ALH engine surge

TonganDiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2000 Black 5 speed manual 234k miles, 2002 Black auto Jetta 309K miles
I have a 2001 Golf with 249K miles. I swapped in a 5 speed. I rebuilt the turbo because it was smoked, not much, on first and second gear. I rebuilt the turbo by replacing the CHRA with a Dorman cartridge from Rockauto, [It was still Chinese CHRA after I opened the box]. There was quite a bit of oil in the intercooler so I drain and clean it up. I also drilled a small hole under the intercooler and then plug it with a screw. I clean the intake manifold and EGR valve. I replaced the timing belt and replaced the fuel filter. These works were done in the past month. I drove the car for the first time last Friday. It runs great with good power. However, when I drive up on the ramp at the parking structure, I feel the engine surge at low RPM while I am on first gear. There was no surge at idle. It only surge at low RPM … like in first gear until I get out of the first gear. I scanned it and found code 17079 Quantity Adjuster N146 upper limit reached. The glow plug was blinking all the time after 10 second of the engine started.
I figure out the wiper arm of the N146 does not move to WOT at the turn of the key. The field 019 for the piston movement was 0.6v at the low end and 2.6v at high end. I decided to replace the pump.
The pump came from an unknow junk yard Beetle. When I picked it up, I survey the car and concluded the car fail due to a bent TB tensioner stud. I feel the pump is safe and operational.
After I replaced the pump, I tried for 30 minutes to start the engine but fail. I retard and advance the timing until it fired up at the advance position. As soon as it started, it surges to 1000 plus RPM then drop back to 900 RPM for a few seconds then it takes off to 3000 RPM where I was scare and turned the engine off. I tried several times to turn on the car but still have the same results of hitting the 3000 RPM. It was smoked like hell come from underneath of the car and between the engine and the firewall. It was dark so I did not see of the smoke comes from the tail pipe.
There is no error code of any kind. The 17079 code is now gone away and no more blinking glow plug light on the dash. I feel the pump fix the code 17079. I can’t figure out why the smoke and the surge and wishing you gives me suggestions on what to try next.
Thank you
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
repeat but start it with the inlet to the manifold off, this eliminated your boost and takes the turbo out of the equation. If it continues your pump needs to be rebuilt.
 

TonganDiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2000 Black 5 speed manual 234k miles, 2002 Black auto Jetta 309K miles
The pump I installed is a 10mm from a 5 speed. The Golf was an automatic with the 11mm. So I am replacing a 11mm with a 10 mm. Do I need to adjust the fuel?
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
it is all wrong, but it should at least idle okay
The auto got small injectors and the big pump, manual got big injectors and small pump, your setup you describe seems to be small injectors, small pump.

sounds like the pump topcover is too far to the driver's side, google "hammer mod" and order a set of top cover seals because they will leak after you knock the topcover over to where it'll idle properly.

Look at the "injected quantity (actual)" field, it's likely right up against 0 mg/str, whereas you want to bump the topcover over until it says something between 3 and 8 when at hot idle. Since you have the small injectors and small pump I'd err to the side of 3-5mg/str when setting it up.

Just to get it driveable, loosen the four bolts a bit and give the hex head banjo bolt a couple whacks to move it over a millimeter or so, then start it and bump it around (running) until it's sitting around 10mg/str to drive it around until it's warm, then adjust from there.

ETA: While you're doing the topcover o-rings, you can swap the whole topcover assembly off your 10mm pump onto the body of the 11mm pump your computer expects to see on the engine. You do have to swap the pumps again, but that's not a huge deal. Just something to keep in mind if driveability issues continue after doing the hammer mod to get it at least driveable.
 
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TonganDiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2000 Black 5 speed manual 234k miles, 2002 Black auto Jetta 309K miles
repeat but start it with the inlet to the manifold off, this eliminated your boost and takes the turbo out of the equation. If it continues your pump needs to be rebuilt.
I tried your suggestion last night, removing the inlet tube from the intercooler into the EGR valve. Now the turbo is out of the circuit. It still surge and smoke however there was a difference. It will take about 25 seconds of surge and RPM built up. In every surge the RPM getting higher than the previous one and it keeps doing that until it eventually reached 3K RPM plus in which in that case I shut of the car. So I think as you suggested the turbo is good so I need to look at the IP pump. Thank you.

Note I experiment just for kick. I pulled the vacuum line into the EGR valve that control the exhaust plunger coming from the exhaust gas while the engine was running. The engine took off like a turbo runaway. Luckily, I put my hand in the inlet to stop air flow into the intake manifold and it stop the engine. My Harbor Freight glove , palm of my hand size, was suck into the inlet.
 
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TonganDiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2000 Black 5 speed manual 234k miles, 2002 Black auto Jetta 309K miles
it is all wrong, but it should at least idle okay
The auto got small injectors and the big pump, manual got big injectors and small pump, your setup you describe seems to be small injectors, small pump.

sounds like the pump topcover is too far to the driver's side, google "hammer mod" and order a set of top cover seals because they will leak after you knock the topcover over to where it'll idle properly.

Look at the "injected quantity (actual)" field, it's likely right up against 0 mg/str, whereas you want to bump the topcover over until it says something between 3 and 8 when at hot idle. Since you have the small injectors and small pump I'd err to the side of 3-5mg/str when setting it up.

Just to get it driveable, loosen the four bolts a bit and give the hex head banjo bolt a couple whacks to move it over a millimeter or so, then start it and bump it around (running) until it's sitting around 10mg/str to drive it around until it's warm, then adjust from there.

ETA: While you're doing the topcover o-rings, you can swap the whole topcover assembly off your 10mm pump onto the body of the 11mm pump your computer expects to see on the engine. You do have to swap the pumps again, but that's not a huge deal. Just something to keep in mind if driveability issues continue after doing the hammer mod to get it at least driveable.
I often wonder about that. I will do the hammer mod and report back tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

TonganDiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2000 Black 5 speed manual 234k miles, 2002 Black auto Jetta 309K miles
486 - You are a genius and a scholar. Your suggestion fix the problem. To simply put it in text for those who will search for this in the future. Problem, terrible surge and smoke like hell after I installed a 10 mm pump into an automatic 2001 Golf. The smoke was bad enough if you follow me you can't see me or the incoming traffic. The incoming traffic can't pass me because they can't see what is front of them. The engine surge was rev to a point as if the engine is runaway. As suggest by 486, I hammer mod the pump 1 mm toward the fuel filter. Just one tap then started the car. It starts and went into the right RPM then after it warm up, check the IQ to be 0.8 mg/str. I am now playing with that setting to increase it to 3 - 5 mg/str. I also set my timing just below the green line. I also felt the difference in power since I went from the 11 mm to the 10 mm. That is unfortunate but I am happy that I can drive. I am leaving in two weeks 1600 miles from MI to UT.
 
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