Eurotrash Motorsports - Audi A4 OPRC / Targa TDi

Buddy of mine just picked this up so he can work on his Datsun 510 year-round - loves it; says it takes about ~15mins to get the shop (2-car, double doors, uninsulated) up to a very comfortable temp.
http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=45&id=25

Get out there!

Buddy of mine just picked this up so he can work on his Datsun 510 year-round - loves it; says it takes about ~15mins to get the shop (2-car, double doors, uninsulated) up to a very comfortable temp.
http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=45&id=25

Get out there!

ahhaha...honestly - there's zero point in working on the car in the winter - I've got no deadlines to chase...I built the last one on a schedule and wanted to drive it into a wall by the time I finished it...on top of that there's not much custom work to be done here - aside from the engine, the rest of the car will see very little action in the beginning - brakes, shocks and springs is about all I`m going to do. In fact if I was to build it with a 1.8T I could probably have the whole thing finished within 2 weeks

I`ll use the winter to accumulate some parts and maybe get the 1.8T to the shop for some machine work...I can put the engine together in a weekend - the rest is easy...

sigh....just couldn't keep my hands away - look what I found in the local junker:




before:




during:



after:




all done in 2.5 hours...it's scary how efficient we've gotten at destroying cars...of course the snow was a little annoying but oh well....I`ll try to get the tranny and engine mounted in the Audi by the end of this week to see how things will sit...stay tuned....

a few things I noticed already - the external water pump will be an issue with the engine mount...also the throttle pedal is different - has anybody been able to use a b5 DBW pedal with the AHU ECU?

spent a few minutes on the engine today - was a little eager to figure out the mounts...

looks like the driver side off my 2001 1.8T won't fit - the water pump is sort of in the way + the bolt holes are simply not there...the passenger side looks good but the turbo is currently in the way, which means I`ll have to take the intake and exhaust manifolds to verify that one...

went back to check some pics from the TB job I did on my mom's AEB...since it also has the external water pump I`m suspecting that the driver side mount will be usable but I don't have an extra one on hand to verify...

pretty excited to start the tear down...maybe tomorrow?

hmmm...interesting...this is what I`m getting for the mounts:

8D0199305 - support left / ADP,AHL,ADR, AFY,AEB,ARM, APT,APU,ANB, ARG,ANA, diesel eng.: AHU,AFN,AHH, AJM,AVG,ATJ ADP,ADR,AFY, AEB,AHU,AFN, AHH,APT,APU, ANB,ARG,AVG

8D0199306G - support right / ADP,ADR,AFY, AEB,AHU,AFN, AHH,APT,APU, ANB,ARG,AVG




according to this the AEB mounts should work...can anybody confirm this? looks like I`ll have to use a different oil filter housing - the AHU one will be in the way of the engine mount...

all right...the AEB mounts do not work this means it's on to custom mounts for putting this engine in the A4...looks like the cast is different between the european and the NA models...oh well...

here's an interesting direction this might take (that is until half of you come here and tell me it won't work...

look at what I got from the local junker yesterday....

there's some conflicting opinions on the specs but this seems about right...

Brand: Borgwarner / IHI
Model: 51T-32
Size: T3/T04E
Compressor A/R: 0.7
Compressor wheel: 50.3/70mm - 52 trim
Turbine A/R: 0.7
Turbine wheel: 64.6/62.1mm 77 trim
Flange type: standard T3
Center section: oil cooled journal bearings

Click to expand...

some pics:





I was looking for a Holset unit for my 2.2T, but found this one instead...the turbo comes off a Chevy 2500 TD (6.5L)...what do you guys think about the specs? It's considered a relatively small turbo in the gas world (~4-500hp on my 2.2) but it would be interesting to see what it does on a 1.9TDi...I`m guessing the first concern is spool? these can be had for dirt cheap and are very easy to rebuild which is the main reason I got it in the first place...

For a single turbo setup it won't spool full boost until probably 3500rpm if that.
With a smaller turbo like a GTB1756VK or GTB2056VK being fed by it, it'll make some good boost

If you don't end up using it, let me know, I might have a home for it.

a series compound? cool setup but not for a race car...must be as simple as possible...

say I didn't care for the late spool and just reved high all day long - will the engine live ok between 3500 and 7000rpm? I've seen videos of BT TDis revving way past redline so I`m assuming it's fine...might not be a good setup for rally but should be tons of fun on the track...my gasser doesn't see much until 2500 rpm with the stock turbo anyways - you learn to live with it I guess because what happens after 3000rpm is pure fun

You'd be pushing your luck to go up to 6000rpm or over, a few do it, but not many. Decent power can be made, but not much for torque. The power you'd get out of that big turbo probably wouldn't match up with the power you could get out of a GTB2260VK, and then you'd have it spooling way sooner. To get much over 220hp, you need to do some work with fueling. It only takes a GTB1756VK to hit 200hp and you'll have early spool and lots of torque.

