Towing with BHW questions

Long story made short. Bought 2 bhw cars. One was too nice to part out...other bad tranny. Was gonna resale the 1st one but i love driving the damn car. After 1000 miles of flawless driving gave a p0741 lock up cel. I cleared it, checked the fluid and was ok but obviously i cant drive it like that or risk killing the tranny. So...5 speed swap time. Cel is gone and not come back but i doubt the 20 degree morning had anything to do with the cel.

I drive 3 miles highway a day...other approx 70 miles a day of travel is mix of rural back roads and city. My hwy commute is morning rush hr meaning 55 to maybe 75mph if lucky.

Here's the big problem..i need to do a lot of towing. It will be a few years before my BHW huge flybridge boat is restored and ready to go so in the mean time when i vacation in the keys or my moms place in myrtle ill have maybe 2500 lbs of boat, trailer and gear with me.

On the 4x4 diesel swaps ive done the final drive was varied depending on if your goal was towing or mpgs. Its not smart to tow 2500 lbs with a car at 80 mph. 70 in the clear is good...60 in traffic is smart.

If i do a European 5 speed will i always need to be down shifting to keep the torque range happy with that load size? With a v6 5 speed ill be running 300 or so more rpms but will probably need to down shift much less. I plan on swapping over to 17 or 18 inch tires for a few reasons, slight rubber overdrive, less side wall for more stability and a slightly wider surface are as ill probably be able to run slightly wider tires.

Check the factory towing capacity of your car and don't exceed it regardless what transmission or tires you use. Is the Passat rated for 2500lbs?

imo000 said:

Check the factory towing capacity of your car and don't exceed it regardless what transmission or tires you use. Is the Passat rated for 2500lbs?

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This has been the challenge for North American cars. VW did not supply any values for towing limits or stated "do not tow". My manual says that the towing number was not available at the time of printing.

The ridiculous comparison is if you have a 2003 Toyota Corolla, you can pull 1,500 lbs. according to Toyota. If you have a 2009 VW Passat TDI, you can't pull anything except a bike rack!

However, look at Britain and the TDI cars are winning awards for their towing capability. "2015 Golf TDI"

Another challenge is the available hitches in North America are generally limited to class 1 (max 1,500 lbs) for our cars. You can get Bosal or Westfalia from some specialized suppliers.

Have a talk with your insurance broker and see what they say about towing without the blessing of the auto manufacturer. Then you can make your own decision.

Im going to base it more closely to that of the mercedes wagons. 2500 is probably a little generous, its probably closer to 2000. Dual axle with trailer brakes.

Im more concerned with happy rpm/torque range.

The towing capacity with a class 1 hitch should be 200 lbs tongue weight and 2000 lbs. The Euro hitch can handle more but handling could be an issue.

I should probably have said one of the e300 wagons(w12?) Not the 7000lbs towing rated amg hybrid SUV cross over looking wagons

Get a UK owners manual if you are worried about published tow ratings.

I often towed 3000+ lbs with my TDI without issue. (6 speed swap/Westy hitch rated at 2000kg).

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That must be fun to take through the Tim's drive thru!

Pulling is one thing, stopping is another. If the trailer is more than half the weight of the vehicle you need trailer brakes.

Scubanero said:

Pulling is one thing, stopping is another. If the trailer is more than half the weight of the vehicle you need trailer brakes.

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100% agreed. I tow 7500 lbs twice a year with an 8000lbs excursion. 7.3 4x4. Dual axle and no trailer brakes. If i did it more than twice a year and less than an hour drive on back roads id invest in brakes.

I tow for the launch and retrieval in the spring and fall.

Uberhare said:

Get a UK owners manual if you are worried about published tow ratings.

I often towed 3000+ lbs with my TDI without issue. (6 speed swap/Westy hitch rated at 2000kg).

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At 2000 to 2500 im not very worried.

Do you find yourself down shifting much with your tranny at highway speeds with that load?

Locally we have many hills....mostly down hill toward the coast...all up hill coming back

Rarely have to downshift. Usually only on a 2 lane road where a transport or something slows me up. Mind you I don't live in a very hilly area.

