Need Buying Advice

I have a 2011 TDI Wagen which I have to turn in for the buyback. I had planned on keeping my TDI, but due to some unforeseen changes, accepting the buyback makes the most sense for me now. I will begrudgingly turn in my TDI.

I had planned on buying either an '18 or '19 Alltrack next fall, but now my timetable has changed.

I spend a lot of time in Brooklyn, NY and the prospect of getting a new car all dinged and dented up by bad parkers makes me pause. I started considering either buying a used Mark VI or Mark VII Wagen. I also really do not want a car payment now if I can avoid it. The 17s are on sale, but I think getting an 18 with the new 6yr/72k warranty seems to make more sense if one was buying a new wagen.

Does anyone have any advice on the pros and cons of buying either a used gasser MKVI wagen, a 15/16 TDI wagen, or 17/18 Alltrack?

I am reading through a lot of other threads, but any helpful advice is appreciated.

If you get a dieselgate car it has a much extended warranty that covers almost everything powertrain, the 2015's have the longest coverage. They are out there, not sure about selection in NY. Pricing is high around me, that will change as the older cars are released for sale again fixed, the flood gates should open any week now for the gen 1's and should bring all the prices down as the market will be quickly saturated. We traded all 3 cars in for new 2015 stock this spring/summer, it just made sense before the fix was announced and still makes sense giving the deals we got. If you are just running around the city a gas probably makes more sense and easier to deal with, a used mk7 wagon TSI is still a great car and they are deeply discounted right away once used. I would not recommend a mk6 2.5, thirsty engine compared to the newer stuff. The 2.0T has enough issues to stay away (carbon in the intake, turbo failures). The 1.8T looks promising. The Alltrack is simply overpriced, the 4 motion in a plain wagon makes way more sense or just the front drive. Plus the Alltrack has lots of unique parts and trim that will be very costly to fix when banged up...

Thanks Clacker

My salesman at my local dealer in PA said that they are not selling any Gen 1 TDIs post fix. Not sure if that is a local policy or not, but something to consider.

I am going to turn mine in, but either take off the parts I added, or possibly move them to another MKVI. I drive mostly in the city, but do make several trips a month down to PA. So a TDI would be nice in terms of economy, but not seeing many on the market yet. I have considered getting either a gasser MKVI Wagen or a Golf as an inexpensive beater that I will not worry too much about whilst I am in the city. Good advice on the 2.5 MKVI, will definitely keep this in mind.

I am going to ask my salesman to keep an eye out for some used ones, or possibly a 2017 depending on the incentives. I want the Alltrack, but I agree. It is rather overpriced. Hard to justify spending 34+ on something that will get beat up.

Lots to think about. Thanks!

If you really want to go with a TDI, it appears there are still lots of '15s around. You'll be better off using a web site that searches nationally to get best choice and price though. My own experience is that some regions have priced them ridiculously high.

Thanks TBone.

I am not sure if I want to stick with a 15/16 TDI or get a Gasser. I crunched the numbers and a new 17 or 18 are both out for now. I have been seeing better prices on some of the national used car sites, looks like I have some calls to make. Thanks for the advice.

I went from 2010 JSW to a 2015 GSW and I'm very happy with it. I know TDIs will get rarer as time goes on and now is the time to get one if you think you will within the next 5 years. I also expect it to maintain resale value as supply drops over the years.

Darth_Furious said:

I went from 2010 JSW to a 2015 GSW and I'm very happy with it. I know TDIs will get rarer as time goes on and now is the time to get one if you think you will within the next 5 years. I also expect it to maintain resale value as supply drops over the years.

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Looking for a 2015/2016 SW seems to be the right choice. I am looking for both TDIs and Gassers, but thus far I have mostly only found gassers for obvious reasons. I have to learn more about the 2.5 gasser engine, though a few folks have commented on its insatiable thirst.

Looks like the 4Motion Sportwagen S in 6spd MT are going for around $19,500 here in MSP.
The CPO TDI Sportwagen S are around $17k here.
Do you not get the 6 yr/72k warranty on the new 2017 VWs?

