Tsi engines

Fix_Until_Broke said:

Originally Posted by Fix_Until_Broke View Post
Girlfriend has a 1.8 TSI Passat and we regularly see 38-40 MPG on a 500 mile round trip with 250 miles at 75-80 and 250 miles at 60. She drives the same car back/forth to school/work and gets mid 20's in the cold winter and right about 30 in the spring/summer/fall. She does not know how to drive for economy. A couple co workers have 1.4 TSI Jetta's one has a ~100 mile highway commute and gets very high 40's and the other has a ~40 mile city commute and he gets mid 30's [edit = mid 40's /edit].
I'd have to agree as stated above that the performance and MPG gap between gas and diesel has more or less closed. Weather the complexity of gasoline direct injection will become a problem - we'll have to see. But I have confidence that a community like this will come up with solutions for them.

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Fix_Until_Broke said:

Edited above for accuracy after I asked him again today...

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It is great to share these data points above regarding fuel economy of the latest small gasoline engines from VW ('small' by American standards).

Having said that, once you start digging a little bit more under the surface and you look at relatively recent time (10 years or younger) MPG accumulated data from places like Fuelly, fueleconomy.gov and others (including some in Europe of course) you inevitably come to the conclusion that there is no such trend of closing the gap of fuel economy in same size vehicles. In fact the gap most likely widens in favor of light duty diesel as the size of the vehicle increases.

I would say that these long term real life MPG averages derived from millions of miles of compact, mid-size, etc. gasoline and light duty diesel cars are the most meaningful metric when it comes to comparing gasoline vs light duty diesel engines of relatively similar size.

Does this make sense?

turbobrick240 said:

I have heard that the ea888 timing chain/tensioner problem can be monitored by periodically checking block 208 & 209 with vcds. Normal reading would be about -2 KW. When the figure approaches -10 KW the chain is getting loose. A fault code is set at -14 KW I believe.

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That is correct, there is a timing chain stretch learned value in the ECU. However, this does not help if the slack side guide suddenly breaks and falls off and all at once the chain slaps itself crazy and jumps.

The ECU also uses this for vario-cam phase control, which depending on engine is either intake or intake and exhaust in addition to the valve control solenoids some of the newer higher output engines have.

What's funny to me is the AWM and AWP 1.8t engines from over a decade ago, based on a design that came about in 1998, happily make 170hp just fine, and the "new" EA888 1.8t engine also makes 170hp. And driven both engines in various models, I do not see any quantum leap forward in driveability. I'm sure the new engines (on paper) are "cleaner", and they are more fuel efficient, but how much of that is simply due to transmissions with taller and more numerous ratios?

Kind of off topic, but how about a Jeep Compass Sport 4x4 with cold weather package and automatic transmission? I have rented them and loved the cabin. Handling was OK. Hell of a deal for $23k if it doesn't blow up. Opinions?

Every time I think Fiat has worked hard at QC something proves me they still struggle.

But as a closet Jeep fan (the brand, not necessarily anything in particular), I kind of am lukewarm to the Fake Jeeps ("Feeps"), the Compass, Patriot, Renegade, etc.

The FCA CVTs are awful. The 11ty-speed ZF seems to have shift mapping programmed by someone who has never driven a car. The newer ones seem better, though.

I still like the Wrangler, even though the Pentostar engine has a lot of stuff that breaks (one of the other dead cars that needs an engine abandoned here is a 2012 Caravan with one of those ).

One of the Gurus here got a '19 Cherokee for his wife. They like it a lot. He has a close friend who's a Range Rover nut and he says the NVH on the Cherokee is far, far better than the Rovers. Damning with faint praise, perhaps, but still.

It shares the 4 cylinder engine (or some portion of it) with the Alfa Giulia sold here. That's a little scary, but may be OK.

