Broken water pump shaft - jumped time - bent valves?

I just got done diagnosing a friend's car that THEY thought had a bad injector pump.

Based on what they said, I verified that there isn't anything wrong with the pump. It just seemed to be out of time.

Pulled the upper timing belt cover off and immediately saw the sprocket for the water pump sitting at a very weird angle relative to the belt. A quick poke with a long pry bar confirms that the shaft on the pump either broke, or the bearing is fubar.

At this point I know it's going to need at least a pump kit with new belt and tensioners. I don't know if these ALH engines are zero clearance or not, but what's my chances of NOT having a bunch of bent valves to go along with the existing problems?

Is there a way to quickly assess the situation and see if it's even worth trying to get away with just the pump, belt and timing?

I don't want to waste time and money on it only to find out the head has to come off too.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

If it is out of time, you have bent valves...

belome said:

If it is out of time, you have bent valves...

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Thought so..... damn it.

Can I check the timing with the water pump sprocket being messed up like it is? I probably already know the answer to that question, but I'm new to diesels and thought I'd ask.

Does it bind when turned over with a wrench on the crank?. Can you turn it over by hand? Did the car die on the road driving? Does it currently run? How long has it been since the last tbelt job. It can be of a tooth or 2 and not bend valves.

The belt was just done less than a year ago when he had a used pump installed. He did not do the water pump then (why I don't know).

The car was driving fine and then just died about 3 months ago.

He thought it was the used pump going bad, but after checking I have decent pressure when the injector lines are cracked. I also verified that the fuel shut off valve is working with both a test light while cranking and I even took it out and applied 12 volts to it (the plunger buzzes back and forth - is this normal or is it supposed to stay retracted when energized?)

VCDS showed a bunch of codes due to a low battery. I cleared them, cold booted the ECU, and scanned again. No further engine codes.

It cranks over fine, but does not even try to fire. That's what lead me to checking the timing next.

Other than looking over the cam area it's kind of hard to tell what damage it has.
Depends a lot on what happened when the car "just died", was it idling, full throttle on the highway?
I wouldn't try to start it until you verify the cam, crank and IP are aligned. If the cam and crank are out or if the belt could slip, you may cause further damage.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4384039#post4384039

you are probably lookin at same failure

Try to time the engine with the old pump in place , the belt will just jump over the sprocket. if everything lines up and there are no missing teeth in the belt , you are most likely OK
if it does not line up, it jumped timing

Pull the valve cover and inspect for curiousity sake mostly, but the head will have to come off and get some valves (and other parts, probably a cam) replaced. They won't really often look damaged, but the stems get compressed and will fail later if left alone. Normally the exhaust valves are the first to get smacked.
Check piston(s) for damage marks and piston protrusion equal among all four.

Have you confirmed timing marks don't line up properly? if they line up you probably dont have any bent valves.

bbob203 said:

Have you confirmed timing marks don't line up properly? if they line up you probably dont have any bent valves.

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Wouldn't hurt to check it out, I guess.
But the engine died, so no doubt it went "out of time". I don't know how it couldn't slip with WP shaft and sprocket cockeyed in the belt path as described.

Too busy shoveling freaking snow today and didn't work on it. I'll get back at it tomorrow.

One other thing that I just remembered when trying to crank it is that the glow plug light on the dash never does light up.

Area351 said:

Too busy shoveling freaking snow today and didn't work on it. I'll get back at it tomorrow.

One other thing that I just remembered when trying to crank it is that the glow plug light on the dash never does light up.

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I know about snow removal time/work......

The lack of GP indicator is most likely seperate issue, but will make for a no start if the relay 109 (main power relay) is out.
I would not try to crank/start this engine until you are positive the TB has not slipped and gone out of time. Or start it with the WP in the condition mentioned. That would seem to be asking for (more) trouble.

if you can crank it over your probably ok but stop doing it!

Area351 said:

Too busy shoveling freaking snow today and didn't work on it. I'll get back at it tomorrow.

One other thing that I just remembered when trying to crank it is that the glow plug light on the dash never does light up.

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When you get time focus on assessing the possible damage then getting the belt fitted on a timed engine with all those pieces intact if not replaced.
Any dash lights, CEL codes, etc. won't help at this point.
Good luck and stay warm!

I ordered a water pump kit (pump, belt, tensioners, etc) and it came in today. Still no time to work on it though.

I'm going to hit it hard tomorrow. I'll keep everyone updated.

I don't have all the speciality tools for these diesels, but I've done 1.8T belts before using a thick parallel in the cam slot to keep them lined up.

Is it doable like this on the 1.9 or do I absolutely need the Metalnerd tool kit?

I had planned on pulling the vacuum pump, valve cover and using a similar parallel in the end of the cam (with last cap removed), line up lower pulley at TDC and use a drill bit (shank end) in the IP hole.

Its doable, not suggested perhaps. Need the tensioner tool.
Required reading thru a few time FIRST and during.....
http://pics2.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
VCDS for final timing adjustment.

You want the tools. Makes its a no guesswork kind of job. I'll rent you mine pm me if your interested. I have the full metalnerd kit.

bbob203 said:

You want the tools. Makes its a no guesswork kind of job. I'll rent you mine pm me if your interested. I have the full metalnerd kit.

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PM on it's way.

I appreciate it.

I just had a very bad experience using a generic two jaw puller for the camshaft sprocket....you will be very happy using the metarnerd tool for that.

Wankel7 said:

I just had a very bad experience using a generic two jaw puller for the camshaft sprocket....you will be very happy using the metarnerd tool for that.

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Yeah, I read your post.

I just removed one today with a brass drift and small hammer. One good whack and it popped right off. Luckily.

I may just buy the tools. I have this one here and one of my own that's going to need a belt soon. I'm doing my first TDI swap from a sedan to a wagon.