I have an 03 Jetta 5 speed. I consistently get 42-43 mpg. Wondering if any company has a programmer or chip I could install to increase my mileage. I put on about 30,000 miles a year so even a little increase would save me a fair amount. I would love to get 50. My buddy buys chips for several pickups and he has found some that claim they fit but they make no claims for increased mileage. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Chip or programmer - anything good for mileage
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40X40
Experienced
You want a TUNE. Not a chip, not a box.
See Rocketchip tuning.
See Malone tuning.
Bill
See Rocketchip tuning.
See Malone tuning.
Bill
40X40
Experienced
?? There are tunes for BOTH the DSG transmission and the engine ECU.
The original poster does not have a DSG in his old 2003 TDI, he has a manual transmission.
Bill
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
It's not that it isn't possible to see some fuel economy benefits through tuning, but you need to remember that engine output is dependent on the injection quantity. So, increasing fueling increases power output and decreasing fueling decreases output. It takes a given amount of power to maintain whatever your set speed is so your options are limited. Many people report some fuel economy improvements with performance tuning, but I usually attribute that to improved torque necessitating fewer downshifts.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
The greatest fuel economy benefits come from the driver and not a tune. Change how you drive and leave the car alone. It will take a long time to offset the cost of a tune with fuel savings from it. The "right foot mod" is free and at the discretion of the driver, and starts saving as soon as you start using it.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
To a point, yes. But how much? I am doing a little experiment now myself. My Golf normally gets around 50, I've tracked the last 5 tankfuls and my average has been 49.4. I drive fast, 80+ usually... with dips into triple digits pretty regularly.
I've decided to slow down and stay at the speed limit, which is 70 for most of my drive. It isn't easy, to be honest, hanging out with the Priuses and being swerved around and passed by everything else... so I won't continue this craziness beyond my experiment. But, we'll see just how much better my car can get... I'm only about 300 miles into my first "70-max" tank, though.
Thing is, it now takes me 10 minutes longer to get to work, sometimes 15 minutes (because I can't easily zip around the even-slower-than-70 Prius asshats without exceeded my own 70 limit or blocking up the normal people doing 80).
By the end of it, I'm sure any fuel savings will be forgotten by non-productive time on the road versus being to the shop and actually earning money instead. So for now, we'll see how it goes... I'm shooting for a 60 MPG tank, but I doubt I'll get that high, and I don't know if I can do this beyond just one tank's worth of driving.
I've decided to slow down and stay at the speed limit, which is 70 for most of my drive. It isn't easy, to be honest, hanging out with the Priuses and being swerved around and passed by everything else... so I won't continue this craziness beyond my experiment. But, we'll see just how much better my car can get... I'm only about 300 miles into my first "70-max" tank, though.
Thing is, it now takes me 10 minutes longer to get to work, sometimes 15 minutes (because I can't easily zip around the even-slower-than-70 Prius asshats without exceeded my own 70 limit or blocking up the normal people doing 80).
By the end of it, I'm sure any fuel savings will be forgotten by non-productive time on the road versus being to the shop and actually earning money instead. So for now, we'll see how it goes... I'm shooting for a 60 MPG tank, but I doubt I'll get that high, and I don't know if I can do this beyond just one tank's worth of driving.
40X40
Experienced
To a point, yes. But how much? I am doing a little experiment now myself. My Golf normally gets around 50, I've tracked the last 5 tankfuls and my average has been 49.4. I drive fast, 80+ usually... with dips into triple digits pretty regularly.
I've decided to slow down and stay at the speed limit, which is 70 for most of my drive. It isn't easy, to be honest, hanging out with the Priuses and being swerved around and passed by everything else... so I won't continue this craziness beyond my experiment. But, we'll see just how much better my car can get... I'm only about 300 miles into my first "70-max" tank, though.
Thing is, it now takes me 10 minutes longer to get to work, sometimes 15 minutes (because I can't easily zip around the even-slower-than-70 Prius asshats without exceeded my own 70 limit or blocking up the normal people doing 80).
