TB job or not-now?

vwdsmguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2002 Golf black 5-spd
I replaced the belt [100K type], bolts, pump, acess. belt, cam seal at about 75K. Now at 148K, I have all these same parts to go on, I looked at all the teeth on the TB, which look like new, so how long to put it off?
 
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whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I replaced the belt [100K type], bolts, pump, acess. belt, cam seal at about 75K. Now at 148K, I have all these same parts to go on, I looked at all the teeth on the TB, which look like new, so how long to put it off?
I don't see any of the rollers or tensioner on your list. Did you just buy a few parts and throw them on? From your list, it certainly sounds like it. What is needed is a full kit from a trusted vendor here. This kit will include all of the parts needed to do a proper timing belt replacement.

Yes, the belt looks fine and that is my one frustration with timing belts. So often everything looks fine, but there is no way to know FOR SURE how much life is left in them and a failure in any of those parts usually leads to catastrophic results, so it's best to replace ALL of the necessary parts at the recommended interval rather than risk an expensive failure by Bing penny wise and pound foolish.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Assuming you did replace all the necessary appurtenances back at 75k, you should be safe running it 100k. Many of us like a more conservative number, say 80k, because of what happens when it does fail.
If your cam seal is dry, I would skip that item.
 

vwdsmguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2002 Golf black 5-spd
TB change

Yes, I did change the rollers and tensioner with a TB kit from Peter Noble {IDParts]. It's just hard to know what condition the rollers are in.
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
I swore I read somewhere that it was 4 years/100k miles was the "rating" for timing belt intervals...
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I think that the time interval is more like 6 - 7 years; that's industry standard, I think.

It's all kind of a crap shoot. You replaced it in time if you got to it before there was an event. If you replaced due to an event then you didn't replace it in time!

Keep in mind that the parts you're running are the parts you know. New ones introduce a possibility of early failure: statistical curve says this will happen; if it happens to you then it's a 100% failure rate (if it happens to someone else then it's just a statistic).

Wife's car's TB was changed at 134k miles. I'll likely do it at 230k miles (another 25k miles): I think that this will be within the time interval.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Yes, I did change the rollers and tensioner with a TB kit from Peter Noble {IDParts]. It's just hard to know what condition the rollers are in.
Ok. Great. I just did a buddies TB on his TDI and his Acura/Honda and there was nothing that would have been a concern today or tomorrow.

But how long would they last? That's the big unknown and that's why we replace everything in the belts path. It sucks to throw away parts that look perfectly good, but there is a perfectly good reason we do it when the consequences are so dire.

This is different than parts changers that replace perfectly good parts as part of troubleshooting. So just replace them even though they look perfectly fine today.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
There's a reason why they're specified for replacement, and that's that the operational testing has shown that that's the longest that one should go and still be safe. I'm assuming that they add in a little fudge factor to compensate for various nearly-impossible-to-control variables. While one could likely push past this interval a bit it would be silly to do so: not likely going to go far enough to warrant any real cost savings, all at the expense of rapidly increasing risk (which would wipe out any cost savings PLUS a lot more!).

What's interesting in all of this is that VW never specified a time interval for replacing the WP. I'm running one TB job that a dealer went by the book on (commissioned by PO)- they didn't replace the WP; about 70k miles on that job, which could mean that that WP has a LOT more miles (likely close to 150k miles). I would never NOT install a new TB along with a new TB, as pushing 200k miles on one part is asking a lot.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I think uhoh and I have been saying the same thing over and over in different ways, so I hope that the OP got the point. LOL.
 

buratino1117

Active member
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Location
Bellevue, WA.
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI DSG
Well, my recently acquired 06 Beetle with only 57500 miles on it still has the original TB components...I see some posts here that refer to TB replacement due time matter instead of miles (11years and low 57500 miles). Maybe I should look into replacing mine quite soon...I m in an area (Seattle) where is not too cold or too hot but then...the Russian roulette game comes to my mind as someone mentioned above, and would not really want to feel myself sorry tooooooo late while looking to fix a damaged head/engine.:mad:
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Well, my recently acquired 06 Beetle with only 57500 miles on it still has the original TB components...I see some posts here that refer to TB replacement due time matter instead of miles (11years and low 57500 miles). Maybe I should look into replacing mine quite soon...I m in an area (Seattle) where is not too cold or too hot but then...the Russian roulette game comes to my mind as someone mentioned above, and would not really want to feel myself sorry tooooooo late while looking to fix a damaged head/engine.:mad:
Do it NOW!

