Any one used Motorkote

TDIx2 · Oct 9, 2007

I have used this Motorkote in non TDI engines in the past and currently in my S-10. Has anyone used this product in their TDI engine?

http://www.motorkote.com/OnlineDemoMotorkote/

wjdell · Oct 9, 2007

You are asking this question on the wrong forum you will get no positive responses here. Here, all that is all additives are considered snake oil

mrGutWrench · Oct 9, 2007

TDIx2 said:
I have used this Motorkote in non TDI engines in the past and currently in my S-10. Has anyone used this product in their TDI engine?
http://www.motorkote.com/OnlineDemoMotorkote/

__. Modern engine oils contain chemical additive components - they work by chemical (and or metalurgical) action. Putting some other aftermarket additive in your oil may cause a chemical reaction that *reduces* the activity of the "good things" in the oil. The synthetic oils that our TDI's use don't need "extra stuff" thrown in. I'd *NEVER* use this stuff in my engine. (Not to mention the deal that they want the price that you originally paid for your oil in addition to "improve" it.) Possible engine damage, money wasted. No sale here.

TwoFuel · Oct 9, 2007

Me too Motorkote wondering

I would like to know what the mysterious ingredient is in 505.01 is. It is getting to be a PITA finding 5w40 oil for my PD TDI's. I know it is avail. online, but the shipping charges take a bite. I know the latest spec covers 505.01, but now it is a 30w oil. I am old skool...even with all the modern electronic advantages in todays diesels, underneath it all, you still have the same basic diesel components, crank, rods, pistons... cam. I feel better with 40w oil dampening all of these components in my vehicles.
I have given Motorkote a thought or two... seems like it would provide all the lube the PD TDI camshaft needs, so we could go with diesel oil, (Rotella, Delvac), off the shelf at our local parts house.
I am a little suspicious of oil additives, but the Motorkote seems like it might provide just the right amount of slippery a PD cam needs.
Now if we could just get somebody to try it.

dhdenney · Oct 9, 2007

I'm with these guys, don't put additives in your synthetics. That being said, they always have a booth at the farm and machinery show in Louisville, KY. Their little demonstration looks legit but there's still a part of me that doesn't buy it.

dhdenney · Oct 9, 2007

I just watched the video and that's the same demo they run at the show I was talking about. Never really occurred to me before but by their claim of adherence, you would only have to run this in the engine for a short time. The brake cleaner is applied almost immediately after the addition of the Motorkote. On that assumption alone, you would only have to add the stuff right before an oil change, run the engine for 15 mins and drain it out. However, what they don't do is stop the bearing machine, clean the parts with brake cleaner, allow sufficient evap time, then fire it back up. I wonder how that would change the outcome?

TDIx2 · Oct 9, 2007

wjdell said:
You are asking this question on the wrong forum you will get no positive responses here. Here, all that is all additives are considered snake oil

Don't oil companys add their own "additives" to thier products to meet specific specs. Example would be products put into a synthetic oil to make it a 505.01 approved oil.

I'm not a chemical engineer nor a sales agent for anyone but do think about the difference between one oil to the next like, M1 and M1 extended interval, got to be additives eh? What makes those additives better then others? http://www.motorkote.com/demo/

mrGutWrench · Oct 9, 2007

TDIx2 said:
(snip) What makes those additives better then others?

__. Aside from the fact that the oil companies have huge scientific laboratories to determine the best performance in their oils, those additives are *already* in the oil. Maybe you could come up with SUPER-OIL if you could convince Mobil to sell you base stocks so that you could add wonderful-snake-oil to it, but that isn't going to happen. But if you add some stuff off the street and it reacts with the additives in the oil that the manufacturer put there, you're going to be in a world of hurt. Not worth the risk.

tditom · Oct 9, 2007

TDIx2 said:
...I'm not a chemical engineer nor a sales agent for anyone but do think about the difference between one oil to the next like, M1 and M1 extended interval, got to be additives eh? What makes those additives better then others? http://www.motorkote.com/demo/

me either.

Don't bother asking anyone on an internet forum how to design a motor oil. Please don't experiment on your tdi's. You'll create alot of questions from prospective buyers should you ever choose to put them up for sale here.

you have 2 PD's, so order a couple 1 liter cases or 5 liter bottles at a time to decrease the shipping costs.

TDIx2 · Oct 9, 2007

Not asking how to design oil... I have never put an additive in my VW's or TDI oil... Just asked if anyone has used this product in a TDI and if they had a comment.

Sorry guys not looking for a internet argument on oil or additives. Just wanted to see if anyone used this stuff or not. Case closed on my end, I'm not using an additive in my TDI oil.

