It May Be Diesel's Turn to Shine As Americans Yawn at Hybrids

darrelld

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North Texas
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2014 Tesla Model S85, 2017 Chevy Bolt
American consumers are boosting their interest in — and loyalty to — clean-diesel engines at the same time they’re demonstrating more and more indifference to hybrids.
“Repurchase loyalty” for diesel powertrains increased by nearly 10 percentage points last year compared with 2008 while consumer repurchase rates for hybrid technology remained about flat at 35 percent, according to new data compiled by R.L. Polk. Diesel’s jump in repurchase loyalty as measured by Polk hasn’t been reported, while news about hybrid-repurchase trends was widespread yesterday.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebus...at-hybrids-it-could-be-diesels-turn-to-shine/
 

DickSilver

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Kentucky
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It is a disappointment that VW is currently not putting any TDIs into its base models. So there is s base Golf or Jetta with a 2.5 liter gasser in the area of $20k, but no TDI unless you spend about $25k. They would sell a LOT more TDIs if they did that.
 

fordt

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Comfort
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If the Mazda CX5 beats a Tiguan to the diesel market here, VW will really be behind the curve. On a brighter note, at least this article didn't mention the old line "most Americans remember the diesel failures of the 70's in GM vehicles, and that is swaying their opinion of oil burners"!!!!! Maybe we're finally past THAT quote!
 

bhtooefr

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It is a disappointment that VW is currently not putting any TDIs into its base models. So there is s base Golf or Jetta with a 2.5 liter gasser in the area of $20k, but no TDI unless you spend about $25k. They would sell a LOT more TDIs if they did that.
As has been stated time and time again...

Options barely cost VW anything, the TDI engine costs VW about $5k more. So, VW can hide the engine cost in options.
 

16vjohn

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As has been stated time and time again...
Options barely cost VW anything, the TDI engine costs VW about $5k more. So, VW can hide the engine cost in options.
I agree, but 5k more than what? The crap 25mpg 2.0L 8V engine from the 90's? Equipping current generation vehicles with that engine is an insult to the brand.
 

RabbitGTI

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Jul 20, 1997
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Wisconsin
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B4 Passat Sedan
2.0 will easily get 25 city and 34 hwy with a manual and somebody who knows how to drive. It's also simple and will last forever. Not one of the high compression, turbo, small displacement gas motors from any manufacturer will make it to 200k. And the "economy" of the new diesels is questionable too once you factor replacing emissions equipment if you try to drive them to high miles.
 

16vjohn

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If simplicity and longevity are key points for a buyer, then you would be an idiot not to go with a Yaris that's capable of 40mpg for 2 grand less. I see what you're trying to say, but I hardly agree with the case for the 2.0L 8V. That engine should have died with the Mark 4.
 

16vjohn

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Really man? And the Jetta S is going to do better? I'd have to think for a bit to tell you about stuff I haven't fixed or replaced on my Mark 4 that had nothing to do with the engine. The last 10 years of Volkswagen chassis durability has been a joke. The passion in engineering is there, but the cars hit the chopping block in accounting long before we see them. And the 200,000 mile Corollas that still sell for as much as TDI vehicles is quite impressive.

I'm not here to make the case for Toyota, but you can hardly argue that the 2.0L 8V Jetta can even begin to compete in the economy market. I'd argue the 2.0L 8V Jetta will market to the "German enthusiast in poverty with no college education" demographic. "Simple" is something is has going for it, but that's about it. It's an insult to the brand, man.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Really man? And the Jetta S is going to do better? I'd have to think for a bit to tell you about stuff I haven't fixed or replaced on my Mark 4 that had nothing to do with the engine. The last 10 years of Volkswagen chassis durability has been a joke. The passion in engineering is there, but the cars hit the chopping block in accounting long before we see them. And the 200,000 mile Corollas that still sell for as much as TDI vehicles is quite impressive.

I'm not here to make the case for Toyota, but you can hardly argue that the 2.0L 8V Jetta can even begin to compete in the economy market. I'd argue the 2.0L 8V Jetta will market to the "German enthusiast in poverty with no college education" demographic. "Simple" is something is has going for it, but that's about it. It's an insult to the brand, man.
Actually, the "brand" made a brand for itself based on simple. Those who do not remember history I pity. Go take a look at a 1965 Beetle. THAT is what made the brand. And cars like the gen1 Golf continued that trend. Not fragile, overly complex, expensive diesels. :rolleyes:
 

That Guy

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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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I'm wondering when diesel (or any fuel) powered turbine engines will start becoming the norm. They're supposed to be very fuel efficient, powerful, and clean burning.

The use of flywheels for energy storage and recovery is also interesting. I think Porsche was testing this recently. And I think I remember hearing that Audi was thinking about this too for the LeMans.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If they made the current car truly simple it would be durable, no doubt. My wagon with crank windows, no roof, manual mirrors, no heated or power seats have been trouble free for 10 years and 260K. A similarly equipped Jetta sedan with the 2.0 would be very reliable and inexpensive transportation, I'd bet. But no one would buy it.
 

