VW Scirocco CR170 - CBBB - performance build

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Hi Andrew, thank you for the kind words.
It's all Bobby really :) I just throw money in his general direction.

The car is very much stronger now, we have such an improvement in the mid to top end, it feels like when you go from stock car to remapped all over again!

We are waiting on final development before releasing figures but we have got a good improvement in 1/4 mile terminal speed.

Original Darkside tune was 96-97
Bobby's Tune was 98-99
CP3 pump on we are doing consistent 102-103mph terminal speed - A great real world improvement.
 

YukonLT

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
N/A
TDI
2010 Golf TDI 6MT
Hell yeah! Great work, love seeing someone push this pump set up further!!
 

2micron

Vendor
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
None
Hi Andrew, thank you for the kind words.
It's all Bobby really :) I just throw money in his general direction.
The car is very much stronger now, we have such an improvement in the mid to top end, it feels like when you go from stock car to remapped all over again!
We are waiting on final development before releasing figures but we have got a good improvement in 1/4 mile terminal speed.
Original Darkside tune was 96-97
Bobby's Tune was 98-99
CP3 pump on we are doing consistent 102-103mph terminal speed - A great real world improvement.
.
Wonderful. You guys are incredible and your work is amazing.
The entire Tdi community world wide is truly impressed and waiting for Bobby to make the next advancement!!! He is solving issues that no one else in the World has solved.
Truly Congrats Gents!
Andrew
 

SJay

New member
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Location
Netherlands
TDI
Golf Mk6 2.0 TDI CR
Very impressive and inspiring build. You and Bobby are doing a very good job. Because of you guys i'm also building a gtb2260vk turbo on my car (Golf 6 CBAB).

Do you know what your 1/4 mile time is at this moment?

Keep on going on the good work!
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Beautiful welds
Cheers, I'm guessing you are on about the welds on the harness bar.. that's Alex's handywork.

I can't weld :D

Very impressive and inspiring build. You and Bobby are doing a very good job. Because of you guys i'm also building a gtb2260vk turbo on my car (Golf 6 CBAB).
Do you know what your 1/4 mile time is at this moment?
Keep on going on the good work!

My 1/4 mile is 14s dead.

I could do better, I think easily 13.7, but I've only done one drag event since the new fuel pump and I had a track day the day after, so I was not launching the car hard. I also had new tyres (Dunlop Direzzas) which were 'too grippy' (there is such a thing!)

I'm glad you guys like the build. :)

Will be progressing as soon as we can. I need to build my bank balance back up first.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
No further engine tuning at the moment, just enjoying the power and smoothness of it all from Bobby's CP3 kit and tune.
Over winter I am going to source a new cylinder head, we will have it ported and refit with new HG and upgraded valve springs and any other bits we need to do.

IMG_3917-1 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

IMG_3920-3 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

That's how the car sits at the moment. I added some racing decals and a rear wing from one of the VW Cup series cars. Very noticeable improvement in how planted the rear feels over 80/90mph, will help on track.
 

Devilz

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Location
Birmingham
TDI
2011 VW CC GT 170
Impressive work Jamie.

I have booked my vehicle with Bobby as well for stage 2 tune. Can't wait........
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Thanks bud.
Wont be disappointed. My friend also has scirocco 170 that i had bobby tune.
Very impressive, keeps up annoyingly well with mine. He did 209 at surrey rolling road even with clutch slip! Well worth it :)
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
:)


20161006_132845-01 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

:)

Not sure on the michelin man now though...thinking of making taking off the large one on the rear.


Anyway, went to Santa Pod yesterday, had a good day.

2016-10-09_07-18-29 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr


Set a new PB, 13.6 @ 102.


I'm sure I could get to a 13.3 or 13.4, but I didn't want to break the car and I was happy to finally get into the 13s. Had a bit of luck with launching :)
 

3L3M3NT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI
TDI
04 Jetta GLS TDI, 04 RTDI
It's awesome to see the progress on the car. That's a great time on the drag strip.
Like you mentioned, yeah you might be able to get a faster time but at what cost... it's no fun to have to get your car towed home after some goes out.

I say ditch the Michelin man unless they're a sponsor and giving you a discount on tires.;)

Looking forward to see what it can do on the track.:D
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
It's awesome to see the progress on the car. That's a great time on the drag strip.
Like you mentioned, yeah you might be able to get a faster time but at what cost... it's no fun to have to get your car towed home after some goes out.
I say ditch the Michelin man unless they're a sponsor and giving you a discount on tires.;)
Looking forward to see what it can do on the track.:D
Thanks buddy :)

I have snapped a driveshaft on this car before, last time I was at Santa Pod actually. And blew up the gearbox on my old 1.9 Mk5 there a few years ago. You soon learn!

