alh won't crank

I went to start the car.
It cranked kind of weird. Hard and like it stayed starving for fuel.
Held it for a good 6-7 seconds. Much longer than it ever needs to start in this weather.
Let it rest for 10 seconds.
Went to crank again, and nothing. Battery is all good.

Any ideas ? Would it be the starter? I don't think so, since it cranked first. But wouldn't turn over.

Rolled it on a hill, and it wouldn't pop start either.

Any ideas of what to check?
I am not a car guy. But I have tools and can check things provided I am directed.

It's an 01 alh jetta TDI with 240K. Timing done 100K ago.

You sure the battery is good? Because it doesn't sound like it.

LNXGUY said:

You sure the battery is good? Because it doesn't sound like it.

Click to expand...

Didn't have a tester on me.
However, I can have the radio on MAX, HID lights on, and blower on level 4 cranking out air.
When I turn the key, I don't even get a slight hesitation attempt at cranking.
It's 100% not the battery being drained.
However, it could be an electrical connection to the battery that is necessary to crank?
I dunno. Wish I was a car guy when this happens.

Not sure what your original issue was, maybe too slow cranking, but sounds like the starter is cooked now.

BuzzKen said:

Not sure what your original issue was, maybe too slow cranking, but sounds like the starter is cooked now.

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Guess I'll get it to the Bug Shop in Hamilton Mon morn.

Basically it cranked STRONG, but rough the first turn-over.

But felt like it was getting no fuel.

Ie: wasn't even starting to turn over. Just cranking....

Then went to crank again, and nothing.... not even a wizzz.....

How much am I looking at replacing the starter in this beast???

Edit:
wait, even if the starter is bad, wouldn't it pop start by rolling down a hill. It's MT tranny

I did that.... no go...

Your HID's act as stock day time running lights?

Your vocabulary is confusing me. Cranking and Turning over is the same think to me, but you say one thing is happening and not the other.

ok define crank weird....your first post. ie slowly, quickly or abnormal sounds.

cranking and turning over is the same thing. When the engine tries to fire ie starter engaged, and engine tries to start it is firing .At any time did the engine want to start (fire) but wouldn't.

Pop start? bump start...what gear did you use? and did it turn over normally when clutch was released.

On your fuel filter, is there fuel in the clear line?

When you turn the key on, everything does what it is supposed to do ie warning lights, glow plugs etc. Have you tried boosting it from another car?

Any CELS ....more simple questions is there fuel, how much, and how long since the fuel filter was changed.

So, it is not turning over now, do you hear the starter click or do anything?

Guys, what if it's the TB. OP did say it was done 100K, so if it's slipped, it woud crank. Then you over crank and kill the starter.

Would also explain why a pop start wouldn't work either.

I agree, could be as simple as a bad ground...when a belt is gone it will crank quickly, and engine sounds weird due to a lack of compression. Or, if it is jammed by a valve it will not turn over at all. But it would click and make noise, his description makes it sound electrical...

Is that an Ontario term...pop start?

I've cooked a few starters with a bad ground. Cranks once, then the next time i could smell ozone.

I always called it a bump start.

Have you tried boosting it?

petea4 said:

Your HID's act as stock day time running lights?

Your vocabulary is confusing me. Cranking and Turning over is the same think to me, but you say one thing is happening and not the other.

Click to expand...

No. I flicked em on for battery dummy test.

we are asking, op is not responding. *shrugs*

Windex said:

Have you tried boosting it?

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Hi Adam.
Yes I did

First thing I did was boost. Then I realized it's not a dead battery when all the compartment lights, head lights, fan radio work at the same time nice and strong.

How did you bump start it on the hill?..., it should have fired up even with a bad starter/battery. Ive done this multiple times. Get a nice little rolling start, force tranny into 1st gear as its rolling, pop the clutch.

It sounds like starter related issue

On smart phone so forgive me if words come out funky.
Yes. It tried to fire the first time. Turned the key. It chug get but never fired up.

The sound was a bit louder than usual. And sounded like it wasn't feeling any fuel at all. J not horrible. Just not quite the sound I'm used to.

Pop start. I guess I meant pop the clutch.? Lol.
Tried in third gear. Got a good speed for it. Went into gear fine. Bumped a couple times as it slowed down and stopped rolling.

Good question about the fuel line. Will check her as soon as I get home.

Yes. All lights. Glow plug warming light, dash etc. Respond properly and seem to be functioning normal.
Tried a boost. No response. It was a clean connection with proper size cables.

Fuel is 2 days old from Crappy tire with above 3/4 tank.

Nope. Doesn't turn over now. No noise or attempt at a crank when key is turned. The only noise I hear is when I turn the key and then press the clutch all the way down to see if that trigger is working where the clutch needs engagement to turn the car over. And I hear that 'tick' so I know that switch is working fine.

craig01b said:

ok define crank weird....your first post. ie slowly, quickly or abnormal sounds.

cranking and turning over is the same thing. When the engine tries to fire ie starter engaged, and engine tries to start it is firing .At any time did the engine want to start (fire) but wouldn't.

Pop start? bump start...what gear did you use? and did it turn over normally when clutch was released.

On your fuel filter, is there fuel in the clear line?

When you turn the key on, everything does what it is supposed to do ie warning lights, glow plugs etc. Have you tried boosting it from another car?

Any CELS ....more simple questions is there fuel, how much, and how long since the fuel filter was changed.

