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VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old August 21st, 2009, 15:18   #136
Chris Bell
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In your other thread you were given the correct advice: check ground points before you touch the cluster.

You did check the fuses I assume?

If yours is an east coast car, your secondary cluster ground may look this. Clean and/or repair all 3 terminals.

The primary ground point is less likely to be the culprit but clean it also.
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Last edited by Chris Bell; August 22nd, 2009 at 09:11.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 15:46   #137
dieseljunkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bell
In your other thread you were given the correct advice: check ground points before you touch the cluster.

You did check the fuse I assume?

If yours is an east coast car, your secondary cluster ground may look this. Clean and/or repair all 3 terminals.

The primary ground point is less likely to be the culprit but clean it also.
I did check the fuse (fuse #3 per the owners manual) and it was ok. I will go clean those grounds first before doing anything else. Thanks for those links!
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Old August 21st, 2009, 19:09   #138
Chris Bell
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No, its fuses #21 & #16
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 06:54   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bell
No, its fuses #21 & #16
Thanks for the correction on the fuses, checked them and they are good. I put a test light on the cluster harness pins 13 and 3, 5 and got juice when the key is on so there is power going to the cluster. I cleaned the battery terminals and the grounds (under battery and on the transmission), took each lug off and wire brushed everything and put them back. None of the terminals were corroded. After all that the cluster is still dead except for the bottom row of color LEDs. Anything else I should check before condemning the cluster? I did get the tach needle and dial face off and nothing appears burned behind there. The Elmos chip is a 44 pin IC, I've read that's the regulator chip? With 44 pins I'd think it does more than just voltage regulation. Anyone have an internal schematic of the cluster by chance? I am on the lookout for a 96-97 Passat GLX cluster. I know you recommend the 5 spd version but will an auto one do? Thanks.

Last edited by dieseljunkie; August 23rd, 2009 at 08:31.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 07:12   #140
Chris Bell
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Also check harness pin 11 for 12V+.

Did you clean the 3 small grounds on the head?

Auto cluster is OK but looks funky with the PRNDL window.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 07:50   #141
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Just checked and there's 12V on pin 11. I looked on the head for the 3 grounds and the only thing with 3 wires on the head looks to me like 3 glow plugs on the coolant flange at the end of the head. That's not it right?

Last edited by dieseljunkie; August 23rd, 2009 at 08:34.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 07:54   #142
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The pics show them clearly.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 08:00   #143
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Can't see pics on the phone I'm on unfortunately. Where on the head?
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 08:06   #144
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Found it! It's on a bracket on the head and not on the head itself. I'll clean it now.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 08:28   #145
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Cleaned the 3 grounds on the head bracket but made no difference. Cluster still dead. With the 3 ground leads hanging, I measured from each lead to battery ground. The light brown/light green and dark brown/white wires were zero ohms but the dark brown/dark green wire was about 640K ohms. Don't know if this means anything or not. What do you think, Chris?
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 11:57   #146
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The brown/white is the cluster ground.

Your cluster is DOA.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 10:24   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bell
The brown/white is the cluster ground.

Your cluster is DOA.
Yeppers
But I have good news! I found a 96 Passat 5 spd VR6 cluster locally, picked it up at lunch just now, plugged it in and it works! The only thing the odometer is at 130k and the car should have about 145k on it per the previous owner. I have PO receipts from the VW dealer when it was last serviced and it was at 139k back in 9/08 a year ago and they drive about 6K a year. Is there a way to rig it up to roll the odo forward? What signals are needed? Road speed sensor only or is fuel consumption needed?

The yard I got the cluster from won't sell me just the MFA wiper stalk but the entire steering column for $50. How hard do you think it would be to sell off the parts that I won't need? How about a separate push button switch to cycle the MFA display? Is that possible?
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Old August 24th, 2009, 16:11   #148
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Hey that's a good find. What tools do you need to pull the MFA stalk? Where is the OAT sensor and oil temp sensor located?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yetimus
Salvage yard!!! I've been considering this mod for a while now and I decided to take a stroll through my local U-pull-it salvage yard to see if there may be any donor cars available. Sure enough, a 97 GLX was sitting there with MFA intact.

So I went home to get my tools - 30 minutes and $32 later, here's my loot!


If you can find a salvage yard donor car, you can snag the oil and air temp sensors as well as the MFA switch wiring saving you that much $$ and fabrication. Bonus - you can be a little heavy-handed in disassembling things on the donor so you'll know how it all comes apart once it's time to work on your own ride. Extra bonus - I even snagged a spare Relay 109 to keep in the console for a spare!

Oh yeah, I also snagged a used SGI-8 on ebay for $45. So I should only have about $90 in this when all is said and done. Huge thanks to Chris for all your work documenting this mod! Can't wait to get started!
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Old August 25th, 2009, 07:57   #149
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to pull the stalk switch you will need:
  1. phillips to remove the steering column surround
  2. 5mm allen wrench for the air bag removal
  3. 24mm for the steering wheel removal
  4. small flat screw driver for the three small screws that hold the switch in place
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Old September 9th, 2009, 05:00   #150
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One way to tell the OBD1 and ODB2 VR6 clusters apart when shopping for one if they are out of the car is the OBD2 cluster has the cut out for the 2nd plug. There are no pins in the 2nd plug hole but the cutout is there. the earlier Obd1 cluster does NOT have any cut out.

If the Cluster is still in the car its much easier to tell if the B4 is Obd1 or Obd2. All 1995 and earlier cars are Obd1 so look for a date on the car or look at the engine and hope that if the motor was ever swapped they did not swapping in a different generation motor. The OBD1 VR6 engines have metal valve covers and a less complicated throttle body(electrical switch wise).

OBD2 cars were 1996-1997 and have black plastic valve covers.

I think 1996 was a changeover year for OBD1-OBD2 and you should verify the cluster has two plug locations on it as this is the tell tale sign that the cluster is OBD2 and will make for an easier conversion.
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