"Upgraded" Aftermarket intakes causing DPF failures?

Has your DPF failed?

  • I have an aftermarket intake, my dpf has not failed.

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • My DPF Failed, I had an aftermarket intake.

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • My DPF failed, i had a stock intake.

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10

AARodriguez Corp.

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
South East USA
TDI
2009 JSW and Golf 2004 TDI
If this is a repeat of an old thread, my apologies.

We've been recommending that all customers who have stock equipment keep their intakes stock as well. Almost every TDI that I know of that has a DPF fail (probably about 10x) had an aftermarket intake installed. 2 major name brands come to mind.

Is anyone else seeing this?
 

Boyka

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Location
Galiza
TDI
Audi a4 avant 3.0 tdi Remap
Mine goes for 30,000 kms upgraded without problem .golf 1.6 tdi cr
 

DieselRacer

banned
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Location
AZ-NV
TDI
BMW Advanced Diesel...2011 BMW 335d
I heard the aftermarket intake throws sensors and I have seen the dyno graphs where it can actually loose power from OEM intake...:(
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
I would look to see if they are using oiled or synthetic media filters.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Some aftermarket intakes (we all know which ones) don't filter well. Crap in = crap out. Crap out = crap in DPF.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Heard of it but haven't personally seen one happen. This turbo had one of those aftermarket intakes on it...

 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
That right there would result in a DPF full of sand, methinks.
 

Kevinski4

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Location
Nebraska
TDI
.
You'll trash the engine sucking dirt long before you fill up a DPF with it. I've only seen one failed DPF that was blamed on an intake. The car kept throwing MAF codes all the time, and it ate 2 DPFs in 20k miles.
 

AARodriguez Corp.

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
South East USA
TDI
2009 JSW and Golf 2004 TDI
You'll trash the engine sucking dirt long before you fill up a DPF with it. I've only seen one failed DPF that was blamed on an intake. The car kept throwing MAF codes all the time, and it ate 2 DPFs in 20k miles.
Just curious, 1 failed (due to intake) out of how many failed DPFs?
 

Kevinski4

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Location
Nebraska
TDI
.
Just curious, 1 failed (due to intake) out of how many failed DPFs?
Probably 6 or so in the past year.

It's not the lack of filtering that causes DPF issues, it's sensor problems that some new intakes create that leads to the DPF failure. I also have seen 2 failed due to tuning (not Malone). EGT limiter map was totally deleted and the car had a cracked DPF.
 
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ibexlatham

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Location
Willow Springs, IL
TDI
'09 Jetta TDI 6spd - dead
I've been avoiding it because I know what is coming, but I'll admit I was the one fool who had a DPF failure with an aftermarket intake... that being said I do not think the intake was a direct cause of the failure, it may have contributed, but it was not the cause.

The failure progressed this way, at 115k miles I had an exhaust flap valve code come up, after cleaning it a few times I changed it around 117k. I probably put the aftermarket filter on at 120k and by 125k I was throwing EGR codes.

At 140k I gave up on cleaning and replacing the EGRs and took it to my friend at VW which his first question was "How long have you had the K&N filter on there? VW Tech Line says they've seen DPF failures they think are caused by an aftermarket filter"... when I told him it was on for 20k he said they told him it probably was not the cause of the failure but they recommend removing it as soon as possible anyway.

The overall failure was a cracked DPF, I've never had a MAF code or any pre-DPF or EGT sensor codes, the K&N filter was removed after the failure was "repaired".

I am fairly certain that the stuck exhaust flap valve was the main cause of the crack in the DPF, most likely from soot accumulation and high EGTs. The K&N filter may have contributed to this by altering the air flow or fuel map.

And before this turns into a lecture on the evils of K&N filters we are all well aware of this thread; http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=290373 unfortunately I only found it well after I installed the K&N filter.
 
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turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Why do people like to rice up their cars so much? lol
^This. The stock MK4 air filter is massive and is already a cold air intake. Unlike aftermarket junk, its properly designed and engineered function correctly and filter dirt and keep out water.

Any aftermarket intake is a downgrade over the stock system IMO.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
I've been avoiding it because I know what is coming, but I'll admit I was the one fool who had a DPF failure with an aftermarket intake... that being said I do not think the intake was a direct cause of the failure, it may have contributed, but it was not the cause.

The failure progressed this way, at 115k miles I had an exhaust flap valve code come up, after cleaning it a few times I changed it around 117k. I probably put the aftermarket filter on at 120k and by 125k I was throwing EGR codes.

At 140k I gave up on cleaning and replacing the EGRs and took it to my friend at VW which his first question was "How long have you had the K&N filter on there? VW Tech Line says they've seen DPF failures they think are caused by an aftermarket filter"... when I told him it was on for 20k he said they told him it probably was not the cause of the failure but they recommend removing it as soon as possible anyway.

The overall failure was a cracked DPF, I've never had a MAF code or any pre-DPF or EGT sensor codes, the K&N filter was removed after the failure was "repaired".

I am fairly certain that the stuck exhaust flap valve was the main cause of the crack in the DPF, most likely from soot accumulation and high EGTs. The K&N filter may have contributed to this by altering the air flow or fuel map.