So, it is not turning over now, do you hear the starter click or do anything?

Click to expand...

And yes, if you pop(bump) started it the starter has nothing to do with your problem....

PduBerer said:

How did you bump start it on the hill?..., it should have fired up even with a bad starter/battery. Ive done this multiple times. Get a nice little rolling start, force tranny into 1st gear as its rolling, pop the clutch.

It sounds like starter related issue

Click to expand...

First gear is a little rough to bump start a car into. At least 2nd. Pref. 3rd. Much smoother and easier on car/tranny.

Ya. Hill. Roll. No go.

craig01b said:

we are asking, op is not responding. *shrugs*

Click to expand...

Oh I'm responding. out with wife for late lunch. On smart phone.
She keeps giving me the eye.

I have also seen a truly dead battery with a dead cell not allow a boost. Not starting while rolling the car is pointing to other things rather than a starter.

I usually use 2nd gear to bump a car, 1st tends to make your nose meet the windshield, and 3rd may not provide enough rpms if you are not rolling fast enough.

You seem to have more than one problem right now by your description...

Oh, and don't make it worse by ignoring your wife.....happy wife, happy life!

craig01b said:

Oh, and don't make it worse by ignoring your wife.....happy wife, happy life!

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lol... I keep hearing that comment!
Mostly from her!

Although I think I tracked down the original reference a couple years ago. From some old 80's song?

Yes, sadly, I think it is more than one problem.
I will try to fiddle with it in morning light. I really appreciate the diagnostics/steps you tried to take me through.
Thanks!

Edit:
oh, the song I remember actually went something such:
If you want a good life, don't marry, a pretty wife!

I always thought that was a funny line...

I like the one where you have to have a wife who likes your jokes

a wife who is great in bed.

a wife who cooks like a chef,

and a wife who is independently wealthy....

and these 4 women can never meet....I can hear my wifes eyeballs rolling now.

And today is our 29th anniversary...we both forgot, just going to remind her now!!!

quick video. Not that it does any good. But shows how there's no crank, and good battery power (visually).

Excuse the non-focus. More so, excuse the stupidity of filming under the hood, and forgetting to pan to the clear fuel line.... DOH... It was dark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15H0j4SGygM&feature

Given that the engine will not turn when the key is in "Start", the next thing I would do woudl be to check the small wire going to the starter solenoid to see if it gets 12v when you go to start the car. If it does, then you have a bad starter/starter solenoid.

If you don't get 12v there, you may need a scan to determine if there is an immobilizer issue - though the little key lamp in the cluster is not flashing so I'm guessing starter.

So there is fuel in the clear fuel line? I agree Adam, look for voltage at the starter solenoid. You could also jumper that from the battery, just make sure car is in neutral, otherwise you could run yourself over. No protections like clutch switches if you do that.

What puzzles me is the no start when he tried to bump(pop) start it. But, attempting it in 3rd gear may not have provided enough rpms to get it to go.

Might also be an ignition switch gone bad. Which could explain both scenarios possibly. immobilizer should show on the dash if it is not working...correct?

Has the starter been making unusual noises recently?

craig01b said:

So there is fuel in the clear fuel line? I agree Adam, look for voltage at the starter solenoid. You could also jumper that from the battery, just make sure car is in neutral, otherwise you could run yourself over. No protections like clutch switches if you do that.

What puzzles me is the no start when he tried to bump(pop) start it. But, attempting it in 3rd gear may not have provided enough rpms to get it to go.

Might also be an ignition switch gone bad. Which could explain both scenarios possibly. immobilizer should show on the dash if it is not working...correct?

Has the starter been making unusual noises recently?

Click to expand...

starter may have sounded rough one or 2 times. But nothing to alarm me. Esp since it was probably quite cold those 1 or 2 times....

In a way, I am hoping it is just the starter so it's not too bad that way. A bad wire would be even more forgiving. But I doubt it.

Just had it towed to bug shop, so can't check fuel line now.

Windex said:

Given that the engine will not turn when the key is in "Start", the next thing I would do woudl be to check the small wire going to the starter solenoid to see if it gets 12v when you go to start the car. If it does, then you have a bad starter/starter solenoid.

If you don't get 12v there, you may need a scan to determine if there is an immobilizer issue - though the little key lamp in the cluster is not flashing so I'm guessing starter.

Click to expand...

Hey Adam, I just had it towed to the Bug shop. They have been decent so far with me, so hopefully, it's a quick find for them.

I'll let you guys know the outcome when I hear word.

craig01b said:

So there is fuel in the clear fuel line? I agree Adam, look for voltage at the starter solenoid. You could also jumper that from the battery, just make sure car is in neutral, otherwise you could run yourself over. No protections like clutch switches if you do that.

What puzzles me is the no start when he tried to bump(pop) start it. But, attempting it in 3rd gear may not have provided enough rpms to get it to go.

Click to expand...

Yes, best not to get run over

I have had the pleasure of bump starting many vehicles in my time (including some heavy trucks!), and unless the car is warm and the pavement clear, bump starting a TDI is difficult compared to gassers. The compression makes the car very prone to slipping the tires in lower gears, and it's hard to get enough cranking RPM in higher gears. I have had the best luck in 2nd, again with clean dry pavement.

Reminds me of my first car - a 75 MGB - I became very adept at bump-starting it all on my own thanks to the wonderful Lucas electrics it came equipped with. It helps that it didn't weigh very much.