ASV vs BHW

Can anyone enlighten me on the compatibility between a BHW and ASV short block? For example, will an ASV crank fit a BHW block without major modifications? (main journals, rod journals, etc).

BHW pistons are 81mm STD and that makes them a 2.0 engine. All the 2 liter engines have larger crank/ connecting rod journals; 53.7mm compared to the 1.9 crank/ rod, which is 50.6mm.

The wrist pin end is the same size for both engines, but the BHW pistons are tapered journals, so, if you use the BHW pistons, the ASV rods either have to be modified by cutting them into a taper, or you have to buy rods that are cut tapered. Beginning with the BEW PD motors, and all 2.0 liter engines forward, have the taper-cut rods.

The other difference between the ASV and the BHW, besides diameter, is the ASV pistons are .008" shorter. So, if you are using the ASV block, it is likely that the piston height for the BHW will be too tall, without having to modify the BHW piston top.

Both pistons; ASV and BHW are oil galleyed and may require that the oil squirts be aimed carefully, in order to direct oil into the piston's galley hole.

The only other difference I can think of is that the ASV piston is 19.5:1 compression ratio, while the BHW is 18.25:1. When considering performance, the lowered compression has it's place. More chamber, bigger charge, dynamic over mechanical compression can be improved.

Given all the differences, the end results are quite different. As a rule, I prefer the BHW piston. We stock the pistons, balance in sets and often install our performance diesel rings, for improved longevity and reduced parasitic drag.

As for the blocks, the dimensions are the same. and there is no difference between the crank main bearing dimensions. Either crank can be used. But it could be assumed the larger rod journals of the BHW crank are an improvement.

One other difference... the 53.7 rod bearings are of course, larger, but they do not come with tangs and they are sputtered bearings, which is a plasma coating on the top bearing shell. The deposit makes the bearing very durable.

We have seen the bearings incorrectly installed. The bottom bearing is the same material as any; a tin coating only. The bearing that goes into the connecting rod itself, is silvery and a lighter color. Incorrectly installed, the bearings will not be any more durable than a standard set of bearings. The sputtered bearing life expectancy is well over 250,000 miles.

Thanks for the reply!

Ugh, too much work. I just want a crank with a manual trans flange that will drop into my BHW and accept my existing forged rods. I'm getting close to the holding limit on my 228mm clutch (425 ft-lb tq). In the near future, I'm planning to exceed that limit, and the only options with enough holding power are 240mm clutches. I want to run a dual mass flywheel, which means adding the 5.5mm spacer, which means there's a good chance the input shaft won't have enough engagement in the pilot bearing because of the auto trans flange.

I wish there was a simple longer pilot bearing to resolve this.

There kinda is a longer bearing...

The consideration is to make a part that will assemble onto the Passat auto crank, to lengthen the support of the bearing. As a matter of fact, I was talking about this yesterday, with another TDI'er. There is a double-length oilite bronze bearing that would surely work. Although, I have heard rumor that the oilite bearing 'fix' is not all that great, I really don't see why it would not work. the bearing has to protrude about 3/4" from the back face of the flywheel in order to properly support the transmission shaft.

As the needle bearing fits in the auto crank, the needle bearing would barely be in the crankshaft housing, in order to be properly extended to support the transmission shaft, so, that thought is out.

Forged rods? You mean the OEM BHW 53.7mm cracked rods? You are stretching the limit if you are going 425 ft lbs. Cracked rods are designed to crack, which doesn't mean the rods would ONLY crack to split the big end.

A couple people have tried the Oilite bushing idea in the past, without success. The wear on the bushing became excessive quickly.


No, I mean the IE Tuscan forged rods that I used when building the engine 40k miles ago.

GoremanX said:

I just want a crank with a manual trans flange that will drop into my BHW and accept my existing forged rods.

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This seems to be the catch-22 with the BHW engine in manual swaps. I have been running through the same scenarios myself: stick with the 228mm flywheel that lets you use a DMF without a spacer, and live with the power limitations or driveability tradeoffs of the 228mm clutch setup, or bite the bullet on the spacer and the special Euro starter for a 240mm DMF then face the question of pilot engagement, messing around with custom pilot bearings/bushings, etc.