The 2.5 is one bomb proof design, it is tried and true. It has a funky sound and vibration that all 5 cylinders have (and 3 cyl). Super reliable to date, and I mean Homer Simpson could drive and nothing would go wrong. They just use more gas then comparable cars. Now will its simplicity make up for the gas costs, compared to a 2.0T yes for sure. Against a 1.4T not sure yet, nor with the 1.8T 3rd gen too new to tell reliability. But for sure it is hard to go wrong with the 2.5 in the sense of long term ownership. It might even beat a comparable model year TDI for cost of ownership in the first 10-15 years. My brother in law had one and he did nothing to it just drives and it was excellent for him, friends same thing. No timing belt to worry about. Gas costs are fixed per year, but cost of ownership is always a gamble...

Over the last few weeks I have test driven a few new and used cars. The first was a used 2012 SportWagen 2.5 SE. It felt so familiar as I drove down the road, but the engine was flat and there was very little pep or torque. I am sure going to miss my TDI.

I drove several 2013 GTIs and had much more fun on the test drive. Clacker - you were right about the engine differences!

I also drove a few Alltracks and with the 2018s coming, prices are falling. I am leaning more towards buying a used GTI to run for a few years and then getting a MKVIII Alltrack in 2020. The 6/72 Warranty seems like it is worth getting along with the revised platform.

Pushing a few dealers to take my offer, but happy to wait if need be. Thanks again all for the advice.

Darth_Furious said:

I went from 2010 JSW to a 2015 GSW and I'm very happy with it. I know TDIs will get rarer as time goes on and now is the time to get one if you think you will within the next 5 years. I also expect it to maintain resale value as supply drops over the years.

Click to expand...

... I'm in the cat bird seat. Have 2015 Golf TDi -- BB would be great

... if I do the fix, I am counting on the high resale value in the future. Time will tell

... just over 6,000 this week

msantram said:

Over the last few weeks I have test driven a few new and used cars. The first was a used 2012 SportWagen 2.5 SE. It felt so familiar as I drove down the road, but the engine was flat and there was very little pep or torque. I am sure going to miss my TDI.

I drove several 2013 GTIs and had much more fun on the test drive. Clacker - you were right about the engine differences!

I also drove a few Alltracks and with the 2018s coming, prices are falling. I am leaning more towards buying a used GTI to run for a few years and then getting a MKVIII Alltrack in 2020. The 6/72 Warranty seems like it is worth getting along with the revised platform.

Pushing a few dealers to take my offer, but happy to wait if need be. Thanks again all for the advice.

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Food for thought, software tuning only on the Alltrack and the gen3 1.8t will put it on par with the GTI but with AWD.

But I will warn, MPG are not your friend, you can milk 32 MPG but any speed above 65 its just dismal.

740GLE said:

Food for thought, software tuning only on the Alltrack and the gen3 1.8t will put it on par with the GTI but with AWD.
But I will warn, MPG are not your friend, you can milk 32 MPG but any speed above 65 its just dismal.

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GAH, thx 740GLE! Your comments made me drive back to a dealer to kick the tires on a 13 GTI and the 17 Alltrack. Great advice.

I love watching the prices fall, so I am trying to be patient. A discounted 17 SportWagen/Alltrack nicely tuned would certainly be nice. I did notice that the overall ride and engine performance in the Alltrack was really nice. Let's hope the 18's put more pressure on the 17's prices.

msantram said:

GAH, thx 740GLE! Your comments made me drive back to a dealer to kick the tires on a 13 GTI and the 17 Alltrack. Great advice.
I love watching the prices fall, so I am trying to be patient. A discounted 17 SportWagen/Alltrack nicely tuned would certainly be nice. I did notice that the overall ride and engine performance in the Alltrack was really nice. Let's hope the 18's put more pressure on the 17's prices.

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TIMES 10 <=====

... and it is. I see The lowly Jetta at $7,600 off. --- under $13,000 in a shiffter

msantram said:

GAH, thx 740GLE! Your comments made me drive back to a dealer to kick the tires on a 13 GTI and the 17 Alltrack. Great advice.
I love watching the prices fall, so I am trying to be patient. A discounted 17 SportWagen/Alltrack nicely tuned would certainly be nice. I did notice that the overall ride and engine performance in the Alltrack was really nice. Let's hope the 18's put more pressure on the 17's prices.

