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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old September 10th, 2018, 19:50   #1
KZbAsser
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Exclamation How to Time an ALH injection pump. Not adjust.

Hello.

I’m new to the forum. I got a 02 Golf GLS that had just under 138000 on it and is now about to hit 310000. I’ve owed this car for about 12yrs with only oil, filters and chassis maintenance for the most part. I am currently in the process of doing the timing belt. The first one was done around 116000(roughly 194000 ago). This is my first TB on a diesel.

I’m looking for info on how to make sure the IP is in time with the crank and cam. I lined up with the timing marks on crank and flywheel and IP lock pin would not go. I cracked the tensioner loose and took cam gear off and turned pump CW til pin slid in. But now it’s time to put it back together and I’m quadruple questioning if the pump is in time. I read in the how to’s that pump can be about 30 degrees off if pin locks in to the right of hole. With a mirror it doesn’t look like a hole that pin is seating in.

Questions:
Can I rotate pump either direction to align?
If not, what is the correct rotation? And do I turn it one revolution or ?

I’ve tried different searches worded many ways and all I keep coming up with is how to adjust pump timing after job is complete. I do have VCDS.

For example, You pull car in to the garage and tear into it without lining up anything. You crack tensioner loose and remove belt. Oops. Crank and cam would be easy. How would you go about timing the injection pump?

Any info will be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.

Sam E.
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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:14   #2
WildChild80
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https://www.kermatdi.com/i-699-11mm-...nsmission.html

In the pic you can see the hole, you lock everything at zero and you MUST loosen the cam sprocket and the 3 13mm bolts prior to tensioning the belt.

The only way that the pin will go in is that hole, but make sure you're not beside the hole

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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:19   #3
KLXD
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I have no issue with turning the pump CCW but some folks do. I've had it completely apart and see nothing that can be harmed.

But if you feel better turning it the normal direction, do so. Normal direction is CW when facing it. If you miss the hole turn it once more. It turns once per two crank rotations same as the cam.

If it makes you feel better, take off the pump sprocket so you can see the slot in the hub line up with the hole on the pump. I'm sure you've read not to loosen the nut on the pump shaft.

The fact that the pump pin will not go in with the crank at TDC is not surprising on the ALH. Once the belt is installed and the timing set by loosening the three pump sprocket bolts the initial static relationship between the three is lost.

Actually in your scenario of taking off the belt early, the pump is a piece of cake. Trying to get the crank to TDC on #1 with the cam not turning can be a problem depending on where the cam was when you removed the belt. One would want to turn the crank very carefully in case of valve contact.
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Last edited by KLXD; September 10th, 2018 at 20:24.
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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:23   #4
WildChild80
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I would just pull the cam in that situation, it's cheap insurance and yes I re-use stretch bolts...shame on me. I don't re-use the studs on the timing set though

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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:34   #5
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There are much better pictures in the 120-page PDF by DBW et al.:
http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
Pages 91, 92 and 93 specifically.
ALSO, beware the "phantom hole" that is nearby the actual pin lock.
It has caught a few sailors in it's time...
KZb, even if you're an experienced mechanic, it's worth your time to go line-by-line if it's your 1st time on an ALH.
They are a bit fussy when it comes to TBs.
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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:44   #6
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Yeah there's one right way and about 20 wrong ways.....
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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:53   #7
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Complete truths...it'll be a very painful experience if you don't follow it, and the potential for serious engine damage is very high...and you might loose tools when you throw them out of frustration.

It makes the timing belt of gas cars seem much easier.

Investing in good tools makes it even more pleasurable.

Diesel geek is a great source for the special tools

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Old September 10th, 2018, 20:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Yeah there's one right way and about 20 wrong ways.....
I've probably done 10 of those 20...very frustrating to have to detension the timing belt or knock the cam sprocket off 2 or 3 times...even after a bunch of them I still sit in front of the car and walk through the steps before I start and look up stuff that I can't remember...might even watch a video as a refresher...you can never be too prepared

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Old September 10th, 2018, 21:54   #9
KZbAsser
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Sweet. Thanks guys for the info. I’ll start putting this thing back together tomorrow after work. I’ll be sure to double check the timing marks at the flywheel and cam lobes up on #1. I didn’t want to take a chance at messing up the pump in some way.

I didn’t think about the valve and pistons interference in my example. Was just hoping to get my point across first try. I’ve noticed the older I get the less patients I have for working on cars. Especially when you need it and it’s not moving. Lol.

I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:52   #10
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Quick reference on setting static timing and tensioning the belt:

Set crank to TDC and lock it (jam screwdriver in bellhousing or use lock tool if you have the damper off.)

Check that the lobes are up AND LOCK THE CAM with the cam lockplate. No, you CANNOT do this visually.

ATTEMPT to pin the IP. If it will not go break free the cam sprocket and three IP bolts (or remove the latter), remove belt if necessary, align the IP and pin it. You can remove the IP sprocket if the belt is off and rotate the center hub (clockwise preferred) to insert the pin if you have a pin that is short enough to allow clearance for the sprocket to be reinstalled with it in the hole. DO NOT change the cam/crank position to achieve IP lock. The correct hole is EXACTLY aligned with the rectangular boss on top of the IP; if the pin is not aligned with that boss YOU ARE IN THE SUCKER HOLE AND THE ENGINE WILL NOT START.

To tension/set you MUST do it the following way. It is the ONLY correct way.

