MFA/FIS/Sport Cluster POSSIBLE on 99.5!!!

jetta 97

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2 X Jatta MK5 2006
Hi everyone, I just found this thread.

I did this swap a few years ago with a 2001 IMMO2 MFA cluster. The ECM is always responsible for computing preglow time, and the stock -EB module does send the correct messages to the warning lights. All that was necessary was to put a couple of small resistors - I think I used 330 Ohm - between the GP and emission MIL pins and terminal 15, so the controller would not set "lamp inoperative" codes. The same should go for the ABS lights, but I do not have the original module, so one from MY1999 may need the same resistor treatment to prevent the lamp out codes from being set. The only thing that doesn't work out of the box is the SRS. It is not attached to the powertrain data bus like the other two/three modules (ECM, ABS, and TCM (optional)). To make the SRS lamp work, you will most likely have to adapt the cluster hardware to make it work. One lazy/temporary option is to use the brake pad warning lamp, since it works the same way.

That should save you some time otherwise spent modifying more hardware than necessary.

For the IMMO, I just did the same thing jetta, 97 did - use a working transponder key with a reading coil. Otherwise, the IMMO screams at you each time you start the car. To maintain the single-key setup, I just mounted the transponder and coil to the back of the instrument panel. You have to obviously do the key matching, using the panel's SKC.
On Immo 3 cluster you can't adopt key normal way, because cluster is not talking to ECU , You have to do manually editing in eeprom.
You did trick with resistor but to do it right way all lights , check engine , glow plug and SRS has to be rewire on circuit board to work properly on 99.5 cars.
Here is how to rewire cluster:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3185904&postcount=70

You have to do this way because 99.5 controllers was talking direct to cluster and 2000+ cars via CAN BUS.
 

jcrews

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Actually, all lights except SRS work properly. The "trick resistor" was only needed to supress fault codes for the lamps, since the ECM will monitor them regardless of the instrument panel link state. It does not, however, mean that the ECM won't send CAN messages to make them work. The only thing the cluster overrides is the 2 second lamp test. After that, a fault code stored in the ECM or ABS will turn on the appropriate light(s), ASR activation will trigger the appropriate lamp, and preglow will trigger the lamp properly, all without rewiring. This has all been extensively tested on IMMO2, but I have no reason to swap in my IMMO3 set to verify that it will also work.

I haven't had the motivation to adapt that one yet. The powertrain systems correctly communicate over the bus as described before. I should know, since I've been using this type of cluster for years, not days. It's not that the car is "non-CAN," but rather the original panel is. At least with the -EB ECM from 11/98, the software is in place to communicate with a newer panel.

You're right about the IMMO3, which is why I used an IMMO2 system. Since the IMMO3 will still unlock if keys are matched by hand, it's just a little more of a pain.
 
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turbocharged798

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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Right, that's why I said that when I plugged in my immo2 MFA cluster, it worked a heck of a lot better than my immo3.

But the issue with immo2 is that I cannot rescale the tach from gasser to diesel for some reason....
 

jcrews

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Can you elaborate on what exactly happened with the IMMO3? Now I'm curious, but not enough to be outside for 10 minutes :)

If you have access to the configuration area (the so called EEPROM), you should have no trouble changing the needle map to use TDi cards. Otherwise, what's wrong with a tachometer that displays the correct count on a wider scale?
 

turbocharged798

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I don't remember what exactly was't working as it was quite a while ago, but I remember it being several things, including the door chime, several idiot lights, and I think the tach was reading wrong or something...

Immo 2 worked right off aside from the immo light blinking in my face and the SRS light.

I used vag-tacho to put in a immo2 TDI mfa cluster dump. Tach still thinks it's a gasser and reads low. I can do the eeprom rescale all day long with immo3 clusters, but immo2 clusters won't rescale for some reason....

I really want the proper 5500 RPM redline and not the gasser redline.
 

jcrews

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Starting with IMMO3, the cluster gateway was additionally attached to the comfort data bus, whereas it was only attached to the powertrain bus in IMMO2. There is a separate set of pins to attach the comfort bus to the gateway. The basic p/t lights should work OK, but comfort functions will be goofy. Maybe I should try it out some day, but IMMO2 is the most appropriate option.