And before this turns into a lecture on the evils of K&N filters we are all well aware of this thread; http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=290373 unfortunately I only found it well after I installed the K&N filter.
Interesting progression. The exhaust flap is a critical component in the emissions functions, and not replacing it very soon after failure can cause DPF damage. I some cases, the DPF can not be regenerated without a functioning exhaust flap, leading to soot buildup and plugging.

Not trying to rub it in, just pointing it out to anyone reading who might think it's fine to ignore the check engine light and defer maintenance.
 
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ibexlatham

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Location
Willow Springs, IL
TDI
'09 Jetta TDI 6spd - dead
Interesting progression. The exhaust flap is a critical component in the emissions functions, and not replacing it very soon after failure can cause DPF damage. I some cases, the DPF can not be regenerated without a functioning exhaust flap, leading to soot buildup and plugging.

Not trying to rub it in, just pointing it out to anyone reading who might think it's fine to ignore the check engine light and defer maintenance.
Yep, I made a mistake by not recognizing the urgency of fixing the flap valve and it definitely came back to bite me. I treated it like my Nissan which a CEL would only cause a decrease in power or MPGs, never considered ignoring it and trying to fix it myself first would possibly cause the DPF to fail... of course, I'm not 100% certain that caused the failure, since in the end I just know it was a cracked DPF and I dont know when or why it exactly failed.

Oh well, you live and you learn...
 

DieselRacer

banned
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Location
AZ-NV
TDI
BMW Advanced Diesel...2011 BMW 335d
I was ready to get an aftermarket cold air intake when I got my first TDI till I found this site...:)
 

steve05ram360

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
all over
TDI
2011 2D Golf
I have run a CAI for over 35k miles (estiamte) now and have monitored the dpf, i ran 2 filters on it, 1 that flowed more (dry type) and an oiled. (the oiled type is a severe duty one, right after install i could feel an increase in low end torque) 25k on the dry, 10k on the oiled. The first 25k on the dry showed reduced or slowing of the ash buildup in the dpf, the next 10k showed an increase. Currently back on the dry with about 5 k on it. Planning to get a larger dry version to run with a modified stock airbox sometime down the road.

Both easily out perform the stock setup. Seems to me that dirty air filters could lead to increased soot & ultimately ash in the dpf and it does not appear that a cai could cause a dpf to fail based on what i have seen...
 

steve05ram360

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
all over
TDI
2011 2D Golf
Peak numbers no, wider powerband yes. Dyno plots show a faster spoolup and wider powerband (posted on this site)
 
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steve05ram360

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
all over
TDI
2011 2D Golf
I don't see a dyno of a stock car with nothing but an intake installed... do you?
doesnt matter if its stock or modified, the 2 plots show with & without an AFE kit which is the right way to test it, one change at a time. Your stance is that they are worthless and do nothing for performance, mine is it does... changes the spool-up and top end, you loose peak (in this case) and gain on the other ends... the 1st plot shows it.
 

storx

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Location
Earth!!
TDI
2009 Jetta CR140, 2010 Corvette Z06
i use the stock filter box on my GTB2260 setup.. and it works fine except i only get about 8-10k miles out it before the vacuum gauge starts showing up in the red..
 

LarBear

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Location
Billings, MT
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI DSG
Maybe I'm just not very bright, it's been mentioned, but shortly after we got our Jetta I pulled off the top of the air filter to take a look at what was in there. The air comes in from right under the edge of the hood, and around some corners in a largish tube to keep water out I guess, then into a filter that's as large or larger than that on either the '99 V6 Passat we had or the '08 V6 RAV 4 (aka POS) I get to drive :eek:. The only improvement that I can see that might be possible would be to draw the air from the high pressure area at the base of the windshield, but that would require a bunch of shifting stuff around for likely very little or no improvement.

How much air does a 2L engine that redlines at 5k rpm need? Certainly no more than a 2.9L to 3.5L engine that redlines at 6.5k and likely quite a bit less. What's the point of having an air filter that'd take care of a 3 or 4 times larger engine, except to say that you've got it?
 

Digital Corpus

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Location
Ontario, California
TDI
'97 B4 w/ 236K mi body, 46K mi soul
2 l * 5000 RPM / 2 = 5000 l/min

However, we are turbocharged, forced induction, thus the PR matters. Oh and heated and cooled air and volumetric efficiency. 20 psi is safe at 5K if the turbo likes is, 80% VE, and ~10% reduction in air density due to turbo compressor and intercooler [in]efficiencies. That works out to ~7700 liters of air per minute when the simplistic math is worked out.

For your naturally aspirated engines, a 2.9 l engine at 80% VE would give about 7500 liters per minute at 6.5K and a 3.5 would give ~9100 liters per minute.
 

AARodriguez Corp.

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
South East USA
TDI
2009 JSW and Golf 2004 TDI
I was told this weekend that VW just released a TSB on CAIs causing DPF failures. Anyone seen that yet?
 

VarmintSlayer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Location
Napanee, Ontario
TDI
2009 Trendline TDI 6spd manual Black
Fwiw my exhaust flap has been failed for almost 4 years, stage 2 tune almost 2 years (80,000km).

Stock intake, car feels fine. Pulls hard.
 
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