brake upgrade - 1.8t/vr6-3/2/g-r32

It is time for a brake overhaul!
I have found a really good deal (I feel) on an upgrade.
I just need to decide how big to go, and I would like some help picking.
The upgrade will include front and rear.
Currently -
The Front brakes are 280mm x 22mm (11.0" x .87") Vented Rotor w/1 piston calipers
The Rear brakes are 232mm x 9mm (9.1" x .35") Solid Rotor
The options -
1.8t/vr6 -
The Front brakes are 288mm x 25mm (11.3" x .98") Vented Rotor w/1 piston calipers
The Rear brakes are 232mm x 9mm (9.1" x .35") Solid Rotor
3/2/g -
The Front brakes are 312mm x 25mm (12.3" x .98") Vented Rotors w/1 piston calipers
The Rear brakes are 256mm x 22mm (10.1" x .87") Vented Rotors
r32 -
The Front brakes are 334mm x 32mm (13.15" x 1.26") Vented 2-piece Rotors w/2 piston Blue calipers
The Rear brakes are 256mm x 22mm (10.1" x .87") Vented Rotors
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Now I know that I will need larger wheels, etc. But I am willing to deal with that for shorter stopping distance.
What I am really trying to get is talked out of the r32 brakes, as they are the most$$$ haha
To everyone who has upgraded your brakes, all info is appreciated!

And to clarify I have no 'GO' mods, and drive almost exclusively on the highway.

Check vwvortex for the size wheels you will have to run for those brake up grades.

I thought I saw a comparison of the R32 brakes vs 312's and the R32 only shined with repeated hard stops. IOW, if you need to panic brake from 70-10 or so on the freeway, R32's offer no advantage other than being blue LOL.

I thought I had read that somewhere as well, about the r32 only benefiting repeated hard braking. I just can't find that anywhere to see if it is just an 'epinion' or if the person had some basis for that claim

If you need to panic stop once from 70MPH-0MPH no brake upgrade will make that shorter. The stock TDI brakes are plenty strong enough to make the ABS come on at high speeds if you just press the pedal hard enough.

The only thing that bigger brakes will get you is repeated hard stops with less brake fade. I upgraded to 312mm brakes and really wouldn't recommend it unless you plan on taking your VW to the track or if you drive crazy on the street...

But, to answer some other questions, 312mm brakes will fit under any 16" OEM VW wheel except the BBS RX(?) wheels that the Jetta Wolfsburgs got. 288mm brakes will obviously fit any 16" wheel, but I'm not sure about 15" wheels. R32 brakes require 17" wheels.

The only difference between the 312mm fronts and the 288mm fronts are the caliper carriers and rotors. Calipers and pads are the same, so that makes it easy if you can find the 1.8T/VR6 knuckles. All you need to do then is find the proper carriers and buy some rotors.

Here's a DIY link I made quite a few years back:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=112398

The R32 brakes look and work great! The downside is weight, cost and the requirement to run 17 inch or larger wheels.
And one other thing - you have to find a spare that will fit over the brakes. On an actual R32 this means an 18 inch donut spare which only clears the rear brakes. You likely have room for a full size spare(real R32 doesn't) but it still needs a large wheel.

Yeah.. that's true. The stock spare won't fit over the 312mm iirc. I got a flat tire and I would put the spare on the rear and move that good rear wheel to the front. There's many ways to get around thing...

If you want shorter stopping distance, then the upgrade for you is STICKIER TIRES, not brakes.

Why? Well, think about it: the distance your car takes to stop depends on the force exerted by the road on the car. More precisely, the road exerts a frictional force on the tires, which transfer the force to the brake disks, which exert a frictional force on the brake pads, which transfer the force to the rest of the car.

So, it seems reasonable to think that if you increase the frictional force on the brakes, you'll decrease the stopping distance, right? Right! The harder you press on the brake pedal, the shorter your stopping distance. However, there's a catch: you can't just keep increasing the force forever; sooner or later you'll lock the brakes. At that point, you can keep increasing the pressure on the calipers all you want, but the friction force won't change. So if the stock brakes are capable of being locked, then upgrading doesn't do any good in this regard.

