Oil Leak from new turbo, advice needed

I completed a AHU swap into my '81 Caddy last August and I have recently noticed oil leaking out of the exhaust and off of the turbo, collecting at the drain line. The engine had about 160k miles on it when I picked it up and the old turbo had some shaft play so I put in a brand new k03; it probably has about 1000 miles on it.

I pulled the turbo out this morning and you can see the turbine housing is soaked in oil.



The manifold flange had a decent amount of oil on it to.



The oil accumulating at the drain line appears to have come from the manifold flange. This is the part that has me questioning my thinking. Is this oil leak coming from the engine or the turbo? Has anyone seen something like this before on a new turbo?

Also of note is that there is some bluish smoke on start-up and during acceleration but otherwise the engine runs great, no loss of power at all. Thoughts?

Where did your new turbo come from?

Vince Waldon said:

Where did your new turbo come from?

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From the same guy as I got the engine. We runs a VW shop and I think he is on here frequently. My followup is to get a hold of him and find out if the vendor honors the Borg Warner warranty which is 1 year or 12,000 miles I believe.

Yup, probably a wise approach... 1K is not a lot of miles on a turbo.

The oil accumulating at the drain line appears to have come from the manifold flange. This is the part that has me questioning my thinking. Is this oil leak coming from the engine or the turbo? Has anyone seen something like this before on a new turbo?

Your above observation is valid for a possible engine oil leak as opposed to the turbo seal leak. A visit back to the VW shop is what I'd do also. Good luck.

Maybe pull the manifold off the head and see if oil is in head ports. That would point to engine.

Was old turbo wet when you pulled it off?

Ski in NC said:

Maybe pull the manifold off the head and see if oil is in head ports. That would point to engine.

Was old turbo wet when you pulled it off?

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Good suggestion Ski.

Ski in NC said:

Maybe pull the manifold off the head and see if oil is in head ports. That would point to engine.

Was old turbo wet when you pulled it off?

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That is my next move to pull the manifold off and see if I can trace it back. Looking into the manifold, it looked wet, so I think that this is likely the engine. My thoughts for possible causes at this point would be oil rings or head gasket; valve seals really won't cause this on a diesel right?

And as for the old turbo, I really don't remember as I didn't look at it for oil as I already decided on replacing it due to shaft play. Really wish I would have now. Learning experience.

Not looking good on my end:



Oil looks to be coming from cylinders 1 and 2. Crap, I'm pulling the head, aren't I?

I'm hesitating here.. Still not ready to bless the turbo and condemn the engine. If turbine shaft seal is puking, it could throw oil back up into manifold as that flow is really pulsing and it is possible for the oil to migrate upstream.

Did this come on suddenly? What was the oil loss rate? Anything done to the crankcase vent that might cause buildup there? Any change to exhaust system that might lower backpressure?

Usually engine problems causing oil loss come on gradually, or are joined by other symptoms such as low compression.

Any excessive idling?

To Ski's point, it might be worthwhile to perform a compression and leak down test while the heads still in place.

Tony

I'll run a compression test and a leak down test this weekend and see where the numbers come in.

Unfortunately, I really had not noticed this leak until a few months ago. But the truck has been sitting quite a bit and I have been driving it irregularly.

Over the course of the 1000 miles (rough estimate) on the engine since I completed the swap, it is probably down a quart of oil.

Crankcase breather tube was broke when I got the engine, replaced it with a new stock tube.

Thanks for the pointers so far!

I couldn't get my compression tester to fit, so I have been screwing around trying to find the right fittings (the 90 deg. bend was causing problems). No luck, so I ordered a new compression tester.

Of note, when I pulled the glow plugs out, they were covered in oil. Probably not a good sign either.

More to come soon.

2Reflexes said:

I couldn't get my compression tester to fit, so I have been screwing around trying to find the right fittings (the 90 deg. bend was causing problems). No luck, so I ordered a new compression tester.

Of note, when I pulled the glow plugs out, they were covered in oil. Probably not a good sign either.

More to come soon.

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a leakdown and compression test won't confirm oil slipping past the rings. In fact bad oil rings can give you better numbers on compression. I just put a provent filter on my ccv and now all my oil is gone from the turbo. before you pull the head, disconnect your CCV line at the intake snorkel and let it dump into a catch jar for a few hundred miles and see how much oil it pukes. the smoke you get through that open line is a little annoying but should give you an idea if your rings are bad. Mine uses a qt in 1000 miles but at least now it's not oiling my new turbo through the intake.

50harleyrider said:

a leakdown and compression test won't confirm oil slipping past the rings. In fact bad oil rings can give you better numbers on compression. I just put a provent filter on my ccv and now all my oil is gone from the turbo. before you pull the head, disconnect your CCV line at the intake snorkel and let it dump into a catch jar for a few hundred miles and see how much oil it pukes. the smoke you get through that open line is a little annoying but should give you an idea if your rings are bad. Mine uses a qt in 1000 miles but at least now it's not oiling my new turbo through the intake.

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That sounds like something I need to check out.

I had my doubts if you can really detect a bad oil ring but I ran a compression test anyways:

Cyl Run1 Run2 Run3
#1 500 540 565
#2 510 540 558
#3 520 542 558
#4 540 556 560

Since that looks good, I think my next step will be to try the catch can. I don't mind if it is using oil, I just don't want to be leaving an oil patch everywhere I go

valve guides worn out? especially exhuast on 1 and 2?