RabbitGTI

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I will see a unicorn in drag before I see a 200k Yoda where I live. The motors are all sludged up long before that and the rest of it leaves a trail of rust scales wherever it goes.
 

TomJD

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I was gonna say! My best friend drives a 1996 Camry that has well over 200k miles. His dad is the original owner. It has the small 4 cylinder engine, a 5 speed manual, and bare bones on everything else. It is certainly possible to pass 200k on a "yota"
 

T-Roy

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Actually, the "brand" made a brand for itself based on simple. Those who do not remember history I pity. Go take a look at a 1965 Beetle. THAT is what made the brand. And cars like the gen1 Golf continued that trend. Not fragile, overly complex, expensive diesels. :rolleyes:
Amen to this! I agree completely, especially the last part is why I'm more in love with the older ones now.
Low maintenance, cheap parts, a blind monkey can work on them they are so simple really, and still averaging 48 mpg tanks at 375k miles.
I don't need bookoos of power or much in terms of "modern" features and styling to get me from point A to B as cheaply as possible...
 

GTIDan

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So. California
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It is a disappointment that VW is currently not putting any TDIs into its base models. So there is s base Golf or Jetta with a 2.5 liter gasser in the area of $20k, but no TDI unless you spend about $25k. They would sell a LOT more TDIs if they did that.
Not really. According to my dealer the allotment of TDIs to the US is fixed and they have no trouble selling all they bring in at the current price. Only so many TDIs make it to states. Unlike many Hybrids, the TDI is sold all over the world.
 

deezelpower

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Martha Lake, WA
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I don't see base model hybrids either...

Seems any niche type of vehicle is sold fully-loaded, since they'll sell them anyway and they're more profitable.
 

delliott777

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usa
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2003 Jetta
I agree.
Also, I'd love to see the Tiguan with a TDI. Entry price into a Tiguan is around 23k. But, if I want a TDI SUV, I gotta go with Touareg which is 47k to start in a TDI. The price difference between an entry gas Jetta and TDI Jetta is about 6k. So, I'm thinking an entry TDI Tiguan would run close to 30k.
I would like to note that a Tiguan Hybrid is 62k. So, we see a diesel engine is cheaper, probably lasts much longer, stronger and no hybrid batteries to replace.

Hey VW, hook me up with a TDI Tiguan and I might trade my Jetta in. I'm pushing 220k miles... Lots of life still in her.

~Dave
 

forcedfedbug

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miles

2.0 will easily get 25 city and 34 hwy with a manual and somebody who knows how to drive. It's also simple and will last forever. Not one of the high compression, turbo, small displacement gas motors from any manufacturer will make it to 200k. And the "economy" of the new diesels is questionable too once you factor replacing emissions equipment if you try to drive them to high miles.

I have a 2000 bug 1.8t with 200k on it and it still gets 32 on the hwy. its been chipped since 500 miles. So this is just not true.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Richmond, BC, Canada
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Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
I won't be showing any "repurchase loyalty" until they come out with a mid-size diesel SUV (not the $80,000 or whatever it costs Tuareg).

Diesel, AWD Tiguan....or Honda CRV, or Toyota RAV4. Anything like that with diesel and I might buy a new one.

Other than that, I'll just keep my Golf going for as long as I can, and when I have to, I'll buy an older used TDI to get me through another few years waiting for what I want.
 

Scenic Driver

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Orange County, NY
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I have a 2000 bug 1.8t with 200k on it and it still gets 32 on the hwy. its been chipped since 500 miles. So this is just not true.
Not true at all. My friend just passed 215k with his TT, another friend of mine got rid of his last year with 270k (it still worked). Both were chipped 1.8T's with lots of other mods.
 

Blonde Guy

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Santa Cruz, CA
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2011 Golf TDI
I hope not to need a new car for a long time. But when I do, I'll likely want a hybrid. The TDI takes a long time to warm up, and until it does, fuel economy is not good. While I've gotten up to 72 MPG on long trips, I often get 25 MPG on short ones. A plug-in hybrid would solve that nicely. There's no warm-up time for an electric motor. A 5-10 mile range would be plenty.
 

dsieme01

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LA
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I think diesels would sell more if we had someone build a quality product for a fair price. The 2009+ models are hard to swallow with the price of fuel system problems, Turbo chargers, frosty the intake and that's before the car is 5 years old. To be a winner they really need a car that goes 500K plus with no history for major repairs. (one off issues happen but no hpfp, mirrored cams, type issues)
 

kjclow

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Is there any car today that will go 500K without any major repairs? My 97 corolla might have except for the big truck trailer hitch in the grill. My 05 corolla has already had the AC system replaced. They will all need some type of repair that will be rather expensive compared to the value of the vehicle.
 

bhtooefr

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Probably the Jetta 2.sl0, and that might be it.

And, that's more like 250-300k without major repairs.
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
I will see a unicorn in drag before I see a 200k Yoda where I live. The motors are all sludged up long before that and the rest of it leaves a trail of rust scales wherever it goes.







Like a Timex.
 
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