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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old September 17th, 2018, 07:08   #31
WildChild80
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There are 3 HG thicknesses, they will all seal

A warped head, improperly decked block or studs/bolts not properly torqued is what causes them not to seal.

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Old September 17th, 2018, 07:39   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildChild80 View Post
FALSE!

you measure piston height from the deck of the block, if the HG we're too thin the valves hit the Pistons...where do you get these ideas?

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When you remove .01 in from the head and .01 from the block, you have to add .02 to the head gasket and so on.
The head losing thickness also affects the necessary thickness of the gasket, not just how much the cylinder protrudes from the head.

This is the most common issue I see with rebuild HG's failing.

If I only account for piston protrusion and not the material removed from the head, I will end up with bent valves as well.

The gasket is absolutely dependent upon both dimensions, not one.

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Old September 17th, 2018, 07:50   #33
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If I know the thickness of the original gasket and remove .015 from the head and I remove .015 from the block, I Know that my minimum gasket increase is going to be .03

This retains the original dimensions of the assembly, and this can all be done by knowing those 3 factors.

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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:00   #34
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I can tell you there is no interference with this engine. Sadly, I’ve been putting a ratchet on the front of it for YEARS & turning over by hand.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:10   #35
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Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
If I know the thickness of the original gasket and remove .015 from the head and I remove .015 from the block, I Know that my minimum gasket increase is going to be .03

This retains the original dimensions of the assembly, and this can all be done by knowing those 3 factors.

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Anytime that you dissemble a head, face mill it, or take material from the block, I would NOT just rely on what the machinist said they took off for your HG consideration. Even if I machined my own head, I would not just rely on this number

Thickness of the head gasket is based on piston protrusion from the deck, not how much material came off. There are assembly tolerances for everything, that can stack up. Hence why I would measure with a depth mic after assemble to get the TRUE number.

Sure if you took .01 and .01 you'd think that you'd just need a .02 gasket to take that up, but it really depends on the number you measure after assembly.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:21   #36
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Anytime that you dissemble a head, face mill it, or take material from the block, I would NOT just rely on what the machinist said they took off for your HG consideration. Even if I machined my own head, I would not just rely on this number

Thickness of the head gasket is based on piston protrusion from the deck, not how much material came off. There are assembly tolerances for everything, that can stack up. Hence why I would measure with a depth mic after assemble to get the TRUE number.

Sure if you took .01 and .01 you'd think that you'd just need a .02 gasket to take that up, but it really depends on the number you measure after assembly.
Agreed, however, like I said it depends on both not one.

My point is that simple math can give you the base minimum of the gasket increase. Measurements are necessary to get it perfect and I will not be arguing with you about that.

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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:30   #37
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Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
When you remove .01 in from the head and .01 from the block, you have to add .02 to the head gasket and so on.
The head losing thickness also affects the necessary thickness of the gasket, not just how much the cylinder protrudes from the head.

This is the most common issue I see with rebuild HG's failing.

If I only account for piston protrusion and not the material removed from the head, I will end up with bent valves as well.

The gasket is absolutely dependent upon both dimensions, not one.

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It's not the cylinder that protrudes it's the Pistons...

And please justify how the cylinder will hold the head up from sealing...

Google block decking and watch a video and you'll see that the entire surface is cut down and flat/square is the intent.

And yes if you remove material from the head, that must be accounted for, removing it from the block only increases your piston height which is what you gauge your head gasket on anyway.



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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:38   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieleephd View Post
When you remove .01 in from the head and .01 from the block, you have to add .02 to the head gasket and so on.
The head losing thickness also affects the necessary thickness of the gasket, not just how much the cylinder protrudes from the head.

This is the most common issue I see with rebuild HG's failing.

If I only account for piston protrusion and not the material removed from the head, I will end up with bent valves as well.

The gasket is absolutely dependent upon both dimensions, not one.

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Fact! Add in the amount of removed material from the head and that's your number.

However FALSE is the idea that on an ALH that the head gasket has anything to do with sealing ability is one of the dumbest things I've read on here!

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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:40   #39
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Frambach, you've got my number...text me if you need ideas or wanna run something by me...I'm dropping out as this isn't going anywhere.

Hope you get it up and going soon, I'll make the drive and wanna see it in action.

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Old September 17th, 2018, 09:19   #40
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It's not the cylinder that protrudes it's the Pistons...

And please justify how the cylinder will hold the head up from sealing...

Google block decking and watch a video and you'll see that the entire surface is cut down and flat/square is the intent.

And yes if you remove material from the head, that must be accounted for, removing it from the block only increases your piston height which is what you gauge your head gasket on anyway.



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Sorry, I meant to say piston, not cylinder, My bad.

If you have material taken off either, or both sides, it must be compensated for.
That's what I was saying, that's all.

Now as for the gasket sealing, don't you think that there's a seal between the cylinders and the water and oil ports?
Is this seal not gained with a properly installed head gasket?

Yes the gasket seals between the block and head.

Either way, the issue is either poor machining, or improper gasket thickness, or improper torquing of the head against the gasket to seal the deal.



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Old September 17th, 2018, 09:23   #41
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Sorry, I meant to say piston, not cylinder, My bad.

If you have material taken off either, or both sides, it must be compensated for.
That's what I was saying, that's all.

Now as for the gasket sealing, don't you think that there's a seal between the cylinders and the water and oil ports?
Is this seal not gained with a properly installed head gasket?

Yes the gasket seals between the block and head.

Either way, the issue is either poor machining, or improper gasket thickness, or improper torquing of the head against the gasket to seal the deal.



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Improper thickness will not...WILL NOT!!!!! Cause a seal failure!!!!!!!!!

Do you understand why there are different thicknesses? There is only 1 reason... interference issues...that's all...go back to thinking that coolant can get in the oil through the water pump

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Old September 17th, 2018, 10:09   #42
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So your telling me that if my gasket is too thin and the piston is at TDC there is no possible way for it to hold the head up causing it not to seal?

That's the first image that entered my mind is a piston at TDC supporting the head causing it not to make contact.

If you torqued the rear bolt first the issue would present in the front right in the exact location stated in this post.

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Old September 24th, 2018, 18:25   #43
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Here’s a video of the smoke at the oil pressure gauge port.

https://youtu.be/A2TwKe4I_mU

Unfortunately, all work has ceased for the moment as work has picked up and I can’t seem to get in touch with my builder.
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Old October 3rd, 2018, 05:24   #44
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I can't remember which cylinders are at TDC at the same time, however I am thinking 1 and 4.
If that's the case then what I see as a great possibility is that the gasket is thin enough that with the engine locked down at TDC, as often is the case, the Pistons held the head up and prevented proper torquing and sealing of the gasket.
Also I recommend checking to see if you have a bad oil cooler, as this could be the reason as well, and you should be able to put smoke into the cooling line there, clamping to ensure it is isolated, and see if it's the cause.
Hopefully you will have a bad heat exchanger and the builder has not screwed up, best case scenario? Not sure but worst case scenario is re-re-build...

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