Why all these big vehicles?

vwdsmguy

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When we are supposed to be using less fuel [less CO2], It seems that vehicle mfgs. only want to sell pickups and SUVs. Look at the TV adds - low fuel milage stuff and people are buying it. Its like America doesn't care !!! Do they all believe trump - climate change is not happening? I guess what we need are fuel prices at $5., then watch all those gas hog owners squirm. Car mfgs aren't producing economy cars much anymore.
 
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jason_

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I believe manufactures epa mpg is based as a whole from all types of their product.

Except vw. I think part of their settlement was to push a certain amount of electric, but they tried cheating the system twice.
Haha.


Ol' Marty knew what he was running away from...

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turbobrick240

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Americans have always loved ginormous cruisers. It's only when fuel prices spike that reality settles in.
 

Lightflyer1

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I am in Texas. It seems no one down here can do without a huge truck. Even if it is to just drive down the street a few blocks alone. I have a big old truck, but it sits most of the time parked while my tdi Beetle racks up the miles. I only take it out when needed. 1982 F150 with a 300ci inline 6 cylinder. It is fuel efficient only because it is hardly ever used.
 

Jetta SS

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I also own a 1981 Lincoln Mark VI. There is something to be said about a large car that floats and is smooth and plush. I get it anyway. I'm thinking trucks are the new American car since these are gone.
 

greenskeeper

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I've got 2 crew cab 4x4 7.3 PSD trucks, neither sees more than 5k miles a year.

Probably using less fuel than most TDIers on an annual basis.....HA!
 

PB_NB

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With our ridiculous fuel prices at about $5.00 a gallon, there are still a ton of SUV's and pick-up trucks running around.

We have been tricked into buying our fuel in Litres so it looks like we are paying less than our southern neighbours. Pretty soon we will be buying our fuel by the eye dropper.

And we are still listed as a country that believes global warming is real ;)

I guess the governments goal is to tax so much that only the rich can afford to "fill'er up!"
 

Lightflyer1

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The government's goal is just to tax you as much as they can. They pretty much don't care about anything else as long as they can do that and you pay.
 

Powder Hound

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Americans enjoy:

1) "Low" tax rates
2) Sufficient material wealth
3) Easy credit
4) Envy, or at least a desire to keep up with the neighbors

Other countries enjoy:
1) Sky-<bleep>ing-high tax rates
2) Somewhat less material wealth
3) Stickier credit processes
4) Crab mentality*
5) Suffocating group-think

Americans like large behemoth cars and trucks due to being human. Other places don't have them not because they don't want them, but several factors combine to make it much more difficult.

And let's not forget the neighborhood's envy. I knew a woman who was working as a contractor for a bank in Switzerland. Because she wore more than one outfit to work in a week, she was accused of "conspicuous consumption." I think if someone told me something like that I'd tell them to put it on a mop handle and sit on it until the whole handle disappeared up their anus.

Other people in other places would love large American vehicles. Because they can't, they stick their noses in the air and mutter pejorative invectives in our direction. Here, my neighbors might ask me why I still drive a 20 year old car, but instead they comment on how great the car looks for its age. (Well, that was before the ghetto fender I had to install.)

Anyway, the end of the story is that America is the envy of the world. Even the naysayers would come here in a heartbeat if only they could.

Cheers,

PH


* The crab mentality comes into focus if you've ever been crabbing without a crab specific trap and a very deep bucket. If you catch one crab, you need a lid on the bucket. But once you catch the second crab, you no longer need a lid. The crabs lock each other up and no one gets out of the bucket.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Well it sure is a good thing we didn't outlaw a bunch of good 50 MPG cars. Oh, wait.... :rolleyes:

But soon you can buy a new F250 with a 7.3L pushrod iron block gasoline V8! Because the 6.2L and 6.8L they had just wasn't quite enough.

In other news: the Chevy Volt's production has ended. The Ford C-max production has ended.

Tesla is switching to online sales only, in yet another effort to slow down the money flow going the wrong way (there will be "galleries" here and there, however).

We are doomed, LOL.... But hey gas is cheap!

On a somewhat brighter side: even though the Chevy Cruze is also going away, the Equinox and its stablemate Terrain, are smaller than the previous versions, and will for the time still retain a diesel engine option, although it remains to be seen how long they'll keep that on the option sheet with a slow take rate and cheap gasoline.
 
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tikal

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Hey, OH what about the Ford Transit Connect Diesel. Will it be available in a few years perhaps or is it looking like the Mazda diesel story?
 

tikal

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Powder Hound, I have lived in other countries (including other industrialized and 'civilized' countries) and I did not experience the 'crab mentality' you are talking about. My experience of course for what it is worth.