Any time you buy a used TDI it is a very good idea to do
the timing belt, unless you have very good documentation on when,
and how many miles ago, it was done.
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
^^^ Yes, what he said. Even though a tire may have minimal mileage on it, if the tire is over 6 years old the mfg will say to change the tire out, same thing with timing belts. With them both being made with rubber components, I suggest your timing belt should be changed as soon as is possible.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
4 years, 6 years, I believe that's just nuts. Todays rubber materials will last 20. Constant high heat would shorten that I suppose. I'm terrible with car care, good with maintenance and repair. My tires look great after 12 years, timing belt is even older, all look fine.
I know you folks are quoting manufacturer recommendations, but I say they're outdated and/or overly conservative.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
4 years, 6 years, I believe that's just nuts. Todays rubber materials will last 20. Constant high heat would shorten that I suppose. I'm terrible with car care, good with maintenance and repair. My tires look great after 12 years, timing belt is even older, all look fine.
I know you folks are quoting manufacturer recommendations, but I say they're outdated and/or overly conservative.
Your Timing belt is over 12 years old?

Buy a lottery ticket. :rolleyes:
 

hey_allen

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Location
Altus, OK
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Regarding the components in the belt path:
I just replaced the timing belt on my car, at 301,000 miles.
I have documentation of it's last replacement at 224,000 miles, and it had the "100,000 mile" kit of parts installed, with a Hepu pump, Ina idler rollers, and a Littens tensioner if I remember correctly.

As I took all the pieces off, I was inspecting for the reputable brand names that I expected to see, and did find present. What I also found was that even with only ~80,000 miles on the timing belt components, there was some detectable wear and slop to the bearings on a few components.
One of the small idlers had a barely felt wobble to it, if you hold the core and rock the outer surface, while the other felt fine. The large idler felt a little more loose yet.

The serpentine belt tensioner roller was notchy, the dampener was dead, and the idler roller was sloppy loose.


Personally, even though I just spent ~$500 on parts for the timing belt, serpentine belt, and alternator pulley (which had also seized hard), I will be planning to replace the timing belt in another 80,000 miles, and inspecting the serpentine belt path earlier than that.

These are complex machines, and things do wear. That said, I don't feel like it owed me anything at that point, as the car has already done 300,000 miles, and gets great fuel economy while doing so.

Doing the same job on my last car, a 1984 Mercedes with a v8, was still a 100,000 mile interval, and if you had to go beyond the chain and tensioner, you were talking about tearing the heads off to get to everything, which was hidden down in the timing gallery which spanned the whole face of the engine. (It also only got 15 mpg on average, burning premium unleaded the whole way!)
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
I replaced the belt [100K type], bolts, pump, acess. belt, cam seal at about 75K. Now at 148K, I have all these same parts to go on, I looked at all the teeth on the TB, which look like new, so how long to put it off?
'02 Golf TDI, RC5, PP764's, FMIC, 2.5" T-Back, OMI, SB-3 clutch, 11mm pump, VNT17/22, 3 Bar MAP, CAT filter, 90 GPH Holley lift pump, modded D24 intake manifold, Rosten rods, Nural pistons, ported head - 15.0 @ 94 at the drags

vwdmsguy,

With the mods you're running, I'd be doing your TB now. Lots more stress on a hard run engine. Hey_allen and his findings speak loudly to the fact that it ain't necessarily the belt that breaks.

In buratino's case, mebbe 6k a year, NOT running the motor much
can also cause bearing problems, and probably little short hops when it was run.

My $.02, about what a lottery ticket is worth {:eek:)
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
'02 Golf TDI, RC5, PP764's, FMIC, 2.5" T-Back, OMI, SB-3 clutch, 11mm pump, VNT17/22, 3 Bar MAP, CAT filter, 90 GPH Holley lift pump, modded D24 intake manifold, Rosten rods, Nural pistons, ported head - 15.0 @ 94 at the drags

vwdmsguy,

With the mods you're running, I'd be doing your TB now. Lots more stress on a hard run engine. Hey_allen and his findings speak loudly to the fact that it ain't necessarily the belt that breaks.

In buratino's case, mebbe 6k a year, NOT running the motor much
can also cause bearing problems, and probably little short hops when it was run.

My $.02, about what a lottery ticket is worth {:eek:)
I know that I've read a discussion about whether or not mods affect TB components and I seem to recall it being described that there's little difference over stock. Compression and or any resistance isn't being altered. Larger IP WOULD present more resistance (I suspect that this was one of the reasons why early 01m ALHs had lower TB replacement intervals (01m cars ran 11mm IPs; standard trans cars ran 10mm IPs). Valvetrain doesn't present much in the way of being subject to altered resistance (unless one used heavier springs, something that I'm not aware is done with these engines [maybe some very hardcore drag ones]). If there is anything that would likely alter service life it would be out and out rapid accelerations- the change in the rate of speed in which all components are turning; though, here too, I don't think that it's as much as one might think.

When I did the TB on my car the top small roller was dry: no question this would have been the piece that broke first. Daughter's wagon had crusty rollers- PO didn't replace them when the belt and WP were changed (perhaps only 10k miles before I did a correct/full TB Job).
 
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