Only sponsor on that is AKS. Alex is a good friend of mine and is probably second only to Bobby in terms of the help I've had on the car.
I may remove it but will probably put a smaller sticker in there. Originally I had OZ and Forge (UK motorsport supplier) stickers on my original design.
The rest of the stickers are of things that are/have been on the car :)

Tracktime on Sunday at Silverstone circuit, hopefully will have some footage if I remember the Go-Pro lol.

Very nice!!

Great to see Diesel power doing so well :D

Thanks dude!
I'm hoping after the Winters upgrades to be in the high 12s, but we will see. :cool:
 
Last edited:

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Thanks buddy :)

I have snapped a driveshaft on this car before, last time I was at Santa Pod actually. And blew up the gearbox on my old 1.9 Mk5 there a few years ago. You soon learn!

Only sponsor on that is AKS. Alex is a good friend of mine and is probably second only to Bobby in terms of the help I've had on the car.
I may remove it but will probably put a smaller sticker in there. Originally I had OZ and Forge (UK motorsport supplier) stickers on my original design.
The rest of the stickers are of things that are/have been on the car :)

Tracktime on Sunday at Silverstone circuit, hopefully will have some footage if I remember the Go-Pro lol.




Thanks dude!
I'm hoping after the Winters upgrades to be in the high 12s, but we will see. :cool:
Rock & roll!
Looking forward to seeing that!
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
CT-14196-(ZF-4963-30979-1-002)-2 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

CT-14062-(ZF-4963-30979-1-001)-1 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr



Car behaved itself well.
PS4's were brilliant on the front, stuck well but did feel a bit roly poly.
AD08R were good on the back, back end was dead planted. I think with 245/40 AD08R on the front it will really help.
Currently we are 235/40 F and 245/40 R.

When I ran 245/40 Direzza 03g it was so planted, but they are too expensive for daily use so while I only have 1 set of tyres I think the AD08Rs are a great compromise.

I've moaned about it elsewhere but oil temps are driving me mental.
I am booked in early November with Alex for oil cooler.

Once that's in I should be fine and able to keep on it a lot more.

I am mid house move at the moment so not sure when the Go-Pro footage will be uploaded. Not much to see anyway.
 

3L3M3NT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI
TDI
04 Jetta GLS TDI, 04 RTDI
Great pictures! I'm looking forward to seeing the video.

Have you thought about getting a set of track only wheels and tires to put on either at the track or at home before heading to the track?
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.

3L3M3NT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI
TDI
04 Jetta GLS TDI, 04 RTDI
Looks like a good time out on the track.

Was the car getting that hot that you had slow down and move over to cool the car off?

Those Porsche drivers can be real pricks;)
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Yes, unfortunately after 2 or so laps oil temps went from 95-100 to over 120 and 120 is the max im prepared to run to, my oil (millers nanodrive 10w50) is a competition oil supposedly good for 150 peak sustained but i dont want to risk it.
Oil cooler goes on in a week so that should help :)
 
Last edited:

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Oil cooler update.

Due to track related oil temperature problems I wanted a solution. I had an idea and spoke with Alex @ AKS and we decided to try some stuff.

Darkside Developments sell a kit with a Mocal thermostatic plate but the oil cooler provided was a cheap Chinese one, so that was sent back and Alex sourced a Mocal 13 row cooler and kept the Thermostatic plate.

20161110_104249 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

I won't bore everyone with the fitting details but it wasn't exactly "bolt on".

We had to retain OEM oil cooler (OEM is a heat exchanger oil is circulated with coolant) however we had to modify the OEM oil cooler and remove the water feed.

20161110_131937 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Alex welding the brackets to give the right level of support.

20161110_151626 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Final fitted position.

20161110_185731 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

We started at 10am and I left the workshop around 8pm. We weren't working on it flat out all day though, but it was a bit fiddly.

We did also fit H&R 28/24 front and rear roll bars. This has really stiffened it up in the corners. Lovely.

Oil temps are much better now. Cruising they get to around 80 and stay there due to thermostatic plate. Even with several hard and long acceleration pulls it barely reached 90 so that's much better. Very happy.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Met up with Bobby on Saturday at Surrey Rolling Road
Had a good afternoon chatting to people.

Due to some of the figures coming out of Europe (claiming 270bhp + on stock cp4 pump) we decided to run a test on my car.

We ran a new map, with a dummy EGT sensor (so no EGT protection)
requested lambda 0.9 (another 5-10% more fuel than before)
(normal tune lambda is 1.1-1.2)

20161112_121707 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Even with the extra boost we were just getting extra smoke. Logs show lambda didn't get below 1.08.

You can see the graph before and after here. The pink (better curves) are the new v25 map and the blue ones were the old v24 map.

