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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old November 25th, 2011, 11:31   #91
roninwarior007
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MemberName: roninwarior007
Model Year: 2010
Model: golf
Tranny: 6m
Miles: 71664
Oil Ash Volume: 69
Oil Type: Mobile 1 ESP 5W-30
Avrg. MPG:41.3

Last edited by roninwarior007; November 25th, 2011 at 11:57.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 20:53   #92
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If the max capacity of our DPF is 380 ml, looks like ronin and myself have used up about 18-20% of the DPF. Still a long way to go before it needs replaced. It appears the build-up rate is still about 10 ml per 10K miles. I wonder if fuel efficiency drops as the DPF begins to fill up with soot?
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Old November 28th, 2011, 22:09   #93
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Originally Posted by MacBuckeye View Post
If the max capacity of our DPF is 380 ml, looks like ronin and myself have used up about 18-20% of the DPF. Still a long way to go before it needs replaced. It appears the build-up rate is still about 10 ml per 10K miles. I wonder if fuel efficiency drops as the DPF begins to fill up with soot?
I thought ash capacity was still an unknown? Was a source identified?
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Old November 29th, 2011, 05:13   #94
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The terms "ash" and "soot" are used interchangeably sometimes. I think the 'soot load" refers to the material build-up before the DPF. 'Ash volume' is what remains after the soot is burned off. I'm not an expert on this by any means. Soot load fluctuates up and down. Oil ash volume only increases. Per VW and VAGCOM, the DPF needs replaced when the volume = 45 grams (380 ml).
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Old November 29th, 2011, 07:22   #95
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The 380 mL number comes up in VCDS when reading the ash volume parameter as a range of the value of the parameter. The question is what is the significance of the 380 mL in VCDS. Is it the capacity of the DPF or not? I have not seen any explanation as to what the 380 mL means. About all we can do is to continue to provide data as our miles accumulate on our cars. Once we start having to replace our DPFs, we might be able to make some estimates on DPF life based on rate of ash accumulation.

The 45 grams is the maximum soot load before regeneration is not possible. If one assumes that the density of soot is about 0.6 g/mL, 45 grams would take up about 75 mL (45/0.6) of space in the DPF. Also, the density of ash (I've seen values around 2.3 g/mL) is considerably more than soot and thus 45 grams of ash would take up a lot less space in the DPF than 45 grams of soot.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 13:54   #96
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Golfer-
(from one of my previous post)
I'm not sure if the info from VW (45 grams of soot load) is the same as oil ash volume. The soot burns off during regens. Not sure if all of the soot burns off or if a percentage remains. I've watched the soot load measurements increase and then drop back towards zero after a regen. If the measurements are correct, then all the soot is burned, thus a reading of 0.0 after the regen is complete. The lowest soot load measured during my scans was 1.5. Even after a regen it didn't go to 0.0. Soot load calculated does go to 0.0 after a regen. I'm wondering if the "45 grams" VW is referring to is not oil ash volume, but the soot load. If the soot load (either measured or calculated) reaches 45 gr, then an emergency regen is no longer safe. But, as long as the car is able to regen on a regular basis, the soot load would never get this high. The highest my soot load (measured) ever reached was 16.2 gr.
I didn't do a conversion so I don't know if 45 gr = 380 ml. I could have mis-spoke on that. 380 ml comes from VAGCOM right? I feel that SOOT LOAD is more critical (dangerous, concerning, etc.) than OIL ASH volume. There's really nothing we can do about oil ash volume as it is going to increase no matter what. Driving style certainly impacts soot load. If all a person does is make really short trips, lots of city driving, than the car really has to work extra hard to burn off the soot. And if the car can't burn off the soot, that's when soot load reaches the 45 gr and.... capoot! There goes the DPF.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 14:56   #97
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See if this makes sense.

Ash is not soot. Soot burns, ash does not.

Engine oil and diesel fuel contain ash which does not combust. Low ash engine oil is about 0.6% ash and IIRC diesel fuel spec for ash is about 0.01% (10 ppm). So, the ash inherent in engine oil and the diesel fuel that enter the combustion chamber will accumulate in the DPF along with soot due to incomplete combustion of the engine oil and diesel fuel.

Quote:
Soot - agglomerations of particles of carbon impregnated with "tar," formed in the incomplete combustion of carbonaceous material. [ASTM D1356 REV A-73]

Ash is the name given to all non-aqueous residue that remains after a sample is burned, and consist mostly of metal oxides.
Soot load is not an issue until it reaches 45 grams. This is not volume related. The various types of regeneration should keep the soot to near the single digit gram level or even zero under normal circumstances. Soot levels can reach 45 grams even tough the DPF is not filled with ash because for some reason soot is accumulating faster than it can be burned via regeneration. Even if all the soot is burned after every active / distance regeneration, ash continues to accumulate as we drive our cars and burn engine oil and diesel fuel. Eventually, there will be too much ash in the DPF and it needs to be cleaned of ash or replaced if cleaning is not possible.

Last edited by Plus 3 Golfer; November 29th, 2011 at 15:08.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 05:59   #98
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Ya, what you said!
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Old November 30th, 2011, 09:33   #99
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I just did quick internet search and it looks as if there are many companies that can clean ash from truck DPFs. Is the DPF on our cars so different that it couldn't be cleaned rather than replaced?
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Old November 30th, 2011, 09:40   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbright View Post
I just did quick internet search and it looks as if there are many companies that can clean ash from truck DPFs. Is the DPF on our cars so different that it couldn't be cleaned rather than replaced?
Truck DPFs are designed to be emptied. They have a removable "cap" that allows the ash to be removed. Our DPFs are sealed. My hope is that someone will figure out a way to cut a hole, empty the ash, and then install a cap (or weld it back together) so that cleaning is possible. So far there are not enough VW DPFs with enough miles on them for there to be much of a demand for this service, but that will change in a few years. We shall see what happens. Even if someone comes up with a way to clean out our DPFs, I suspect that there will still be a hefty labor charge, because these things are not very easy to remove (things are pretty tight in there).

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Old November 30th, 2011, 10:02   #101
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Does anyone know what kind of DPFs European diesel cars use and how they deal with ash loads and DPF maintenance? I did another quick search and found this:

http://www.centralgaragesnaith.co.uk/?page_id=43
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 08:56   #102
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Model Year: 2012
Model: Passat
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 2.6k
Oil Ash Volume: 0ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avg. MPG:40

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Old December 3rd, 2011, 22:33   #103
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darrelld-
2012 Passat TDI..... I'm jealous.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 15:04   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbright View Post
Does anyone know what kind of DPFs European diesel cars use and how they deal with ash loads and DPF maintenance? I did another quick search and found this:

http://www.centralgaragesnaith.co.uk/?page_id=43

are their DPFs different from ours/ doubtfull....the solution to this WILL come from Europe for sure.....they have so many millions of new diesels on the road and hopefully these liquids and additives in the web site quoted above will work ! there will have to be much more valaidation from European and eventually NA higher mileage drivers that these products do the job before we all jump on though...seems promising but do they WORK ?
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Old December 5th, 2011, 17:56   #105
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Another data point for the thread. I'll post more as I get through each maintenance from now on.

MemberName: sickmtbnutcase
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 50414
Oil Ash Volume: 39ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 44'ish
Comments: Looks like my ash buildup has been a bit less than others have so far. Most driving is country highways by my wife getting to work and back.
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