Yeah,the messy driveway is a lot more annoying than just adding a little oil. If you're at 1qt/1000 miles, I sure wouldn't start tearing it down especially with those numbers. Also if you get a chance, clean your engine good and make sure you don't have an external leak somewhere else besides the turbo/intake snorkel. If oil is getting into the intake,it can also find it's way out past the intake manifold gasket. They're only a thin flat plate and won't stop oil leaking out. Mine was still leaking even with a brand new garret GT15

2Reflexes said:

That sounds like something I need to check out.

I had my doubts if you can really detect a bad oil ring but I ran a compression test anyways:

Cyl Run1 Run2 Run3
#1 500 540 565
#2 510 540 558
#3 520 542 558
#4 540 556 560

Since that looks good, I think my next step will be to try the catch can. I don't mind if it is using oil, I just don't want to be leaving an oil patch everywhere I go

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Digesting this a little more, I have a few more thoughts.

The compressor side of the turbo was clean, no sign of oil. So the oil is strictly coming from the exhaust side. So does this rule out a CCV problem?

Regarding valve guides/seals, I seem to see conflicting opinions on whether their failure would cause noticeable problems. I get smoke on start-up, under acceleration and then the oil found in the exhaust manifold. And the smoke is oil; I can tell by the smell and color that it is not fuel related.

2Reflexes said:

The compressor side of the turbo was clean, no sign of oil. So the oil is strictly coming from the exhaust side. So does this rule out a CCV problem?

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Yes...and it pretty much points to the turbo oil seals. Did the exhaust manifold have much or any oil in it?

2Reflexes said:

Regarding valve guides/seals, I seem to see conflicting opinions on whether their failure would cause noticeable problems. I get smoke on start-up, under acceleration and then the oil found in the exhaust manifold. And the smoke is oil; I can tell by the smell and color that it is not fuel related.

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The upside to a turbo'd engine, is that the pressure on the intake side AND the exhaust side pretty much keeps oil from passing the guides & seals. Sure, there would be extremes where the oil leak would be excessive enough. In your case, I think the turbo exhaust side oil seal(s) is the source of your leak.

Smoke on startup could indicate valve stem seals.

I would make sure there is no/minimal oil in the exhaust manifold.

Another thought just occurred to me....
If you clean up the turbo, inside and out, and reinstall it, but leave the turbo outlet open, and start the engine. Would you see enough oil leaking out the outlet flange to trace where it came from?

Tony

TonyJetta said:

Yes...and it pretty much points to the turbo oil seals. Did the exhaust manifold have much or any oil in it?

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Yes, there was oil in the exhaust manifold up to the ports of cylinder 1 and 2, that is why I am not sure which way to go. The turbo is brand new, so this also adds to my confusion. If only there was a way to test the seals...

Since you put in the engine, have you given it some good hard runs? Sometimes with sitting and light running, rings get sticky and you get "wet stacking" (old ship engineer parlance). Some good hard runs can often loosen up the rings and then they seal better. Old engines idling often slobber.

2Reflexes said:

Yes, there was oil in the exhaust manifold up to the ports of cylinder 1 and 2, that is why I am not sure which way to go. The turbo is brand new, so this also adds to my confusion. If only there was a way to test the seals...

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My bet is leaky oil rings or valve guides/seals on 1 and 2 from what you say now. I still wouldn't tear into it for only 1qt/1000 miles if it's running OK. You may go to a lot of expense and still use 1qt/2000 miles. Most diesels will use more oil than gassers do.

This Caddy has been sitting quite a bit, so I think I am going to drive it for a good few weeks and see if things get better.

Since I just got this thing put together not too long ago, I want to drive it and not tear it down again. I feel a lot better about the condition after doing a compression test, so I guess I'll have to put up with some oil patches unless more driving helps it out.

Maybe I'll tear into it over the winter, but now is prime driving weather! Thanks for all of your advice, I'll report back what I find out.

Did you sort out your oil leak in the exhaust manifold?
have same problem and I don't want to remove the head..
I have already replaced valve stem seals, please answer
bitzy is online now

The OP hasn’t logged on since 2015 so I doubt your gonna find that answer.

Leakdown test for sure. seems like some worn out valve guide seals and possibly the valve guides. that will require pulling the head. Pull the valve cover off and do a leak test and spray some soapy water on the valve seals and see of they leak. Ofcourse that means a oil change too, if you put too much soapy water on it, i plugged the oil drail and sucked up the rest but oil is cheep.

valve seals are new, compresion test is ok, cylinder 1- 26 cylinder 2- 26 cylinder 3- 27
cylinder 4 - 27,

WHAT THE HECK, is that in BAR? If it is, thats really LOW, if thats PSI, thats FUBAR. ALso Bitzy, this thread is EVERY old and it would be best if you started a new thread. you should have closer to 500PSI on compression tests vs 400. but 400 is not a sure sign of blowby on the rings. a leak down test will revile more.

That pressure is good enough and those are reasonably close enough. Would be good to know how many km's are on this engine though.

Might be more advantageous to post in a forum with a closer alternative to the BPW engine code, late Mk4 or MkV TDI or better yet in the B5.5 with BEW or the MkV with a BRM maybe. The Passat with longitudinal mounting will be the closest to your A4.

Steve