Yeah, Fiat inherited the "World Engine", which was a Chrysler, Hyundai, Mitsubishi endeavor that MB had passed along. Fiat, evidently having no large displacement gas engine of their own, ran with it and graced it with their Multi-air system (on some models) and pulling the nostalgia strings, resurrected the Tigershark name for it. Although I think the new Cherokee has a different (Italian) engine, not the Tigershark although they may brand it that way.

They seem decent enough, and oddly perhaps better than the Hyundai/Kia version that has a tendency to have rods fall off for some reason.

Each company makes their own version of this engine, and while they share same basic design elements do not really share any parts. The Mitsubishi version, with MiVec, will go away once Renault is done gutting that company. They bought them for their EV tech, nothing else. The Eclipse-Cross fugly thing will be the very last new Mitsubishi product. Everything going forward, once phased out, will be a brand engineered model within the Renault/Nissan portfolio.

This isn't the Tigershark. It's a 2.0L that replaces that 2.4L.

They call it the Hurricane (another nostalgic Jeep moniker ). You can still get the 2.4L though, the 2.0L turbo is an option. You can also get the Pentostar I think, just asked a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep guy that was here.

2.2TDI said:

People in Europe are starting to dump their old diesels as it is becoming harder and harder to register them, or keep them road worthy due to laws becoming stricter. Not only that, their resale value is starting to drop, and at some point the resale value will be utter garbage.

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Please site your source for these statements. Based on a few searches they appear to be based on opinion rather than facts. Diesel vehicles continue to dominate the market in many European countries.

Here's one source:

https://www.reuters.com/article/europe-diesel/european-diesel-car-sales-plummet-iea-idUSL8N1WS22L

So evidently if the world 'plummet' applies to diesel non-commercial cars in Europe lately then I would not be surprised to see, in a not too distant future, the following headline:

"Demand for gasoline skyrockets in Europe, urban air quality becomes worse due to VOCs"

I just test drove an '18 gti. Nice car. Not as torquey as my hopped up golf, but I was really surprised to see 44 mpg on the mfd on the 5 miles coming back.

tikal said:

So evidently if the world 'plummet' applies to diesel non-commercial cars in Europe lately then I would not be surprised to see, in a not too distant future, the following headline:

"Demand for gasoline skyrockets in Europe, urban air quality becomes worse due to VOCs"

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EVs don't use gasoline

2017 year in review: European diesel down, electric vehicles on the rise

And renewables don't increase VOCs...
Brisk renewable growth across Europe

Here we go....

THREAD CRAP DETECTED

oilhammer said:

Here we go....
THREAD CRAP DETECTED

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Facts

Good thing I drove my F150 today. 16 MPG offsets the smug. I'll be burning tree tops all weekend long in my yard, too. I'll post a pic of me destroying the Earth for you.

Ford will probably only manage about 12 MPG hauling the oak down to the country property.... wood heat, you know, in the 100 year old farm house.

Log splitter.... oh boy. Let's see, Tecumseh 5hp engine, pretty worn, but still reliable. Doubtful it is healthy, smokes a little when cold. It'll be running non stop all day Saturday. I won't even shut it off to break for lunch, just to piss you off. It'll be worth the 15 cents of RUG it burns.

Boy you should see the smoke cloud the old 8N fires off on a cold start! You want a pic of that, too?

Seriously, you are doing yourself no favors here.

It's interesting that the diesel chart shows percentages but no total numbers, and the electric chart shows numbers. Despite electric car sales growth, it's a tiny share of the market, as this article shows.
https://www.acea.be/statistics/arti...-of-new-cars-between-2016-and-2017-by-country

EV sales in Europe are still a small percentage overall, but at the rate they're going, they won't be for long. I don't think the plummeting popularity of diesels in Europe portends well for the future availability of diesel cars here.

oilhammer said:

Good thing I drove my F150 today. 16 MPG offsets the smug. I'll be burning tree tops all weekend long in my yard, too. I'll post a pic of me destroying the Earth for you.