By the end of it, I'm sure any fuel savings will be forgotten by non-productive time on the road versus being to the shop and actually earning money instead. So for now, we'll see how it goes... I'm shooting for a 60 MPG tank, but I doubt I'll get that high, and I don't know if I can do this beyond just one tank's worth of driving.
You should note that it's a 2000 Golf and probably the best maintained one in the country.
It helps if you know whose post you are reading too.
Bill
car54
theGAME
Stop babying it and drive it hard. It needs it to break in properly and really get going in the right direction. Don't worry about your MPG, just enjoy it.
And dont post condescending BS to a VERY well respected member, friend and one of the best TDI technicians in the country. You can doubt his mileage, we doubt your brains. =)
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
This is one of those areas that I think is often misunderstood. Low speed and low RPM does not always equal out to the best fuel economy. Volumetric efficiency is a curve where the best efficiency is often found in the mid-range. So, cruising around at low rpm can often be less efficient.
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
That's probably a good indicator of where your particular car gets the best fuel economy. It sounds really boring though. You could also try and stick to a speed for a tank or two and see how it works out at the pump.
40X40
Experienced
Stick your foot in it for a the first 10,000++ miles. Concentrate on getting used to the car and getting it 'broken in'.
Get a scan gauge II and you'll learn the car a lot quicker, plus it is handy for other things too.
See the 2012+ Passat forum for a few good threads.
Bill
DieselBruce
Veteran Member
Diesels don't really have great engine braking. You would need an exhaust brake, jake brake, or I suppose if the turbo vanes closed up nice and tight that would help too... Not sure if the new VWs do any of that. If not, engine braking is almost pointless on a diesel.
40X40
Experienced
Try not to use the brakes any more that necessary. Don't use them less than necessary either!
LOL, just look and plan way ahead..... you'll get the hang of it.
DRIVE SMOOTH, like a limo driver with a cranky boss in the back seat.
Bill
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Just so we're clear, my Golf isn't 100% stock... and seems to be a bit of a freak of nature.
If anyone is curious, here is what is changed:
92C thermostat
MAF delete tune (no idea whose it is)
no EGR
no mufflers (straight pipe after catalyst)
11mm pump
Bosch T4 injector nozzles (professionally set up by a shop)
GTI suspension (lowers the car maybe an inch, might improve high speed aero a wee bit?)
That's it. Running stock sized Michelin Primacy tires wrapped around stock Avus wheels, stock engine, turbo, transmission, etc.
This car's tune notoriously underfuels, no idea why. I had a lot of IQ fiddling to get it to run correctly. It is peppier than stock, but not as fast as an ALH can get. I'd say it moved about like a healthy stock BEW car. It doesn't smoke... at all, beyond a normal cold start-up puff. It doesn't even turn the oil black right away.
Not sure yet how far I'll get on this tank, but I am pretty sure I'll be close to 900 miles.
If anyone is curious, here is what is changed:
92C thermostat
MAF delete tune (no idea whose it is)
no EGR
no mufflers (straight pipe after catalyst)
11mm pump
Bosch T4 injector nozzles (professionally set up by a shop)
GTI suspension (lowers the car maybe an inch, might improve high speed aero a wee bit?)
That's it. Running stock sized Michelin Primacy tires wrapped around stock Avus wheels, stock engine, turbo, transmission, etc.
This car's tune notoriously underfuels, no idea why. I had a lot of IQ fiddling to get it to run correctly. It is peppier than stock, but not as fast as an ALH can get. I'd say it moved about like a healthy stock BEW car. It doesn't smoke... at all, beyond a normal cold start-up puff. It doesn't even turn the oil black right away.
Not sure yet how far I'll get on this tank, but I am pretty sure I'll be close to 900 miles.