Based on my experience living and traveling in various places of the world I do not see that a specific country population is more independent thinker than others.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I stand my my prediction that electric vehicle sales have peaked. Most of the early adopters and people whose vehicle needs are favorable to the limits of an electric vehicle have gotten their cars. Cheap fuel and disappearing tax credits are making electric an uneconomical choice. People who care about the environment like to skew the data to make electrics look more environmentally friendly than they are, but in the long run most consumers don't make buying decisions based on the environment. That's pretty clear. If they did a lot more people would drive cars instead of trucks and SUVs.

I haven't lived overseas, but have spent periods of time in many countries, both developing and developed. Although cultural norms and preferences obviously vary, there are some pretty desirable places to live outside the US. I like it here, in no small part, because it's home and it's where my family is. But there are other places that are comparable in most ways, and better in some. Depends on what you like.
 

truman

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Proposal in MO to raise licensing fees for cars that average over 29mpg- guzzlers retain their current low rate. Much loved trucks obviously get a pass.
 

Tdijarhead

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That's probably an effort to curb the freeloading all electric crowd and make them pay at least something. At $1 per gallon tax (PA diesel) that's several hundred dollars per year for me.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
... People who care about the environment like to skew the data to make electrics look more environmentally friendly than they are, but in the long run most consumers don't make buying decisions based on the environment. That's pretty clear. If they did a lot more people would drive cars instead of trucks and SUVs.

.
This is exactly how I feel too.

And Tikal, yes, a diesel Transit Connect is supposed to be here at some point, but they've already axed the Fiesta, the Focus and Fusion will be gone soon, so taking a step forward after three steps backward isn't going to curb CO2 production. Besides, the diesel TC will be: A: an uber expensive option, B: limited availability, and C: like all the rest, 2-pedal only. Not to mention D: the fact that the TC has been enjoyed with a diesel and a manual in literally every other market, in most markets ONLY that way, since it has been in production.
 

tikal

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I stand my my prediction that electric vehicle sales have peaked. Most of the early adopters and people whose vehicle needs are favorable to the limits of an electric vehicle have gotten their cars. Cheap fuel and disappearing tax credits are making electric an uneconomical choice. People who care about the environment like to skew the data to make electrics look more environmentally friendly than they are, but in the long run most consumers don't make buying decisions based on the environment. That's pretty clear. If they did a lot more people would drive cars instead of trucks and SUVs.

I haven't lived overseas, but have spent periods of time in many countries, both developing and developed. Although cultural norms and preferences obviously vary, there are some pretty desirable places to live outside the US. I like it here, in no small part, because it's home and it's where my family is. But there are other places that are comparable in most ways, and better in some. Depends on what you like.
I like your comment about living in the US vs overseas. Thank you.

Regarding electrical cars I agree that since American prefer larger vehicles is going to take fairly longer for an electrical SUV and/or truck to become even remotely popular, meaning affordable. From a cost/benefits equation and the laws of physics the larger the vehicle becomes the more a diesel option makes sense. Ok the price of gasoline being so low does not help the 'diesel cause' in general, I agree too.
 

tikal

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This is exactly how I feel too.

And Tikal, yes, a diesel Transit Connect is supposed to be here at some point, but they've already axed the Fiesta, the Focus and Fusion will be gone soon, so taking a step forward after three steps backward isn't going to curb CO2 production. Besides, the diesel TC will be: A: an uber expensive option, B: limited availability, and C: like all the rest, 2-pedal only. Not to mention D: the fact that the TC has been enjoyed with a diesel and a manual in literally every other market, in most markets ONLY that way, since it has been in production.
Thanks Brian. No hurry. I was curious about your view. Technically it can be considered a 'non-car' and maybe Ford will not ax it.
 

turbobrick240

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I stand my my prediction that electric vehicle sales have peaked. Most of the early adopters and people whose vehicle needs are favorable to the limits of an electric vehicle have gotten their cars. Cheap fuel and disappearing tax credits are making electric an uneconomical choice. People who care about the environment like to skew the data to make electrics look more environmentally friendly than they are, but in the long run most consumers don't make buying decisions based on the environment. That's pretty clear. If they did a lot more people would drive cars instead of trucks and SUVs.
I don't think there is a snowballs chance that EV sales have peaked anywhere. I'll stand by that too :) . I hope caring about the environment hasn't become something undesirable. The folks who truly care aren't interested in skewing numbers, but rather getting to the truth and making improvements. As an early adopter of photovoltaics, you're probably amongst those hippy pinko Earth lovers. :D

I can't help but think of the scene in Idiocracy where Beef Supreme can't fit his monster truck through the arena entrance when looking at current vehicular trends here. Funny and disturbing at the same time.

https://youtu.be/cLts-sXlLEM
 
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Lightflyer1

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I saw a Nissan Leaf for sale on Craigslist and thought I might look into one for work commuting. Went to see it and the car only has 13k miles on it and basically pretty brand new looking. I liked it.

https://austin.craigslist.org/cto/d/cedar-park-2011-nissan-leaf-13k-miles/6830282138.html

