failure can cost in the $5k region(at the dealership anyhow), you'll hear from a large number of those folks on forums like this. Fortunately, there are solutions that address the poor pump.

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What are the pump solutions?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Seeing as the HPFP is different than Golfs and Jettas pumps, I'd like to hear of this "fix" as well. Seeing as there has only been one case on this site (that I can recall) and never heard of one from any of my mech friends that actually work on them, I highly doubt there is an issue at all.

Most are issues stem from people putting gas in the tank.