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I sure hope this situation works out for you. About all I can offer - after turning in my '13 JSW TDI 6M for $25k, I got a hellacious DEAL on a '17 Jetta . 1.4 turbo/5M. These deals are out there (one just has to find them.)

I also hope your premise on the 18's affecting 17 pricing holds true!

Holidays best,




ez

740GLE said:

Food for thought, software tuning only on the Alltrack and the gen3 1.8t will put it on par with the GTI but with AWD.

But I will warn, MPG are not your friend, you can milk 32 MPG but any speed above 65 its just dismal.

Click to expand...

Having turned in my '12 Golf TDI; driving both for > 100 miles on the test drives, a "new" 2015 GSW TDI and a 2017 GSW 1.8T 4Motion, I went with the gasser. It was $1500 less, had cloth heated seats and Apple Car play, both of which I wanted. The drive and feel of the 4Motion was much better than the TDI. Yes, MPG is averaging close to 30, but I knew going in I would be loosing the MPG. Yes, would do it again. Most pleased.

Better deals are to be had now. Just need to take the time to look.

Interesting. Mind going into more detail about how the drive of 4Motion was better?

@ezshift5 - I concur that the deals are out there. If one can wait until the end of December, I really believe that demand for the 17s will drop as the 18's become available. Supply will also be constrained, so these deals should be bigger, but one will have to be ready to pounce. I have seen prices for a 17 Alltrack S in the around $17.5k, but I really want one with a moonroof and the advanced headlights. Seems like those are only available in the SELs. Let's see if they price down...

@whatnxt How did you get to test drive each car for more than 100 miles? Nice work there.

@TheTortoise I have to add that the ride in the Alltrack with 4Motion was really smooth. Two weeks ago I took a buddy with me to test drive a 13 GTI. Lots of fun on the highway, but down the road we test drove a new 17 Alltrack and the first thing he said was how smooth the ride felt even with a responsive peppy engine.

I have price alerts on a few used car sites which are a bit more active these days as prices start to fall. A couple of dealers rebuffed my offers, stating that they will be able to sell the car at auction for more if they don't sell it on their lot. Not buying that line at all...

Now where is that bag of popcorn?

The Tortoise said:

Interesting. Mind going into more detail about how the drive of 4Motion was better?

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Balanced handling and feel. Yeah, its 4 Motion and that that would be expected over RWD or FWD but it was a very apparent. In the rain or wet, feels more planted to the road. Sportier and better through turns. Firmer suspension but not too stiff. Smoother engine (personal and subjective). Overall, just felt more fun to drive. Yes, the GSW felt different than the Alltrack. Did drive one of those also, and that is why I when with the GSW and not the Alltrack.

Have worked with the salesperson before and told them what I expected. Have waked before when other salespersons did not agree. I paid for the gas used. Just believe in telling them upfront what I expect. Not going to spend that $$$ for a 15 minute drive or waste their time and mine.

Ahh interesting, there it is. You compared the GSW 4Motion to the Alltrack 4Motion.

I may go do the same to understand the difference in feels myself.

So here is my 2 Pennies worth on our New AllTrack. Love IT!!! Pricing: Dealers in Seattle area have 20 to 30 on their lots and sitting 200+ days. Discounts $5k to $7k on SEL's. VERY few SEL with Light & Driver Assist Packages. We had University VW reach out and find exactly what we wanted Color & Light Assist for $7K off MSR at a dealer across the Sound. Great purchase experience!
Why buy now? With Itemized Tax Deduction going away in 2018 we decided to take that $3k Sales tax hit in 2017. And looks like the 2018 models will have only a few changes + little Incentives from VW to Dealers.
The difference between our 2014 JSW TDI is amazing. Performance - Handling - Balance - Interior - Tech options - HID & LED Lighting - Seating - Auto A/C - plus AWD!
And I read & viewed so many reviews - but all focused on Off Road capability... but none even mentioned the SPORT setting in the MODE selector, or the Custom 4 way U-Pick Mode option. Explored some of this today and I am impressed. My "other car" is an old Carrera so I appreciated these Sport options in addition to the DSG shift setting... and Paddle Shifters! This truly is a GTI Wagen.
Now I know it does not have the TDI Torque, but that 1.8 is quite responsive and I like the potential of a 7000 RPM Redline (have not gone there yet).
As for the JSW - it will wait till July to get turned in to maximize the $ Mileage bonus and give us another car for travel in spring. And mileage wise - I expect to lose 20% in MPG and gain back 10% on the now lower cost of Regular grade fuel. And we will not be High Miles drivers as retirement arrives in 2018 anyway. And Gretta our German Shepard, still fits very well in the GSW AllTrack

Hi Jack.