Did you read back the configuration and make sure it actually got written to nonvolatile memory?
 
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turbocharged798

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Well, VCDS reported the part numbers for the dump I put into it. (1J5-920-925C).Immo data and mileage changed over. I can hook up VCDS, see right on the screen that it has a diesel eeprom dump, and start the engine and the tach reads as a gasser.

Tried leaving the cluster unplugged for a day and still no dice.

Had anyone actually successfully rescaled a immo2 cluster? Because all the rescale jobs I see are immo3 clusters.
 

jcrews

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That makes me wonder if the scale is hardcoded in the application code, and not configurable.

Sadly, there is no accessible documentation for the system-on-chip device. As far as I know, the application is contained in a mask ROM (cheaper to mass produce).

I am looking at the dump right now.
 
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turbocharged798

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That makes me wonder if the scale is hardcoded in the application code, and not configurable.

Sadly, there is no accessible documentation for the system-on-chip device. As far as I know, the application is contained in a mask ROM (cheaper to mass produce).

I am looking at the dump right now.
Yes, that's what I am thinking as well.

What was weird was that out of desperation, I copied the dump from a non MFA TDI cluster and put it in the MFA gas cluster, fully expecting it not to work properly. It worked the same and just transfered over the immo data/mileage.
 

turbocharged798

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I think I found the problem. Vag-tacho is not reading/writing the entire eeprom dump. Only does the first 512MB and stops. Now to figure out why it is doing that is going to be the trick....

I think I hijacked this thread enough....
 

s1iver

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Canada
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2000 GTI GLX VR6
I think I found the problem. Vag-tacho is not reading/writing the entire eeprom dump. Only does the first 512MB and stops. Now to figure out why it is doing that is going to be the trick....

I think I hijacked this thread enough....
probably kb ;)
 

Steve99

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The dump should be 512 or 2048 bytes from what I have seen. I have seen 512 bytes in an IMMO II cluster, all IMMO 3 clusters appear to be 2048 bytes.
 

jetta 97

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The dump should be 512 or 2048 bytes from what I have seen. I have seen 512 bytes in an IMMO II cluster, all IMMO 3 clusters appear to be 2048 bytes.
Only dump with 512mb I ever see is none immo cluster(98- 99.5 cars). All other are 2kb.
The problem is in software , is not reading complete dump.
 

turbocharged798

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^^What he said. I think I might just give up and sell it on vortex as a gasser cluster. I have too many projects going an just getting a MFA in the 04 is enough of a project for me.

I also scored and got another gasser immo 3 MFA cluster for insanely cheap. I my try to make that work if I get time.

I tried to do a immo delete on it by coping the the immo data from my 99.5 cluster and putting it into the immo2 cluster. That didn't work too well. LOL

I am not sure if it's even possible to "brick" these clusters. I had it so bad it would not even function at all and brought it back to life by dumping the original eeprom into it.
 
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waspie

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05.5 pkg2!
i'm getting ready to fit a 99 gas passat mfa cluster to my TDI (99.5) but i think the ultimate goal would be the IMMO3 with DTE (distance till empty or whatever its called in the VW world). There are several self service junkyards around so what I'm asking is: what are some part numbers and car year/models i would be looking for?
 

turbocharged798

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Some 02-03 VR6 Jettas came with black faced immo3 MFA clusters and 04-05 GLIs came with sliver faced sport clusters.

I am not 100% sure what exact US MK4 cars came with MFA clusters and what did not.
 

jetta 97

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i'm getting ready to fit a 99 gas passat mfa cluster to my TDI (99.5) but i think the ultimate goal would be the IMMO3 with DTE (distance till empty or whatever its called in the VW world). There are several self service junkyards around so what I'm asking is: what are some part numbers and car year/models i would be looking for?
2002-2003= 1J0 920 926 D or F ( black face)
2004-2005= 1J5 920 926 H ( silver face)
 

waspie

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thanks guys, doubt i'll see anything that new hitting the yards but the part numbers will help for ebay and such.
 