BKmetz · Oct 9, 2007

For the 10 years that I've been hanging around here, no one has ever embraced oil additives. With all the owners with cars over 300,000 miles on synthetic oil with the correct diesel ratings, it's pretty much a given there is no need for any type of oil additive.

Now, you want to see responses, ask about fuel additives or Amsoil. There are volumes posted here on those subjects.

.

TwoFuel · Oct 9, 2007

Hey!

Sorry guys not looking for a internet argument on oil or additives. Just wanted to see if anyone used this stuff or not. Case closed on my end, I'm not using an additive in my TDI oil.[/quote]

Don't give up so easy! It was a good thought you had there.
I am willing to bet there's plenty of PD owners looking for a similar fix.
I like my PD's, but it is a PITA when it comes to the oil spec. crap.
Todays motor oils are only as good as the additives they put in them.
The 505.01 has some kind of miracle blend in it to lube the PD cams... so if we could find out, an additive like Motorkote would be the missing link to using an off the shelf diesel oil, owning these things would be that much better.
I just don't like being limited to a shrinking oil supply to keep the 40w oil.
Somebody reading these posts should try it, have it analyzed, and report back here, their findings.
Man, this is going to be great!

thermopylaetech · Oct 9, 2007

The magic ingredient in 505.01 oil is the high pressure antishear compounds. Since these are mechanical pumps you need to generate the pressure from the rotating cam lobe, think 20k psi at the point of contact. Off the shelf "diesel" oil is not designed to withstand that amount of point loading and the result is a breakdown of the oil film hence cam lobe and injector tappet failure.

Synthetics offer vastly enhanced properties that you cannot just add to a conventional oil. Stick with what you know works.

TwoFuel · Oct 9, 2007

thermopylaetech said:
The magic ingredient in 505.01 oil is the high pressure antishear compounds.

Well, yeah, but I think Motorkote is a high pressure antishear compound.

Someone must try it.

ibanix · Oct 9, 2007

The only additive I've ever used is SeaFoam. Love that stuff. Have seen it smooth out rough idles and increase fuel economy (marginally) after a treatment.

Disclaimer: Above results on gasser cars/motorcycles

thermopylaetech · Oct 9, 2007

TwoFuel said:
thermopylaetech said:

The magic ingredient in 505.01 oil is the high pressure antishear compounds.

Well, yeah, but I think Motorkote is a high pressure antishear compound.

Someone must try it.

Click to expand...

Well thats good then. Let me know how it turns out if it is not. The loading that happpens with a PD cam system is huge, the costs are very high for repair and frankly the cost benefit does not exsist.

If you ask me the only thing we should be coating the inside of an engine with is low friction ceramic or polymer to speed oil flow and thats about it. And that should only applied to the non-moving surfaces.

tditom · Oct 9, 2007

TwoFuel said:
...I like my PD's, but it is a PITA when it comes to the oil spec. crap....
Somebody reading these posts should try it, have it analyzed, and report back here, their findings.
Man, this is going to be great!

1. You need to replace your oil every 10K mi- how is this such a PITA? It's not like you need to do it every other month!
2. Are you the "somebody" who is voluteering to use this in your car? How will you monitor the wear on the motor?

wjdell · Oct 9, 2007

Do two UOA's - then try your additive. But if its high in heavy metals then you will be gumming up your emissions system. Some Moly and boron is OK, Mobil is using it in ESP 507.

mrGutWrench · Oct 9, 2007

tditom said:
1. You need to replace your oil every 10K mi- (snip)

__. I'm getting a feeling about this stuff. You take $17/gallon oil and add $16 per treatment additive because it's too expensive to spend $24 on oil? (And that's if you say that it will make Rotella into a wonder oil ...)

Dimitri16V · Oct 9, 2007

thermopylaetech said:
The magic ingredient in 505.01 oil is the high pressure antishear compounds. Since these are mechanical pumps you need to generate the pressure from the rotating cam lobe, think 20k psi at the point of contact. Off the shelf "diesel" oil is not designed to withstand that amount of point loading and the result is a breakdown of the oil film hence cam lobe and injector tappet failure.

Synthetics offer vastly enhanced properties that you cannot just add to a conventional oil. Stick with what you know works.

the problem with this theory is the failed PDs we have seen have trashed VALVE lifters, the injector lobe assembly is just fine.
Most 505.01 are not even true sysnthetics and their additive package is nothing to brag about.

OilGuy · Oct 9, 2007

I'm waiting for that huge picture of the guy holding the man-eating snake

I've heard that Coca-Cola produces some pretty impressive results in the "I saw it with my own eyes" load-it-up-with-weights-till-it-siezes tester (which we all know relates to exactly the same contact geometries and conditions inside our engines) Anyone else aware of the Coke demo?