Jon

If you are using a BHW block, you should be able to use motor mount brackets for the later 1.8t or BHW.

Otherwise you have to make one of these puppies....

k_harley said:

If you are using a BHW block, you should be able to use motor mount brackets for the later 1.8t or BHW.

Otherwise you have to make one of these puppies....

Click to expand...

Or use the proper European mounts.

all right...haven't updated this in a while...

pulled the tranny off my TDi and mounted the quattro tranny to the engine...one thing to keep in mind - the TDi clutch has a different spline than the quattro tranny...other than that pretty straight forward...

I`ll bolt the tranny in to center the engine to fab up the engine mounts over the next week or so...ideally I`ll get my hands on the manifold and turbo so I make sure I`m working around them...with those done, the engine is coming out and getting stripped for the rebuild...

the project is currently rotating around an Hx30 Holset blower and an 8V cast manifold...cheap and easily replaceable is KEY!!! the 1.8t tranny will keep me in higher RPM ranges which isn't the end of the world turbo spool wise...I want to stay away from the VNT turbos for cost and complexity purposes...let's see what happens...

of course - pics for clicks...

new tranny:


old tranny:


quattro vs. FWD


on it goes:


and in they go:


Scott - what mounts are those and how hard to get ahold of a pair?

You'll need a longitudinal clutch/flywheel, just like an Audi 1.8T from a B5, but for an 01E if that is what you had. Scott can help you out there.

do I need to swap the flywheel as well? looked to me like the clutch splines are the only problem...then again I don't know if the starter mates to the FW...

I`m using an O1A off the 1.8T A4...I could eventually swap to O1E if this thing can't handle the power

Yes, you need a longitudinal flywheel, the starter ring is on the different side of the flywheel and I can imagine that the pressure plate. You'll also need a pilot bearing for the crankshaft.

Scott_DeWitt said:

Or use the proper European mounts.

Click to expand...

No, you need a European block for it to work, not European mounts. The mounts are the same. European blocks had bosses that US models did not. At least on 1Z and AHU. ALH does have all the bosses needed, Id assume all later blocks do too.

wait...what's this?



I think we're officially on 'anti vnt17' grounds now

got the tranny mounts in the mail today but looks like I'm still missing a piece not a show stopper in any way so I tried to get the engine in...hmmm doesn't go...***?

DUH!!!



sigh...shoulda thought of that earlier I`ll swap in the pan from the 1.8T - the TDi one looks to be steel vs. the aluminum one from the 1.8T...



and got the turbo bolted up so I can figure out the engine mounts (once I swap the pan and bolt her in....



.I don't like where that intake manifold is looking at...means I`ll have to go all the way around with the piping...I`ll see if there's a euro piece that makes more sense - also notice there will be no exhaust recirculation...hmm - something like this could work nicely...



btw this is not the Hx30 I plan on using - this is an IHI off a Chevy Silverado that I sheared the axle of...so I`m using it for sizing purposes - might try and source another one out - it cost me like 40$

and here's a comparison with the stock turbo...




with the two of them sitting side by side I can't help but think of a staged turbo setup...there's certainly tons of room in the engine bay...

fun fun...

haven't updated in a while...
finally got the pan off...oops - the 1.8t one is different...


my guess is I need to find a pan off a 6A engine (early 1.8t?)...thoughts? anyways - dropped the engine in...



lots of room around the turbo:


oh also scored the front end from the local u-pull


next - weld up some mounts (apparently there's european mounts for this engine but I can't seem to find part numbers from anywhere...which is a shame because I`ll be there for a month in 2 weeks...)...once the mounts are done it's time for engine rebuild and first start

You're missing something from your turbo

g60ing is selling an AHH oil pan and pickup tube in the classifieds.
You might also need this: 050199307
I don't remember where we left off on mounts, pass side: 8D0199306G, drivers side:8D0199305
Drivers side might be a little different as I think blocks for longitudinal have an additional boss.

already msg-ed him

missing? nah...it's a new design - blade-less compression

any word on european mounts that would work with this? I can pick them up in the UK if such a thing exists...

see my edit above, and the link.

hmmm...

see this is what bugs me - both these part numbers list AEB in there as well yet I have a set of AEB mounts and they're very different...

can somebody confirm what the story is here? I know for a fact AEB mounts don't work...Scott DeWitt seems to think there's european mounts that work - what's the story...

all right...this process is moving too slow for my liking - this summer was a write-off but I`m hoping to get into it 100% starting next spring..

for the purpose I`ll need a shopping list and unfortunately, that's not yet finalized so here we go...let's get some input:

1. Turbo - Holset Hx30 (keep the N75 setup, simple, cheap, readily available)
2. Nozzles - talk to me
3. Chip - recommendations? Ideally somebody local...TDiMeister?
4. Engine rebuild - new pistons? new rods? new cams? new valves? I`m leaning towards an overbore to 2.0L - thoughts?

