Anyone have info on a AWD conversion?

I know its not easy - but I know its been done before at least once. I think the only thread I seen actually finishing it was a shop that did everything for somebody and didn't give very many details, just a bunch of pictures on a thread.
I know the rear floor pan is different and needs to be welded, you need awd gas tank, rear subframe stuff etc.

Here is why I really want to attempt this:

• I have a b5.5 wagon TDI in really good shape with 100k.

• I already need to convert it to manual - cant stand auto cars.

• I already happen to have a AWD parts wagon I can take the floor and subframe from that is parked right next to my good car. (Also swapping black GLX interior including carpet, trim, etc)

• Illinois doesn't really let you convert gas car to diesel or its very hard to do when it comes to emissions - so just converting a already awd car to tdi is out.

• My brother and father can both weld good (nice tig/aluminum etc), my brother in particular is a really good fabricator and swapped a toyota engine in a mustang for example having made a custom firewall / engine mounts / front frame rails etc. I can also weld ok but not great.

• Both cars have been sitting so it a good time for me to work on them. ( I'm still driving a mkiv golf tdi until I at least convert the wagon to manual )

I really just need information / if anyone has pictures of exactly what to cut out and weld in for the rear floor. Feels like its not going to cost me and I have the skill around and time to get it done I just don't have the confidence to get it started and cut the floor out of my nice wagon. I havn't even been able to find that swap thread in my searching - I believe it was also a euro v6 TDI swap at the same time.

Am I really stupid for even attempting this, should I just live with 2wd? Please someone have some pictures or info! Would love to have a AWD tdi passat wagon.

Edit: Oh I did find the other swap thread at least, I thought it was a v6 tdi + awd swap but looks like the car was already AWD Let the Project Begin... + Operation Installation...

Put the TDI engine in the 4mo gas car (that is what I am going to eventually do), and if you are concerned with legality just use the VIN placard from the diesel.

I would be curious as to why Illinois specifically won't allow a conversion, when they seem to allow everything else (wheels falling off, smashed out lights, ball joints ready to pop out of their sockets, brakes metal to metal, etc.).

It would be a HUGE undertaking to convert a FWD car to 4mo, as it isn't just the floorpan that is different. The entire back end of the car is different, the inner wheel arches, etc.

I like complicated engine swaps. Love them...but unless you're going to yank the body off of the passat and paste it onto a k5 blazer frame (idea?) Find a 4mo with a bad motor or slush box, if you're patient it wont cost you much

oilhammer said:

Put the TDI engine in the 4mo gas car (that is what I am going to eventually do), and if you are concerned with legality just use the VIN placard from the diesel....

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Isn't that potentially a 5 year prison sentence?



jprine, I worked in a body shop when I was a teenager when I lived in northern Illinois. While I was there, that shop routinely cut out smashed rear clips and welded on a majority of used clips. Basically they would just tear the seams apart on the floor pan usually around the rear seat, then measure and cut the pillars if the roof was straight. They would do the same thing with the donor vehicle. Then weld/spot weld and seal the seams together. Weld the pillars and then do any necessary straighten work and paint.
Lot of work, but it seems the insurance companies wanted the repair that way instead of totaling the cars.

Based on that experience, I would think a rear 4 mo clip swap should be possible. Just got to make sure all work is on level ground and measure multiple times to make sure it is correct.

DeliveryValve said:

Isn't that potentially a 5 year prison sentence?



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Don't know. Don't know what disabling EGRs, air pumps, DPFs, etc. would be either, but I have certainly done plenty of that too.

Pretty sure nobody would ever know. Or care.

oilhammer said:

...
Pretty sure nobody would ever know. Or care.

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I guess... Pretty much means you can never sell that car. Your stuck with it forever!


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jprine said:

.....
I really just need information / if anyone has pictures of exactly what to cut out and weld in for the rear floor. ....