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waspie

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is 54 shipped for a 1j0 920 926 f a good price? I *think* it is as most seem to go for 120+. if i understand everything right its a black faced 160 mph half height IMMO3. i;ve snagged a couple spare coils from jy cars to stash behind the cluster and uncut keys seem to only be about 10$ on ebay. the stalk is wired up and i think the only thing that needs done is rewiring the leds on the cluster. this is about my only hangup as i don't fully understand the schematic. also, do i need to run a fresh set of CAN wires from the ECU to the IMMO3 cluster and remove the MPG (t32b/32)?
 

turbocharged798

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Ok, I plugged in a immo 2 and immo3 cluster in my 99.5. immo2 did better as immo3 did not recognize my doors being open and the ASR light was not working right at all in addition to the other issues.

For both clusters: air bag light does not work right, check engine light does not work, glow plug light comes on and off(not sure if that is working correctly or no), and immo is very unhappy and beeps wildly at me when I turn on the key.


Cluster is lighting the SRS light because it cannot communicate with the air bag controller. It also threw a code for the ABS controller, no communication but the light appeared to be working fine(?).

ECU was throwing codes too for open glow plug and check engine lights.

I did not drive the car to see if the MPG display worked at all.I had enough problems just turning the key on.

I do have the brown set of can wires at the green connector, but it's like can-bus is not working or something as it appears that the cluster cannot communicate with the other controllers.
 

waspie

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sheesh, you kinda take my hope away with all those lights. the cel/srs/gpl seem to be known problems. the others i'm not so sure about. i saw a thread somewhere where someone mentioned swapping the older airbag controller for a new one. wonder what years are compatible. currently i have a passat cluster (99, with mfa) working the same way compu_85 did. still think im gonna try to get the immo3 cluster to work once i get a better understanding of the schematic posted previously.
 
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turbocharged798

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I think the issues lie within the can-bus system. Like I said, I have the can wires running to the cluster, but it cannot communicate with the air bag controller. So either the can wires are not hooked up to it, the controller in not capable of talking over can-bus, or the can wires are in the wrong spot in the connector.

I am sure I could eventually get around these issues but it just takes time and hard work.
 

jetta 97

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I think the issues lie within the can-bus system. Like I said, I have the can wires running to the cluster, but it cannot communicate with the air bag controller. So either the can wires are not hooked up to it, the controller in not capable of talking over can-bus, or the can wires are in the wrong spot in the connector.

I am sure I could eventually get around these issues but it just takes time and hard work.
Like I said before , 99.5 cluster talks direct with controllers( ECU, Air bag ) and glow plug light goes direct form ECU.
On 2000+ cars cluster talks via CAN Bus.
The CAN wires on 99.5 are ONLY for MPG.
You have to rewire cluster to be able to work properly ,
here is schematic for immo3 cluster:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3185904&postcount=70

This is the ONLY way to make CAN cluster work on 99.5.

Also you need recode address 19 Can gateway to 00002, then your door should be recognized.
 

jetta 97

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sheesh, you kinda take my hope away with all those lights. the cel/srs/gpl seem to be known problems. the others i'm not so sure about. i saw a thread somewhere where someone mentioned swapping the older airbag controller for a new one. wonder what years are compatible. currently i have a passat cluster (99, with mfa) working the same way compu_85 did. still think im gonna try to get the immo3 cluster to work once i get a better understanding of the schematic posted previously.
Here is what you need to do:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=305661
 

waspie

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i know thats what i need to do, i just don't understand what i'm doing. is the bottom set of diagrams whats IN the IMMO3 cluster and the top set of diagrams what needs to be done? do i leave the current 3 lights in the immo3 cluster alone and wire in a second set of lights according to the top 3 diagrams?
 

turbocharged798

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Like I said before , 99.5 cluster talks direct with controllers( ECU, Air bag ) and glow plug light goes direct form ECU.
On 2000+ cars cluster talks via CAN Bus.
The CAN wires on 99.5 are ONLY for MPG.
You have to rewire cluster to be able to work properly ,
here is schematic for immo3 cluster:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3185904&postcount=70

This is the ONLY way to make CAN cluster work on 99.5.

Also you need recode address 19 Can gateway to 00002, then your door should be recognized.
Where do your actually rewire the lights, in the cluster it's self?

And I am asking the same question as the above poster, why is there two different diagrams for the same light?
 
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