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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old July 7th, 2006, 10:22   #166
Frank M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuggins
I was questioning because of the other posts stating that the dealers had to special order the G50, and that the Syn G52 was $30 something a liter, and may not be the recommented oil for my car.
If it was me and I had the cash to change my 5th gear but not pay for the upgraded lube, I would ask myself whether I could really afford to do this mod.

The factory lube works the best, period.
Others including myself have testified to this.

Some lubes will ruin your syncros, then it will cost like $750 + $30 a liter to fix it. Do the math..
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Old July 7th, 2006, 10:53   #167
bhuggins
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Thanks for NOTHING Frank, I simpling looking for confirmation since this post was all over the place, and your advice definitely straightened it out for me.

Let me ask the question another way,

The question is, is the G52 a direct replacement for the G50 or not? and will it hurt my 2003 5 speed?

You're right about one thing, I don't want to pay $35 a liter for something that going to hurt my tranny, when I could have spent $10. Maybe someone of your stature thinks that's a great deal, but I don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by bhuggins; July 7th, 2006 at 11:00.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 12:42   #168
SUNRG
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Yes - the synthetic G52 would be fine for your 03. it was recommended in a VW TSB as a fix/replacement for G50 when spider gear noise occurs.

I have Redline MTL in my 04 TDI now - it seems to be functioning fine but that's not data. I also plan to try Redline D4.

However, if I knew i would have to pay for any tranny issues resulting from my recommendation, I'd recommend synthetic G52.

Cheers!
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Old July 7th, 2006, 13:18   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuggins
The question is, is the G52 a direct replacement for the G50 or not? and will it hurt my 2003 5 speed?

You're right about one thing, I don't want to pay $35 a liter for something that going to hurt my tranny, when I could have spent $10.
What's the main goal for the fluid change and/or the transmission? (There are no wrong answers to this question.)

Some of the options include "it's gotta be 125% OEM warranty safe" or "screw warranty, I want the best fuel economy even if it means I might loose 100,000 miles from my transmission life" or anywhere in between.

Then we can select a fluid from the list that should get you what you want and/or need.

Andy
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Old July 7th, 2006, 13:26   #170
dave333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRG
I have Redline MTL in my 04 TDI now - it seems to be functioning fine but that's not data. I also plan to try Redline D4.
The D4 is a no-go in my trans... I have had it for a week and around 600 miles and it did not help my synchro issue at all. In fact, it made it worse. The transmission still grinds going from 2nd into 3rd and now it will do it going from 3rd into 4th.

The Redline D4 is coming out this weekend and the non-synthetic, cheap, stock gear oil is going back in. I'll run that until I get my next bit of trans work done and then go back to the VW full synthetic. That shifted the smoothest out of any of the fluids I've tried....
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Old July 7th, 2006, 15:52   #171
Frank M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuggins
Thanks for NOTHING Frank,

You're right about one thing, I don't want to pay $35 a liter for something that going to hurt my tranny, when I could have spent $10. Maybe someone of your stature thinks that's a great deal, but I don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess the reality of my post struck a nerve heh....

Well someone of my stature would drain the old lube out, save it and re-use it.
You will find it is not dirty and still has allot of life left in it.

Actually I would not even bother with that 5th gear mod. It is not cost effective and accomplishes nothing...
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Old July 8th, 2006, 01:01   #172
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Default Powershift Trans Fluid

Well; Since nobody chimed in with a comment regarding my idea of trying powershift fluid. I guess I'll just have to give it a try.

I'll add that I do believe the simple, and probably most economical, solution is to stick with OEM fluid. But that's so boring.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 09:21   #173
AndyH
 
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Default Updated Fluid Specs - Including Powershift

(Manual Tranny Fluids)

VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
128 159.0 18.3 = AMSOIL CTL SAE 50 Powershift GL-1
..............16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.6 = VW G50/G51
GL-4
185 90.0 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
..............15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90
GL-5
..............15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
GL-4/-5
..............15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
GL-4/-5
132 116.0 14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90
GL-5
177 84.5 14.7 = AMSOIL MTG 75-90
GL-4
133 76.2 11.0 = AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift GL-1

183 56.2 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
194 47.1 9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler)
None
208 41.6 9.08 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid None
198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL CTG SAE 10W Powershift GL-1
..... 31.2 6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 None
..... 35.1 6.38 = VW G-055-726-A2 None
..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) None


(Automatic Tranny Fluids - except for Redline D4 dual-use)


VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
.............8.3 = Honda CVT Fluid
.............7.6 = Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF
172 37.4 7.5 = AMSOIL Automatic transmission fluid ATF
198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
.............7.4 = Mobil 1 Synthetic Dexron/Mercon
197 32.5 7.2 = Redline Synthetic ATF Dexron II / Mercon
.............7.1 = Mobil 1 Synthetic Multi-vehicle ATF
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL Ford type F auto trans fluid
..........5.5-6 = Ford Mercon SP


Just for you, Long_Range - AMSOIL Powershift data.

Please let us know how the fluid works for you. You got my attention with your initial question, but I haven't used it so only have the tech info to add.

Andy

Last edited by AndyH; December 20th, 2006 at 18:14.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 09:37   #174
AndyH
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank M
If it was me and I had the cash to change my 5th gear but not pay for the upgraded lube, I would ask myself whether I could really afford to do this mod.

The factory lube works the best, period.
Others including myself have testified to this.