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This might help in identifying the panels that can be separated. Here is a .pdf of the B5.5 body EKTA.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/8_body.pdf


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Thanks for the feedback and the body panel link. I guess I'll study that and decide. I did find one guy that did the awd swap in a ghetto way on a gasser - not interested in doing it that way. Not having found anyone that did this in a clean way is really discouraging.

I thought about just doing the VIN swap many times. Figure the only time it could be a issue is in a accident when insurance gets involved not sure what the outcome would be. I'd have to sell my TDI wagon and find a body damage TDI, can't just scrap mint car to steal the engine and vin plate.

If I could get Illinois to accept a diesel conversion i'd probably just go the audi allroad tdi conversion route. Seems like diesel conversion on trucks is common but not so much in illinois and the ones I found were all pre 96 so no emissions testing in the first place. They wont let you get plates until you pass test every 2 years and nobody that works there or at the DNV ever know anything.

Whatever I end up with I plan on being stuck with, I keep all my cars until they die. Still love my mkiv golf after 250k (also has GLX leather).

From the body panel pdf I see what your talking about Oilhammer.

All the rear crossmember supports on the sides and the cross braces, the floor/wheel well, rear wheel arches and the panel for the rear bumper that comes up from the floor. Plus a hand full of other parts that attach to the floor like some rear seat stuff are all different. Exterior and anything up from the floor with the exception of the wheel wells seem to be the same. Guessing this is not really possible to do cleanly should probably just order a fwd 5 sp manual trans for it.

Need to strip my parts car anyway so I guess I'll just see how cleanly I can remove those panels.

How did that fella make the swap look ghetto?

The 4 mo floor pan is pretty intricate to only make that swap and possibly having panel alignment issues. I was trying to suggest earlier that a rear clip swap, which includes the quarter panels and floor pan from the rear seats area to the back bumper would be the easiest.

If you look at the body panel pdf, on illustration 803-50. I would investigate into splitting the floor pan from #7, separate the pan and quarter panel from the rocker panel to keep it intact with the car and then cut the pillars to pull the fwd rear clip out. Then do the same for the 4 mo rear clip and while making sure the pillars are cut the same. Then have your brother weld everything back together.

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Not sure I will swap the panels but I'll post pictures when I cut the rear out of the parts car. I am doing that part at least and will decide once I see how easy it will be to merge them. I'm also stripping the TDI to swap the grey trim to black and carpet so I will have a good look at if I really want to do this or not. I basically would do like you say but just the bottom, no need to mess with body and all the welds would be hidden.

I'm stealing the wheels etc from the car (for snows) so its easier just to cut it up and put in my trash. Chicago garbage is nice and will take anything. I actually did this once before to steal the drivetrain and wiring from a mk3 supra - only takes 2 good sawzall blades to cut a whole car up into small bits.

Can't re-find the link right now but the guy that did it ghetto didn't swap any body panels from a awd car he just cut the floor up where it needed to be and welded in his own panels to fill in the holes and made his own rear subframe mounts etc. It was a B5 gasser sedan.

Different platform but may give you an idea.

http://www.customobsessions.com/2014/11/25/gregs-mk4-awd-convesion/

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3018276

I have a TDI swapped into a formerly W8 passat 4motion. I didn't do it myself and don't have much documentation. There ARE a lot of documented swaps.

Here is one in progress in the B5 forum: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=491221

Here are some more well documented ones:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=337402&highlight=passat+4motion

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457617&highlight=passat+4motion

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=425234&highlight=passat+4motion

All were tdis going into an awd Passat, not converting to awd. That is a silly idea imho...

DeliveryValve said:

I guess... Pretty much means you can never sell that car. Your stuck with it forever!
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Never mind that.....worry more about the insurance company when they figure out what you did after you get into an accident.

While I agree with the others that swapping the TDI into the AWD body shell would the easier route. With that said, I say go for the AWD swap. If you already own both cars and access to both the tools and skills to weld this properly- why not do it? Document it for those interested in following.