MPLSTDI
Veteran Member
I use the Scanguage II and saw an improvement, as far as tunes I have a GDE Tune (ECO and HOT) and on my PD I did see a ~4MPG improvement when using the ECO tune. (50MPG summer vs 46MPG Prior, ~48MPG on my new commute (shorter))
I know that the ECO for the ALH aren't as much of a improvement in MPG as the PD. But for getting more power, better mileage and cleaner intake (EGR is bypassed for most of the time)
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=perfCompVW
From the GDE site:
FUEL ECONOMY COMPARISON
The fuel economy improvements are considerable when driving a constant speeds or accelerating conservatively, roughly 5mpg improvement on the PD motor and 2mpg on the ALH motor. If driving aggressively it is feasible to maintain stock fuel economy with much more performance. Driving style has a significant impact on overall fuel economy.
The ECO tune has a smoother pedal map to help achieve the FE gains in the part load operation. The HOT tune has an aggressive pedal map to provide better response, but this tends to reduce the FE slightly.
I know that the ECO for the ALH aren't as much of a improvement in MPG as the PD. But for getting more power, better mileage and cleaner intake (EGR is bypassed for most of the time)
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=perfCompVW
From the GDE site:
FUEL ECONOMY COMPARISON
The fuel economy improvements are considerable when driving a constant speeds or accelerating conservatively, roughly 5mpg improvement on the PD motor and 2mpg on the ALH motor. If driving aggressively it is feasible to maintain stock fuel economy with much more performance. Driving style has a significant impact on overall fuel economy.
The ECO tune has a smoother pedal map to help achieve the FE gains in the part load operation. The HOT tune has an aggressive pedal map to provide better response, but this tends to reduce the FE slightly.
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NC TDIpilot
Well-known member
I have the GDE tune in my 06 as well. Prior to the tune I averaged 43mpg with a best tank of 46. I have logged (on Fuelly) almost 100k miles on the GDE ECO tune and have averaged 50+ mpg over that time. 90-95% hwy miles with the cruise set for 74mph.
My best tank has returned 58mpg driving very conservatively with the CC set at 65-68. It was hard to maintain that speed for several hours. I even had one Prius pass me. It was embarrassing but in the end I know that there isn't a Prius out there that can get 58mpg.
YMMV,
Ben
My best tank has returned 58mpg driving very conservatively with the CC set at 65-68. It was hard to maintain that speed for several hours. I even had one Prius pass me. It was embarrassing but in the end I know that there isn't a Prius out there that can get 58mpg.
YMMV,
Ben
puntmeister
Veteran Member
No need to go so hard on Jon.
The idea of 50mpg at speeds of 80+mph (and at times above 100mph) is certainly tough to believe, even if its the ayatollah khomeni himself claiming it.
I'm not saying it isn't true - just that questioning it is perfectly legit.
As for engine braking versus coasting in neutral - TDI manuals run on zero fuel during engine braking, so, if coming to a stop, there is some fuel savings with engine braking. The fact that TDI's don't engine brake well (ie, coasting in gear won't stop the car quickly) is a bit of a plus, in terms of using it to optimize MPG - the poor engine braking means the glide-in-gear to a stop can be commenced earlier, resulting in greater fuel savings.
Ultimately, though, the point being made is that the best fuel efficiency will come from driving such that minimal braking (of any kind) is required. If coming to a stop, the ideal MPG would arise from coasting in neutral, naturally gliding to a stop right at the needed stopping point. No foot brake, no engine brake. Certainly not always possible (if ever), but that's what the goal is....
The idea of 50mpg at speeds of 80+mph (and at times above 100mph) is certainly tough to believe, even if its the ayatollah khomeni himself claiming it.
I'm not saying it isn't true - just that questioning it is perfectly legit.
As for engine braking versus coasting in neutral - TDI manuals run on zero fuel during engine braking, so, if coming to a stop, there is some fuel savings with engine braking. The fact that TDI's don't engine brake well (ie, coasting in gear won't stop the car quickly) is a bit of a plus, in terms of using it to optimize MPG - the poor engine braking means the glide-in-gear to a stop can be commenced earlier, resulting in greater fuel savings.