Some believers aren't aware that great performance with one property often hides a subpar area of performance elsewhere; and oil has to do many different jobs at once.

Notice that additive manufacturers don't test their product performance against OEM specs after it has been combined with an oil that is approved against OEM specs (before it was mixed with mystery additives).

If you honestly think the more-additives-is-better companies know more about oil than the engine designers and the oil manufacturers they work with - go for it!

TwoFuel · Oct 9, 2007

Not being able to get the oil at the local parts store makes it a pain for me.
Just bugs me.
Oh, and no way am I trying it first...I said it bugs me, I'm not crazy.
I will buy a bottle of Motorkote for you if you will put it in your car and let us know how you make out.

40X40 · Oct 9, 2007

If you buy the right oil, it will have the correct additive package right from the get-go.

You can go to your local VW dealer and get the proper oil. If that is too much trouble to do every 10,000 miles, then buy a case or two and then you won't have to go back for years.

Tdiparts and other vendors can do you a good deal on quantities and will deliver to a GTG. Out of state ordering can avoid sales tax and that will sometimes cover the shipping (or major parts of it.).

Don't forget to order oil,air,cabin,and fuel filters, drain plugs, trim tools and other neat to have stuff.

Or there is always a bus pass...

Bill

mrGutWrench · Oct 10, 2007

Dimitri16V said:
the problem with this theory is the failed PDs we have seen have trashed VALVE lifters, the injector lobe assembly is just fine.
Most 505.01 are not even true sysnthetics and their additive package is nothing to brag about.

__. Yeah, Dim, and the theory has always been that the problem goes back to the fact that -- to get the injector lobe in there -- VW had to reduce the width of the valve/cam lobe. These are significantly narrower than the ones on the ALH (and earlier) VW diesels. All the force in lifting that valve is being concentrated on a smaller area on the lifter (and the cam, too, for that matter). So the problem isn't the injector lobe, it's the fact that the injector lobe is *there*, crowding the space that the valve train needs.

__. And I agree that 505.01 oils don't look like much to me, but the one thing that they do is to cover that severe-localized-compression-loading regime. And I'm guessing that good-quality, diesel rated synthetic oils (Delvac/Turbo Truck Diesel, etc.) will be just fine. The problem is that there's pretty good info that using 505.01 will protect your engine reasonably well. I don't mind anyone experimenting with his own engine, but to really come up with results, you'd need to have a comprehensively managed test fleet with proper analysis at the end of the test period. At least that's the only thing that would make me feel comfortable (if I needed 505.01 oil, that is). And I think that it's most unfair for anyone to look at the numbers on an oil analysis and recommend to a newbie that he run anything but 505.01 -- if you wanna gamble fine, but leading someone into gambling when you don't really know where you're leading them is really unfair.

__. As I've said before; there seem to be three kinds of oils out there:

1) Oils that are recognized to protect the engine (i.e. 505.01),
2) Oils that will protect the engine just fine (but aren't proven to do so), and
3) Oils that won't protect the engine.

__. The problem is that none of us has the knowledge and resources to distinguish between 2) and 3). We can try, but we're really just guessing. So, you can take a stab in the dark and hope (and risk major engine damage), or follow the recommendation. I know which *I'd* do, if I had an engine that needed 505.01.

dhdenney · Oct 10, 2007

India Pale Ale! I love it!

dhdenney · Oct 10, 2007

Hey something that dawned on me and I apologize if this is covered somewhere....... we know the new 2.0 TDI is common rail. How does that change the cam design? Do we go back to the design of yesteryear?

Dimitri16V · Oct 10, 2007

dhdenney said:
Hey something that dawned on me and I apologize if this is covered somewhere....... we know the new 2.0 TDI is common rail. How does that change the cam design? Do we go back to the design of yesteryear?

I believe the 2.0 will have 16V so the narrow cam lobes will still be there unless it's a DOHC.

dhdenney · Oct 10, 2007

Dimitri16V said:
I believe the 2.0 will have 16V so the narrow cam lobes will still be there unless it's a DOHC.

Oh cool. Two cams would possibly take some of the loading off but timing belt would probably be a whole new can of worms. I'd say it's a single cam.

wjdell · Oct 10, 2007

Two cams to replace instead of one - buy stock in VW now.

Dimitri16V · Oct 11, 2007

wjdell said:
Two cams to replace instead of one - buy stock in VW now.

hmm, did MB had some NA 4 valve diesel engines in the 90s ?
dhdenney, changing the T-belt on a DHOC engine should not be any more difficult than it is on a PD now. It also depends whether the cams are driven with a chain like the gas engines or have separate sprockets ( which would mean more rollers )

Any one used Motorkote

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