But then, if big brakes can't make you stop shorter, what can? The answer is the other friction interface: the one between the ground and the tires. Increasing friction here -- i.e., getting stickier tires -- means the tire can transfer more force before sliding, which means that the brakes can then be applied harder (before locking) to match. More force gets transferred, and the car stops shorter!

Finally, one question remains to be answered: if big brakes don't necessarily help, why do sports cars have them? That's because all that friction generates heat, which builds up in the brakes. Brake pads and brake fluid only work below a certain temperature; if they get too hot then the pads start melting and/or off-gassing and the fluid boils (becoming compressible). Bigger brakes have more mass, allowing them to absorb more heat before failing -- in other words, they increase the number of hard stops in a row you can make. Otherwise, they have no advantage whatsoever over the smallest set of brakes that's capable of locking the wheels of the car!

I agree with the others that a braking upgrade really isn't going to help improve your stopping distance.

I went with the 312 front/256 rears mostly because they look pretty under my 17" rims.

Downside was I had to go to a 16" spare tire.

Now that I've finished that treatise on brake theory, I will also say that sometimes it does make sense to upgrade the brakes on these cars. I, for example, am upgrading mine because I actually drive hard enough to have experienced brake fade on several occasions. But even then, I'm only going one size up for now (to 11.3"). I'll test that setup and then only keep going bigger as long as I still have problems.

For you, on the other hand, bigger brakes almost certainly won't do any good -- especially if you do mostly highway driving (as opposed to racing or "twisty road" driving) as you say. Get some nice tires and call it done.

Incidentally, would you mind sharing that really good deal you found? I've got the calipers/carriers/spindles for my 1.8T conversion, but I still need pads and rotors...

keep in mind the weight of the components.

Im all for upgrading brakes!! the real way like your talking about but the VR6 set up is heavier and the same size, front brakes slightly bigger

R32 and audi TT are bigger but heavier.

I went the cheap route. upgrading to a good german rotor and aussie pads

I drive the eastern coast and drive on turnpikes and interstates lots of hard braking. no issues.

good tires and suspension make a big difference also, do not over look that!!

tdi's have lousy bushings shocks and springs, esp. with high miles.


good luck

Another contributing factor is pads... All friction materials are a balance of friction rating, longevity, heat resistance (fade), hot/cold performance, etc. Some pads significantly outperform others in specific areas such as fade or wear. Run a pad that performs well in the area you're most concerned with. A GG rated, high friction, medium fade resistance and short wearing pad may offer good one-time stopping but don't brake your way down a mountain w/them. Chose a pad with characteristics that match your driving style. It can make a big difference.

R32s use a 2-piston caliper. I have no idea if the "normal" FN 3 single piston vr6/1.8t caliper would fit on the carrier required for the 334mm rotors.

As someone stated above, you know you are going to have to change your spindles do do ANY of these upgrades, right? Along with spindles comes new calipers and carriers...

I've got the 312/256mm combo also, but they went on at the same time as some super sticky rubber. Night and day from the old tires/old brakes. The one thing I notice is that they take a split second to bit in the wet, which is a bit disconcerting the first time it happens, or if you've forgotten 'cause it's been dry for a bit...

Good luck with your upgrade!
-Chris

I have also upgraded from the stock TDI front brakes to the TT 312mm setup, I have experienced brake fade with Red Box pads, ATE super blue, brembo rotors running the stock setup with stainless lines. With the TT 312mm front setup, ATE rotors, and Red box pads I haven't had fading issues and other than what Chris said above in the rain.... they bite pretty hard... In comparison I am happy with the upgrade and don't foresee the need to upgrade the rears since I like cheap rotors... Tires were never an issue, rotor mass/surface area and pad size was.