The car has a lift pump already so I`ll retain its use...I plan to rebuild the engine so I'd like to know whether I`m just doing maintenance or redoing everything (ie rings and bearings vs pistons and rods) and what are recommended supplier for the pistons/rods - Rosten etc? It seems forged pistons are a bad idea - I use them in all my gassers but this thing needs to be bulletproof...

The turbo might be a little big so I`ll need this to sing a little higher than 2000rpm...are oversized valves a good idea? if so - supplier?

the pump will stay stock for now - we`ll see how far we push this with the turbo and nozzles...if I hit 200hp I`m in happy land...

Remember - simple and reliable - I don't need fancy turbos I can't source on a moment's notice...VNT is out of the question at the moment and I`m willing to sacrifice some bottom end for this...

if anybody has a ready 200hp AHU shopping list go ahead and post it...

Cheers,

Emil

OK, take this from (probably) the person who has done the most B5 TDI swaps here, and was one of the first to use the AHU motor.

There are no motor mount brackets that fit the AHU and definetly not the 1Z block. If you were to get a european block, it has extra bosses to bolt an early style AEB motor.

Get an oil pan from an AEB, that will fit. You will need to weld the snub mount receiver to the front of it btw. The AEB bracketry wont fit.

Trust, me, I research this to death over a year ago and came up with this conclusion.

You need to make your own motor mount brackets like I posted a picture of for the driver side.

For the passenger side I made an adapter plate to use the AEB bracket, it wasn't that bad. The AEB bracket does hit 1 hole out of the 3 needed for the passenger side.

I really think that Holset is going to be a dog. Ive seen people put those on DSM's and they spool at like 5k rpms....on a GAS motor.
I used a VNT2056 on one of my AHU's. Never dyno'd it, but I think it could hit 200hp with enough fuel. They are found on the Jeep liberty CRD, don't know how common they are up your way?

Hope that helps ;-)

great info...the motor mounts were scaring me enough to want to swap out my BEW but I`m at peace with that now...I've got a few designs in mind and am moving forward with them...

none of the other accessory stuff is really bothering me - I've done crazier things than fitting a 4cyl engine in a B5

as for the Holset - that's a bit of a general statement...these turbos are made for diesels and are made to work and work hard all day long...they're essentially bulletproof and with some available for as low as 100$ I can buy a few before I get close to a VNT17 for example...the VNT stuff sounds nice for a daily driver but the complexity and cost associated with it is a direct show stopper...my opinion was different before Targa, but dealing with custom and rare sh*t mid race is simply stupid...as I said - it has to be simple and bulletproof... the Hx30 is a rather small turbo - boost comes early, it flows plenty and is internally wastegated...if anything it would be good to have some info on these turbos with the TDis - it's a little disappointing to see the lack of data on them...

Ill see if I have any pics of the pass. side adaptor plate. Right now the only one I have is on a car, along with that driver side one I already posted a pic of.

What application is that Hx30 off of? Maybe its not the same model as the one Ive seen DSMers use.

If that holset does have decent spool, then it sounds nice in regards to cost and availability, but I think you are overestimating the complesity of the VNT turbos. In reality, that is what an AFN setup would be, so its actually OEM to a B5 audi of that generation.

Lets say you get a wiring harness from europe to make that swap plug and play, use a euro ecu, its all going to be set up for a VNT turbo already.

Lads, I have a thought in my head that I need some help with...

I've got an AHU engine mated to the quattro right now as seen in the pictures above...this engine doesn't 'mount' in the B5 body (not bolt on anyways)....I also have a complete spare AEG sitting in my basement as well as an ABA crank...

So here's my train of thought...on the 1.8t side we swap 1.8t heads over to the 2.0 blocks and use TDi cranks to increase the engine volume...I`m going to start off with an assumption that the AHU and ALH heads are the same/interchangeable (somebody correct this please)...From what I can find the AEG and the ALH are identical tall deck blocks (not the same as the 1.8t which is short deck).

What I'd like to do is use the AHU head and pump and swap them over to the AEG block.

Discuss...(ie crank differences, pistons, rods, water pump)

I am assuming I`ll need TDi internals to maintain the compression/stroke of the TDi...can I de-stroke it and use forged AEG internals with custom pistons for example?

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Interesting build. I could definitely see something like this in my future.