Ultimately, though, the point being made is that the best fuel efficiency will come from driving such that minimal braking (of any kind) is required. If coming to a stop, the ideal MPG would arise from coasting in neutral, naturally gliding to a stop right at the needed stopping point. No foot brake, no engine brake. Certainly not always possible (if ever), but that's what the goal is....
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cheoah
Veteran Member
Fer real. Let's not patronize sir oilhammer by assuming he needs our protection over an incredulous response.
Good points on fuel economy when coasting, one could really get some speed up,hypermiling I suspect.
What's this tune for the 2006 PD? sounds like you are able to switch tunes on the fly but I guess that's not right. Shifting into ECO.... Fifty plus sounds pretty sweet for a PD, I think we get 46 or so on highway.
I've not tuned either of our TDI's. I drive a diesel truck for work, which has had basic tunes and of course performance upgrades for regular towing, but I know little about VW tunes. Malone is all I've heard about, what's this other one?
Sent from my iSomething using Tapatalk
Apologies for typos, truly too busy to edit
Green Diesel Engineering
Vendor , w/Business number
Cheoah,
Our tunes are stored in a hand held flash tool. It takes about 4-5 minutes to switch tunes, so not on the fly. They are full engine tunes and we are able to gain fuel economy by making the combustion more efficient. Burning less fuel for the same torque output by modifying the injection timing, boost (vane position) and eliminating egr. We also modify the pedal map on the eco tune in the light load zones to desensitize the response a bit. In mid throttle and full load teh fueling is slightly higher as that is typically when folks want to make a pass or accelerate more briskly.
Thanks
Green Diesel Engineering
Our tunes are stored in a hand held flash tool. It takes about 4-5 minutes to switch tunes, so not on the fly. They are full engine tunes and we are able to gain fuel economy by making the combustion more efficient. Burning less fuel for the same torque output by modifying the injection timing, boost (vane position) and eliminating egr. We also modify the pedal map on the eco tune in the light load zones to desensitize the response a bit. In mid throttle and full load teh fueling is slightly higher as that is typically when folks want to make a pass or accelerate more briskly.
Thanks
Green Diesel Engineering
VW_TDi_
Veteran Member
The chip or chip box just dumps more fuel to make power which will waste your economy, but a real ecu tune is what can help your economy and make power when you need it.
CourierGuy
Veteran Member
Downshifting is "cool" and helps to slow down... but just keep this in mind: Brakes are cheaper, and easier than replacing a clutch. And if you have an expensive clutch, it amps the statement that much more.
For best mpg... keep this in mind: pretend you have NO BRAKES. Look at least 2 cars ahead.
I'm all about numbers. I live on the road. But really, I just drive the b!tch, and I get the mpgs I get. I don't cry at the pump. I just grin at the torque. Which is what these diesels are all about. Torque gets you up to speed. HP is top end speed. Speed limits(majority) happens before you redline 3rd...
I switched back to VWs because of the torque. My 93 Honda... LOL.. torque? ***? I do miss the 8k redline tho.... but I KILL my fuel mileage my civic had. I save 3000$/year in fuel on the TDI vs my 93 Civic.
OP asks for tuning for mpgs. Whatever tuning/box/power upgrades you/one can chose, it's all up to them. It gives you power. Power comes with responsibility. If you lay in it all day, bye bye mileage. If you drive normal, you'll get the same as stock power. In my case, the power is there when I need it. ALHs are sloths. CR140s have power at birth. In the end, it works out the same after you spend the cash on mods.
At the end of the day.. mpgs are always relative to the driver. Period. No magic pill here.
ps: I have around 83000km on my front brakes. And they have over 50% left - checked last week. Pads/rotors cost me $316 IIRC. Pretend you abuse your brakes.. pretend you just killed your brakes before 80k. Do the math, and see if the savings offset a few mpgs on your tune/driving habits
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