Don't quote me, but I believe that if you really do want exactly what you described above, it might exist if you are ready to search for it. The Euro market 2.0L 8v BGW engine is supposed to be identical to the 2.0L 8v BHW except for the lack of a BSM and a manual trans rather than auto. My assumption would be that a BGW crank would work with a BHW block and rods and have the correct crank end length to hold the pilot bearing for a manual transmission if all of that is true. See here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=463042

The funny part of that thread is that it suggests the BGW's crankshaft part number is also shared with the ASZ and ARL engines, and possibly also the AVF and AWX. From what I can tell those four engines are 1.9L PD130 motors and should have the smaller rod journals, unless some of the European market higher output 1.9s also had the beefed up 2.0L style cranks (I did not think they did). Either that, or the 2.0L BGW uses the smaller 1.9L rod journal diameter (also doubtful), or the info given there on crankshaft compatibility between the BGW and other engines is wrong. But the part numbers and compatibility appear to be quoted from ETKA so presumably are beyond question, though I have not checked firsthand....

At any rate, it seems at least likely that the BGW crank would accomplish what you're thinking about if a few of the questions could be cleared up with a little more homework. Only trick would be finding one as it seems the BGW was a relatively low sales volume engine.

Again I have wondered about doing this same thing, so please report back if you find out anything definitive.

Isn't the ARL a PD150 engine? From what I was seeing on ebay, some ASV short blocks are listed as suitable ARL replacements (hence my initial question). And I vaguely remember that someone put an ARL crank in a BHW once upon a time without any modifications necessary. Of course, my memory isn't what it used to be, and Google is failing me. Sure would be nice if there was a list of different PD engines and their specs/measurements somewhere!

I'm not hopeful on finding a BGW crank. That seems like a unicorn to me. I wasted hours and hours of my life seeking one out a couple years ago when I was first building this engine.

Since I was curious I did a little more research just now.

d24tdi said:

...some of the European market higher output 1.9s also had the beefed up 2.0L style cranks (I did not think they did)....

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Turns out my assumption above was wrong, in fact the Euro market PD130 and PD150 engines do appear to use the same rod bearing part numbers as the BHW, BGW and 2.0L CR engines. And you're right, the ARL is a PD150 motor. Here's a page on Darkside's site that does a good job of summarizing the applications that share these. https://www.darksidedevelopments.co...lete-rod-bearing-kit-sputter-bearing-kit.html

So it appears the answer to your original question is the ASV crank will not work, and probably no other 90hp or 110hp crank, or any crank from a VE engine, will either. But AVF and AWX, and maybe transverse ARL and ASZ, cranks all would work in a BHW assuming you used a chain drive oil pump and assuming no differences in the crank position sensor chopper wheel vs the BHW (I would be surprised if there were). Don't know if that helps.

Perfect, thank you. That answers all my questions. I didn't even think to check Darkside's site for part applications

And that's exactly why this listing confuses me:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Motorblock-...448870?hash=item33e3849466:g:Q5AAAOSwYARbZsOr

That's interesting. I assume that seller has their facts wrong, particularly since the ASV is a VE engine while the ARL is a PD. With enough effort and fooling around swapping parts someone might be able to put their ARL PD head on an ASV short block and make it work but due to the various VE/PD differences with timing belt path, etc, I doubt it would be easy and from what I remember the crank chopper wheel IS different between PD and VE engines. Then there's the apparent difference in rod size, and putting the smaller 110hp rotating assembly in the bottom of a 150hp engine seems like the wrong direction to go. So from what I see the two short blocks could not be considered interchangeable and that listing could probably stand to be corrected.

d24tdi said:

That's interesting. I assume those listings have their facts wrong, since the ASV is a VE engine while the ARL is a PD. With enough effort and fooling around someone might be able to put their ARL head on an ASV short block and make it work but due to the various VE/PD differences with timing belt path, etc, I doubt it would be easy and from what I remember the crank chopper wheel IS different between PD and VE engines. Then there's the apparent difference in rod size, and putting the smaller 110hp setup in a 150hp engine seems like the wrong direction to go. So from what I see the two short blocks could not be considered interchangeable and those listings could probably stand to be corrected.

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crap, I typed ASV instead of ASZ when I put in the subject for this thread...

GoremanX said:

crap, I typed ASV instead of ASZ when I put in the subject for this thread...