Till I read up on them and found the dealer is the only place to get a battery and they are $8500. This one has a spent battery at only 5 bars and can't really drive anywhere. At nearly $33k new and now worthless for all intents and purposes, not much of a bargain there. You probably can't even give the car away. More than likely headed for the crusher and recycled. We have a long, long way to go before these kinds of cars enter the mainstream.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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At nearly $33k new and now worthless for all intents and purposes, not much of a bargain there. You probably can't even give the car away. More than likely headed for the crusher and recycled.
Now that's environmentally friendly. :rolleyes:
 

hskrdu

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It seems that vehicle mfgs. only want to sell pickups and SUVs.
Car makers want to sell cars. They produce cars based largely on the marketplace, in response to consumer demand. The second major factor in the type of vehicles that carmakers produce are regulatory constraints and restraints (of all sorts). These regulations impact, in part, what is produced and what is available to the marketplace. Why do we get lots of pickups and SUV's? Because the marketplace supports it though demand. Why aren't we currently getting new fuel efficient diesel passenger vehicles from VW? In part, due to highly restrictive regulatory policy (along with VW's mishandling of an uneven playing field).

Carmakers also would like to sell vehicles which maximize profits (which despite the modern American understanding, is a good thing), and when able, will focus on the production of profitable vehicles- but this is only possible where the market supports it, unless regulations enhance the playing field (which is how the government plays favorites with the marketplace). Do manufacturers want to sell more SUV's? Sure, if they also are more profitable, but if they don't sell, that profit is unrealized, and after retooling, the manufacturer returns to making what the marketplace supports.


I guess what we need are fuel prices at $5., then watch all those gas hog owners squirm. Car mfgs aren't producing economy cars much anymore.
Yes, we could punish the owners of vehicles which aren't fuel efficient by raising fuel prices. Doing so would reveal quite a bit about our understanding of these issues and our world view. Among a myriad of other things, it would reveal that we believe some segments of the marketplace should be "punished" or given a disincentive to ownership based on fuel economy. In turn, our understanding would be that fuel economy among private vehicle ownership is of such importance that it merits influence through taxation, industry penalties, or additional regulation. Next, we would have to believe that disincentives to ownership would be effective. Lastly (since I won't try to be comprehensive in this space), we would have to believe that the numerous other impacts of disincentives through high fuel costs would have either no other ill effects, or that those consequences would be acceptable. I oppose every one of these beliefs, in part because they are based on a misderstanding of how the marketplace works best, and how to best go about maximizing consumer interest in vehicles that demonstrate higher fuel economy.

It's important to note that the US has, through a variety of means, and for many years, influenced the marketplace and attempted to get consumers to purchase vehicles with higher FE, or attempted to have manufacturers produce vehicles with higher FE- regardless of whether the consumer has much interest in them, and regardless of the impact of those vehicles on total energy consumption.

As an aside, as Brian said:
Well it sure is a good thing we didn't outlaw a bunch of good 50 MPG cars. Oh, wait....
When we create an uneven playing field to reward or punish technology / fuel type / lifestyle, we may incur countless unintended consequences which move us further away from the initial goal. It's perhaps not wise to punish others for their "big" vehicles unless you're willing and eager to let them punish you for whatever they find in your style they deem to be a waste, framed in whatever world view they hold.
 

Tdijarhead

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hskrdu, very well said. Unintended consequences happen whenever rules, regulations or even events happen. Sometimes they can be minimumized and sometimes not, often one outcome is expected and in fact the exact opposite happens.

Americans for whatever reason love big cars/trucks/suv’s. Maybe it’s because we live in a big (geographical) area not a small country that has 6 to 8 neighbor nations that border it. Maybe it’s because we think differently than others in different countries.

Maybe it’s just because ..we can. I for my part like 50 mpg but I also have a couple of bigger vehicles for when needed because the Golf is small.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I live in one of the more congested parts of the US with old, small roads and trucks are everywhere. Kind of a mystery to me.

I've yet to feel any need for a truck. I have a friend with one which I've taken advantage very occasionally. Almost never. If I have something big I need to get to the house I have it delivered. Makes more sense to me than paying to have a truck sit around 99% of the time.

Right now it's snowing and I'm going out. OMG I don't have 4WD!!! Snow tires work fine.
 

Oberkanone

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When we are supposed to be using less fuel [less CO2], It seems that vehicle mfgs. only want to sell pickups and SUVs. Look at the TV adds - low fuel milage stuff and people are buying it. Its like America doesn't care !!! Do they all believe trump - climate change is not happening? I guess what we need are fuel prices at $5., then watch all those gas hog owners squirm. Car mfgs aren't producing economy cars much anymore.
Selling price on larger vehicles is much higher. Higher selling price results in higher profit for manufacturers. No explanation required.

Why do so many people blame Trump for anything they disagree with. Individuals have the free will to make their own decisions. In the example of the larger vehicles with lower fuel efficiency this trend was in place long before the current president was elected.

Low fuel prices decrease the importance of fuel efficiency.
 
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