Some lubes will ruin your syncros, then it will cost like $750 + $30 a liter to fix it. Do the math..
Some lubes can ruin synchros. And some of those might be OEM fluids. Some lubes can protect synchros - and some of those are not OEM fluids. There's no 'absolute' best lube - they're all compromises. People have the right to choose to accept the OEM compromises, or determine their own needs.

There are only two things the factory lubes do 'best' - meet the minimum specs for the OEM, and provide the dealer a nice profit at retail. My opinion, of course.

Andy
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Old July 8th, 2006, 09:55   #175
Long_Range
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Thanks Andy.
This experiment may take a while. Won't know if the 30W is to thick for my 2004 PD until winter. Doesn't usually get down to single digit temperatures here in Central Illinois until after Christmas.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 11:36   #176
Frank M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyH
Some lubes can ruin synchros. And some of those might be OEM fluids. Some lubes can protect synchros - and some of those are not OEM fluids. There's no 'absolute' best lube - they're all compromises. People have the right to choose to accept the OEM compromises, or determine their own needs.
There are only two things the factory lubes do 'best' - meet the minimum specs for the OEM, and provide the dealer a nice profit at retail. My opinion, of course.
Andy
There are no guarantees that an after market lube is designed for a specific syncro. The are using some interesting composite materials on them nowadays. To use something as a guess is foolish.
I communicated with Mobil 1 about their lube. They stated in writing "do not use Mobil lube in your VW transaxle"
Now that is a responsible company. Of course some say they are "big oil and after profits" however I only see a product pushed here (underlined) as the answer to every application. Now that is irresponsible. That is looking for profits.

Last edited by Frank M; July 8th, 2006 at 11:45.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 12:23   #177
AndyH
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank M
There are no guarantees that an after market lube is designed for a specific syncro. The are using some interesting composite materials on them nowadays. To use something as a guess is foolish.
I communicated with Mobil 1 about their lube. They stated in writing "do not use Mobil lube in your VW transaxle"
Now that is a responsible company. Of course some say they are "big oil and after profits" however I only see a product pushed here (underlined) as the answer to every application. Now that is irresponsible. That is looking for profits.
Frank - with respect to your experience, your comment about Mobil's recommendation is useless unless you specifiy what you were trying to accomplish, or what the specifics of the lube were. The company makes a LOT of gear lubes - which did they not recommend? Is it possible that at the time, Mobil didn't have a GL-4 product, and therefore didn't have a corporate recommendation for the VW trans?

No-one but you is suggesting trying something as a guess - the point of this thread is to explore some of the POSSIBLE aftermarket replacements for our transmissions - nothing more or less than that. Could it be that you're the only one in this thread that isn't thinking in a vendor-neutral way? And for crying out loud - after expressing your opinion - which you're completely entitled to do - let the guy alone about gear swaps and lube choice!

As you could tell from the CONTEXT of the underlines - had you read the full message - a member asked for info on a lube he had and intended to try -- I simply underlined the updates. No-one is trying to sell anyone anything. When I do some more work on the VI numbers from the other vendors, I'll underline those and remove the underlines on today's powershift additions.

Andy
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Old July 8th, 2006, 15:35   #178
SuburbanTDI
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As to Mobil not claiming to have the elixir that cures all automotive ails I think Frank M is correct, it is the mark of a responsible vendor for Mobil to state they do not have a product suitable for this application.

To Frank M's statement that Mobil:
Quote:
stated in writing "do not use Mobil lube in your VW transaxle"
The poster responded:

Quote:
The company makes a LOT of gear lubes - which did they not recommend?
If you have evidence or even reason to believe that Frank M's claim is wrong, please post it, link to it or at least at a minimum show cause to sow doubt. We all would like more products to choose from for our VW's. Muddying the waters serves no useful purpose.

Last edited by BKmetz; July 9th, 2006 at 14:07.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 16:44   #179
dave333
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FWIW, I drained all of that evil Redline D4 today and got 1.9L of G052726A2 back in. My tranny is much, much, much happier. Still not as slick as the G052171A2 was, but it cost half as much too! I sure wish I would have been more careful in my drain and storage of that $75 gearbox fill...
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Old July 9th, 2006, 10:30   #180
AndyH
 
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I don't disagree at all that a company that doesn't have a product for a specific application, and tells a prospective customer that they don't, is doing the right thing.

I also don't disagre with what Frank said about Mobil's answer - and I'm not questioning or doubting that he asked them the question.

What information do we have? At an undetermined time, Frank asked Mobil a question about (presumably) a VW transaxle application. An unknown person, presumably someone from Mobil Tech services (probably a level-one customer service rep with anywhere from 1 to 90 days experience) said they didn't have a product for VW transaxles.

In addition, we know from Frank that some transmission companies use composite synchros. Is VW using new synchros or traditional materials? Since this is a thread about VW transmission fluids - and one of the issues is synchro compatibility - what is the value of the composite synchro comment?

Based on my experience as a tech services rep, and in dealing with various levels of reps in the computer, networking, and lube industry, the situation as it's currently outlined doesn't have a lot of value until we know the approximate timeframe of the request, the application Frank was looking for a lube solution for, and the Mobil gear lube product lineup at the time of the question. And if we had a 'why' for the non-recommendation, all the better.

jombl - you've made it clear in another thread that you are "not qualified to interpet or debate oil on it's technical merits" - why did you walk into a lube tech thread if not to simply to disrupt a discussion? I agree with your statement that "Muddying the waters serves no useful purpose." So I ask again - why are you in this thread?

Andy
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