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That's funny, and I had already typed most of my last reply before you added the link to the listing so I never even looked closely enough at it to notice the difference either.

Well, at least we mostly answered your (and partially my) question as a result even if we got there in an indirect way. Looks like the ASZ short block indeed does share its rotating assembly with the ARL, and evidently also the BHW, or at least the crank dimensions -- with the BHW pistons of course being a difference. I think the only remaining part of your original question is whether there may still be meaningful differences in the full short block between the longitudinal versions of the 1.9 PD130 engines (AVF/AWX) and the transverse versions of the 130/150 (ASZ, ARL). Note that that ebay auction you linked only talks about the ARL and ASZ short blocks being compatible with each other and doesn't mention the longitudinal versions. But, searching based on the provided crankshaft part number (038105021K) shows that the crank alone at least is the same between longitudinal and transverse applications, and appears that it would drop into a BHW no problem. It also means this crankshaft is widely used and not hard to find. Searching on german ebay I see a few dozen of them at reasonable prices. https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=038105021K&_sacat=0

So that's some progress on options for these setups, anyway. Thinking out loud, I think running one of these Euro cranks might be the way I decide to go with my swap if I stick with the BHW I have, seems like an easier and safer way of running the 240mm clutch and spacer than resorting to questionable solutions for the crank pilot or trying to not worry about running just a mm or two of contact. In my case, only aiming for around 300 lb-ft, it would also be an easy decision in terms of cost, since the price of one of these cranks would be offset by the opportunity to use a relatively inexpensive stock 240mm DMF and clutch rather than having to buy an expensive beefed-up 228mm setup from Southbend or SRE.

Anyway, thanks for asking this since it gave me the impetus to think about a few things I might not have otherwise, and please share what you decide to do in the end.

this alphabet vomit of engine codes gets confusing ��

I've been running this BHW with an 01E in a B5 A4 for the last 3 years and it's been awesome. It's putting out about 250hp since the most recent rebuild (thanks Franko6 for those new BHW piston rings btw!). But the A4's chassis is slowly wearing out after 20 years (damn Vermont winters), so I've been building a rust-free '05 allroad V8 to serve as a donor recipient for the BHW. Since the allroad weighs about 1000 pounds more than the A4, I'm planning to up the power output to keep the performance at least somewhat similar after the swap. I likely won't be swapping the engine for at least 6 months though, there's still a lot to do on the allroad before it's where I want it to be

I've followed your past threads and gotten a lot of info from them. Sounds like you went through plenty to get the A4 on the road and the engine straightened out, but it's been more than worth it in the end.

My swap recipient is an allroad too, 2001 2.7TT 6-speed. I think your taste for power must be more acute than mine, I'm only aiming for 150-160 hp and ~300tq to move the car reasonably well, I unfortunately have no illusions of it being as quick as it is now with the gas turbo motor (at 16mpg on premium). The goals are just reliability and fuel economy and enough power to climb the mountain passes in my area at the speed limit loaded up in midsummer with the A/C on and without coolant, oil, exhaust temps spiraling out of control. Conservative goals, but maybe still challenging enough to achieve in a car that'll approach 5000 lbs with a load and turning 4 big tires. Your plan for performance sounds like more fun.

I'll be watching how yours turns out and need to eventually get a thread going for mine. You plan to stick with air suspension?

d24tdi said:

...I think your taste for power must be more acute than mine...

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You get used to a certain level of power after driving it that way for a while. At first I though 200+ hp was kinda overwhelming, but then it just became the "new normal" and everything else feels slow. I drove a brand new A5 2.0T a little while back, and I thought I was I was gonna fall asleep from the acceleration compared to mine. Same with the 2020 Q5 2.0T I borrowed from the dealer last week... yawn

d24tdi said:

You plan to stick with air suspension?

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It was converted to coilovers by the previous owner, but I plan to go back to the air springs with some updates to keep it more reliable. Also planning to lift it a fair bit to fit big-ass tires. The timing chain on the V8 is snapped right off, so the engine is dead. That means I got the car for dirt cheap. It's almost completely rust-free and has NOTHING broken in it (other than the engine). Even the cupholders and the emergency kit flap in the hatch are still in perfect shape, UNHEARD OF It'll make a perfect swap recipient once I've got it setup the way I want.