Sounds like you got a fantastic deal! So excited for you loving your new Alltrack, congrats. I found the same to be true about these '17 Alltracks sitting on dealer's lots. Are people not buying because of the scandal? Did your salesperson give you any reasoning why buyers are staying away, aside from the diesel gate issue?

The one Alltrack I recently test drove was so dirty, the sun damage on the plastic trays beneath the windshield wipers looked as if the car was ten years old. I suspect this Alltrack did not move positions in the lot all summer. So did you get the lighting and driver's assist package? e.g. bi-xenons & LEDs?

As a fellow dog owner, one of the best features our TDI wagens is by far the truly fold-flat seats. In the alltrack, the rear seat base does not fold up, which means the incline on the rear seat while folded down is seemingly something between 15 and 30 degrees. Not great for my dog.

Two differentiating factors for the '18 are the 6Year/72k Warranty and the larger 8" media display. The other changes seem less significant for now. Wait till they hit the lots, I suspect the deals on the 17's will only get better until supply is constrained.

My original plan was to get an Alltrack in the autumn of '18, but now the cards in my hand are different. I have been looking at several '13 & '14 GTIs. In fact I went to a reseller dealer today for what was supposed to be to finalize the contract, only to be told by other employees that the GTI had been sold the night before. The sales people who confirmed my appt in the morning were both conveniently "missing". Classic bait and switch with inept salespeople. I just walked out.

I have been thinking of a GTI in Brooklyn as it is much easier to find smaller parking spots. Plus my budget is constrained with other necessary fixed expenses, In fact, if I were to get a MKVI GTI, I would consider doing a rear seat delete and getting one of these platforms: http://www.eurokreations.bigcartel.com/product/volkswagen-mk6-four-4-door-rear-seat-delete

After missing out on this GTI today, I am resolved to wait until dec 30th/31st before looking seriously again. I was impressed with just how much bette the 1.8 engine felt over the 2.5 engine in the gasser wagens and GTI.

You mention a GTI wagen, too bad VWOA will not import them. I would glad pay for a loaded R or even GTI wagen, as I am sure many ex-TDI vw owners would go. Congrats again! Safe driving.

Granted the Alltrack is a spacious, somewhat torquey vehicle (and looks-wise strongly resembles my bar-setting JSW TDI).

Having said that, big-time MPG/torque withdrawal symptoms concern this USNR sailor.

Enter VW's new 1.4 turbo. VERY - looking at Fuelly.com - highway fuel efficient. Plus the little preek logs circa 185 ft/lbs at low RPM.

Hopefully a vw wagon awaits prior to the next Presidential Election!



ez

EZ - you are spot on about Low End Torque Withdrawal. I have sat in several '17 Alltracks and they ride really well. But I think the interior design of the overly brushed steel moulding is something to be desired. Have you sat in the new Atlas or Tiguan? The new display and accompanying interior design is much better than in the MKVII Golf family. The warranty on the incoming '18 Alltracks is something worth waiting for in my opinion.

I am only looking at '13 and '14 GTIs now as a holdover until the MKVIII Golf Alltrack is released in 2020. Waiting patiently for used GTI prices to fall over the next three weeks...

This afternoon I saw a few 18 GTIs on my dealer's lot. They look similar on the outside to the MKVII GTIs, but the interior has been refined; the 2018 Alltrack will follow suit.

msantram said:

EZ - you are spot on about Low End Torque Withdrawal............................. Have you sat in the new Atlas or Tiguan?

This afternoon I saw a few 18 GTIs on my dealer's lot. They look similar on the outside to the MKVII GTIs, but the interior has been refined; the 2018 Alltrack will follow suit.

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No Atlas sitting thus far. One of my work buds is extremely pleased with his wife's brand new Tiguan.


De Guistibus Non-Desputandum, amigo


ez sends from snowy KCMO..........

Picked up a '13 CPO GTI this past Thursday. Wow. It is no TDI, but very happy with this purchase.