1. Belt is ON, cam sprocket is ON the nose of the cam but NOT tightened, cam lock plate IN, crank position locked, tensioner on the stud but NOT tensioned, IP sprocket on but three bolts LOOSE, IP PINNED. Hint: Getting the cam sprocket on the nose with the belt on it is not easy. If you temporarily remove the TOP roller it is a LOT easier. Do so, put the sprocket on, then replace the top roller. You're welcome.

(If you DID NOT start with the above then you need to REMOVE the cam in order to safely rotate the crank or be EXTRAORDINARILY careful with hand-barring it (remove the glow plugs so there is no compression resistance) because it is not at all hard to damage the valves if you're not in time.)

2. With the CAM SPROCKET loose and the three IP bolts loose (but in place) -- that is, THE ONLY LOCKED POSITION ON THE BELT IS THE CRANK PULLEY, set the tensioner and torque the nut. The tensioner center section is rotated CLOCKWISE to tension, NEVER CCW, and you must check to make sure the tang on the back is in the slot on the cover and into the receiving slot on the block and stays there when tensioning; if it is not in the slot you WILL damage the tensioner and it WILL fail. If you can't get a torque wrench in there (I usually can but it's a VERY tight fit) "decently tight with an open-end wrench and your hand" is the best you can do.

3. Tighten the cam sprocket to spec COUNTER-HOLDING THE SPROCKET. You must NOT apply torque to the cam lock plate (you WILL break the tail of the cam if you do.) You can remove the cam lock plate once this is complete since it CANNOT move without the crank doing so at this point.

4. Tighten the three IP bolts to spec.

5. Now remove the cam lock if you didn't before, the IP pin and the crank lock. CAREFULLY rotate the engine by the crank bolt, clockwise, TWO FULL ROTATIONS. You should feel nothing more than normal compression stroke resistance. If you feel ANY mechanical resistance STOP; something is seriously wrong. NOTE: DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE VIA THE CAM SPROCKET OR IP BOLT AND DO NOT ROTATE IT BACKWARDS (CCW) AS EITHER WILL PLACE STRESS ON THE TENSIONER IT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR.

6. Return the crank to TDC, rotating CLOCKWISE ONLY, so the mark EXACTLY aligns. The cam lock plate and IP pin MUST GO BACK IN. It's ok if the IP pin is tight but it has to go. Check the tensioner to make sure the tang is centered in the slot. If the locks do not go back in or the tensioner is not still correctly set you screwed up, go back to the start and do it over.

IF the pin and cam lock DO go back in you now have (1) the tensioner set correctly, (2) the crank, cam and IP are all in the correct static timing relationship and (3) there is NO sideloading on the belt nubs or on any of the sprockets in the timing system. The engine should start and, if you're REALLY accurate about this, the timing will be almost-exactly in the middle of the graph when checked with VCDS.

This is the correct way to do it; if you have more than one component locked when setting tension you're doing it wrong and begging for an early and potentially-catastrophic failure.

BTW at this point in time there shouldn't BE any one-time-use IP sprocket bolts still out there since they all should have been replaced long ago with the new ones during a timing belt change, which are NOT one-time-use.

Last edited by Genesis; September 11th, 2018 at 09:05.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 12:30   #11
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Thar looks pretty thorough but you know someone's going to add something to it so it may as well be me.

I'd add:

2a - Verify crank position in case your locking mechanism wasn't quite secure and return the crank to TDC if it moved.
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Current: ’02 Jetta, Auto; ’98 Jetta, 5 Spd; ’98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; ’84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): ’85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: ’85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; ’81 Rabbit, 1.6; ’80 Dasher, 1.5; ’79 Rabbit, 1.5
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Old September 11th, 2018, 13:04   #12
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My .02 - if you have to move anything more than just a little bit - step back and reevaluate! If the car was running and driving, you shouldn't have to move the IP or cam much if the crank is really at TDC.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 20:14   #13
KZbAsser
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Hey guys
Been working a lot of hours and haven’t had time til yesterday.
I got everything all lined up like it should be and locked in, or so I thought. Stuck screwdriver in flywheel, but not as securely as I thought. After a several attempts at getting IP pulley centered in slots, I got the belt on. But the crank moved and not sure which way and how much. With mirror, I can not see mark in either direction of point. So I would say quite a bit.

I don’t really want to pull the cam as WildChild suggested, but it looks like that’s what it’s going to come down to. Can I put it back together without replacing anything? It looks to be studs for the cam caps. Eventually I’d like to pull engine out and fleshing the whole thing up and do a 4x4 conversion of some flavor. But for now I need to get it running and/or find something else to drive. But I’m really trying to avoid a car payment of any amount.

Thanks again.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 22:33   #14
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Just gently turn it back and forth till you find the mark. Shouldn't be too far off.

The cam isn't turning since you haven't torqued the bolt, right?

If you have torqued it you need to break the sprocket loose from the cam again anyway so do it before moving the crank.

You did have the cam sprocket loose, didn't you? Take it completely off if you're having trouble installing the belt.

Also, you can snug one of the pump sprocket bolts to keep it centered while you install the belt. Just remember to loosen it again before adjusting the tension.
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Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: ’02 Jetta, Auto; ’98 Jetta, 5 Spd; ’98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; ’84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): ’85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: ’85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; ’81 Rabbit, 1.6; ’80 Dasher, 1.5; ’79 Rabbit, 1.5

Last edited by KLXD; September 17th, 2018 at 22:36.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 05:17   #15
Genesis
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If you're having trouble installing the belt remove the TOP small roller. The belt will go on MUCH easier. Then replace it before continuing.
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