20161112_122514 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

You can see while we have dumped loads more fuel in, we are now up to over 430 lb ft of torque however power is exactly the same as before, albeit it holds at the top end now (due to EGT protection effectively not working).

Flat power curve is all well and good but further proves no more airflow available.
We are slowly ruling out any mechanical restrictions to downpipe or intake however this further points to prove that airflow through CR170 head is poor.

We thought the OEM lambda probe was faulty or defective as we could not believe the logs so we ran an independant Lambda probe

20161112_174952 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

20161112_175001 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

IMG-20161112-WA0008 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Turns out the oem lambda was within range and not telling us lies. We are 100% out of air.



On this particular tune due to excess fuel we were seeing a peak of 2.7bar despite request 2.4

After testing we put v24 tune back on as this tune is not safe for daily use.
 
Last edited:

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Gave the car it's yearly wash and decontamination.
IMG_4136-3 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Just a gentle polish, combination of Scholl S20 Black and Megs 205 on a mediumy pad (Green Hexlogic if you're interested).
IMG_4142-6 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Coated with Gtechniq Crystal Serum light which was a breeze to be honest.
IMG_4153-15 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Thanks to Elite Car Care for the use of the unit :)

I have a trackday. See how we stand with the oil cooler and suspension tweaks. (the H&R Rollbars and also fitted an UltraRacing underbody brace.)

After that I am collecting a Blue Needle cluster. (mine has Red needles. Blue came on some R-Line models)

And also Friday, getting a braided clutch line done at AKS as my OEM pipe burst leaving me broken down.
Annoyingly when we did the oil cooler we were going to do one but ran out of time.

I have sourced some additional parts as well with the help of Bobby, to help with power.
We have lots of special parts to go on. We will begin the rebuild soon.
 

3L3M3NT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI
TDI
04 Jetta GLS TDI, 04 RTDI
Looks like you were having a fun time out on the track, maybe too much fun in that one corner you over shot.;)
What's that metallic clank when you're cornering?

What rear wing is that on the car? I've been considering putting one on my Golf, but not sure what would fit...

I really like the look of the new cluster.:cool:
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Engine build soon?

Can't wait to see the details on that :D
We have ported head, new turbo and many other components.

We are aiming for mid to late feb turnaround, there are some annoying bits to sort out with Pipework but we will get there in the end. :)

Looks like you were having a fun time out on the track, maybe too much fun in that one corner you over shot.;)
What's that metallic clank when you're cornering?
What rear wing is that on the car? I've been considering putting one on my Golf, but not sure what would fit...
I really like the look of the new cluster.:cool:
Haha, yes, the video was from my first session and my first time at this circuit. So totally newbie to it. As the day went on I found some better lines and could go faster.

The metallic clunk is some alloy pipes I had behind the seats. After the track day I went to AKS Tuning as Alex is going to fabricate me up a new EGR / ASV delete pipe and I had a couple of different sizes of pipe so we could try some different things.

The wing is from a racing team in the UK who compete in the VW Racing Cup.

Cheers
:)
 
Last edited:

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Two years ago I ran into the same issues. I actually sold my performance cams, ported, head, dual valve springs, and custom valves last year to a guy in the usa.

Some helpful info maybe:

1) the v6 3.0l TDI CR motors have valves that are about 3mm larger in diameter than oem and same dimensions. they are also sodium filled! I'd suggest running those and just changing the slope angle and valve seat angles on them to fit your needs.

2) the oem intake valve ports split the air and have a very very aggressive reflow swirl built into one of the intakes for low RPM swirl and emissions. Removal of that will drastically help higher RPM but may mean more emissions on lower RPMs. Since you have a good tuner who isn't minding to tinker with new things, (unlike our USA tuners). I'd suggest you keep the intake flapper valves and use the controls to flow more at lower RPM through the single swirl valves that are like the MK4 VE heads. Those intake tracks I'd suggest to only clean them up and worry about the valve seat angles at first! By doing this you will drive a large volume of air at lower rpm to the swirl ports and you can take the old swirl ports and create them into straight feed valves like gas cars for higher RPM. Watch your flow ratios though to make sure you don't kill the swirl and 80% intake to exhaust flow ratio.

3) The cams which have been tested as drop in were used on stock heads. I suspect the flow ports in the head design are actually the limiting factors. Cams on top of a good port job may drastically increase your power potential at higher rpm if you can keep your fuel pressures up in the rail.

4) with the CP3 we were still seeing some fuel rail pressure drops. This was resolved by replacing the stock engine bay electric fuel pump with a heavy duty diesel one that the flows 3 times more pressure.

5) watch that transmission 4/5 gear spread. at the ~390ftlb these manuals have a tendency to walk the gears apart on the 02S transmissions. you might want to get that brace in there if it isn't there already.
 
Top