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I was simply pointing out that over a ~10 year period it's far more likely that diesels will be replaced by EVs not gasoline. How would you have phrased it?

nwdiver said:

I was simply pointing out that over a ~10 year period it's far more likely that diesels will be replaced by EVs not gasoline. How would you have phrased it?

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Since the article I linked to from the European Automobile Manufacturers Association says that most of the lost diesel car sales were replaced by petrol, that seems doubtful.

Matt-98AHU said:

But I'd be wary about taking one on a cross country road trip like I have done a couple of my TDIs. Too many oddball freak failures without warning for my liking. In particular the timing chain and water pump issues.

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I had no issues taking my CCTA motor car on a cross country trip, relocating from NJ to CA.

THe only issue I had was my TPMS light went on in Iowa. So, I stopped by a dealership for a rotation (it was due anyway due to mileage) and had them inspect the tire for punctures.

Granted, it's a 2016 CCTA, so the timing chain tensioner issue should have been resolved by them.

the mpg wasn't great... only 20 mpg, which I attributed to having UHPAS tires, a large cargo box and Utah's 80 mph speed limit.

I'm double fisting...

I squeeze tires in the splitter and wrap them with wire so they fit in the smaller outdoor wood burner.

The 2nd one I made has a fire box large enough for 6 men to stand inside. 6ft deep and 4.5ft tall

That one I throw in whole car seats, opens up room in the vehicle to pack more recyclables.

Both heat the 2 houses, 1 garage, hot tub, and dhw.

Feels great to take a shower knowing I'm recycling.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Since the article I linked to from the European Automobile Manufacturers Association says that most of the lost diesel car sales were replaced by petrol, that seems doubtful.

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I agree it's likely that most diesel vehicles will be replaced by petrol... but a lot of petrol will also be replaced by EVs. If you look at the predicted growth curve of EVs gasoline powered vehicles are likely to start declining even as they capture more market share from diesel.

As someone posted eariler, it would be interesting to look back at this thread and ten years and see what we predicted versus what actually happened. But we will all have most likely forgotten about this by then.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

It's interesting that the diesel chart shows percentages but no total numbers, and the electric chart shows numbers. Despite electric car sales growth, it's a tiny share of the market, as this article shows.
https://www.acea.be/statistics/arti...-of-new-cars-between-2016-and-2017-by-country

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The following are the numbers for registered Diesel, Gasoline and alternative fueled cars in Europe.


https://www.jato.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/10-4.jpg

And in the last year not shown on that chart, diesel registrations have accelerated their downward trend. The new car sales figures make that abundantly clear. We're probably seeing a temporary trend in the opposite direction here as the nicer buyback tdi's are resold, but it won't be long lasting. If the Europeans don't want diesels, they won't continue making them.

Seeking alpha....ROFLMAO. I'm a trader, that site is nothing but front running, short seller rumor pedaling and the occasional Nostradumbass polishing their crystal balls in public. The quickest path to an account balance of zero is to read that garbage and let it get into your head.

Ha! "Nostradumbass".... Awesome! I'm using that one.

RUG is down to $1.64/gal around here. Perhaps the TSI engines that can make use of that will do pretty well for the time being. Diesel was almost 80 cents more, it has not [yet] enjoyed a drop in price. The 1.4L in a base model Golf may be a great contender for an ALH after all. I'd still steer clear of the 1.8L and 2.0L TSI engines, though.

oilhammer said:

The 1.4L in a base model Golf may be a great contender for an ALH after all.

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I find this car seriously tempting for commuting and local use. And in the S trim it's just the way I like it: 6-speed manual, cloth seats, no sunroof. I've been thinking about finding the lowest mileage '15 SE Manual TDI I can, but the new Golf wouldn't cost much more. And no regens.

However, I'll probably just continue to drive my ALH TDIs. They work great, and cost less to own (insurance and taxes).