Im thinking i may just snag that local v6 5 speed 99 passat and toss it in...with tuned ecu. Take a spin a few miles down I85 with boat in tow just to get a feel for rpms...i need all the linkages, pedal and black shifter assy anyway. Figure out what rpm range she handles best in then figure out how far up i need to go from there...fhn or if that's too far a duk. At that point it's r&r. I need an excuse to pull the engine covers off anyways to check the balance shaft situation.

Today i got home and finally installed the new valve cover gasket, the timing belt looks new and the paint on the cam looks fresh but i think it will be good to replace anyways for a sense of security.

Still wish this sedan was a wagon but I'm keeping my eye out for more bhws with bad transmissions and 1.8 5speed wagons.

On another note...i need a vag...but the limits suck. I keep seeing the older unlimited vin Ross vags jump up on fleabay, will ross still support those for new owners?

Id prefer one that reads in a tablet as i have tablets but no laptops but im not seeing any options for doing 2,3 or more

Uberhare said:

Rarely have to downshift. Usually only on a 2 lane road where a transport or something slows me up. Mind you I don't live in a very hilly area.

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Ill do a good bit of that too but much of it is 3 to 4 lane hwy. Still super good info. Ive seen lots of similar sized MB wagons pulling large boats and campers, just not the passats. Most are gas engines which have the wider torque range and higher peak hp rpms but just dont have that cool factor the diesels have.

I'm not going to believe everything i read on the internet (like the iq test that said im a genius) but it said only the 2000 and up passats have the tranny, linkages and axles that will interchange with our BHW...seems like a safe question before i buy a 99 passat for those parts!

Ok...i think i can snag an 02 1.8t wagon (want one anyway) its 2 hours or so away but its cheaper and it does look much nicer cosmetically with the updated front end.

QuickTD said:

I would go with 2001.5 or newer. That is when they got "facelifted" B5 to B5.5. Larger axle flanges on the 5.5 and a better shifter box although the old 98-2001 shifter box will work. You can swap the axle flanges and use the old style axles but if you haven't bought a donor yet I would go with 2001.5 and up. this is especially true if you are getting a real TDI gearbox from Europe, they pretty much all have the larger axle flanges.

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That is mostly true, however the 2001 cars did get the changes in stages, very strange year. Even the early 2001s (that LOOK like a 2000) got a newer style engine, but it is the goofy one, AUG code. Mostly like the AWM from the facelifted 2001.5+, but not exactly. And SOME of those cars with the AUG engine did get the bigger axle flanges on the transmission end and the bigger CV joints/bearings on the outers. There are a bunch of other monthly changes on 2001 cars. It can be difficult to get the correct parts for those.

Like 1998 Beetles and 1999.5 Golfs and Jettas. Lots of strange stuff.

Great info on the passats! i prefer the newer look myself as im sure most everyone else.

I was distracted last night with the amazing hockey game. Seeing MAF back in Pittsburg was bitter sweet, if you didnt tear up at all the welcome home flower signs, tribute video and 2min standing ovation then you are either a caps fan or a flyers fan or a jerk....haha, those are all synonyms! But great seeing him back, just wish it was in a pens jersey, huge win for us against the #2 team in the leage. If Pitt doesn't win cup #6 this year i wouldn't be sad if MAF hoists it for Vegas.


Anyways...the sedan i have now is in amazing shape so I'm going to place an order with frans to get in an fhn or similar mpg friendly tranny for it.

I'm still looking for a BHW wagon with bad transmission to do the towing rig. Thanks to this forum i have found a local duk needing syncros, after looking at the manual provided by another helpful member it doesnt look too hard and i can source the axles, shifter and crap locally to go with it...will be nice to rid my drive way of all gassers although i did spend a bill on less than 36 gallons of diesel this morning...Thats not even a full tank. Needless to say im already missing the passat

Got info on a 1.8t 5 speed 02 i was looking at but rough cloth interior was a deal breaker. Cloth and large wet dogs from the lake/ocean dont mix...nor does wet swimming gear.

I actually prefer the looks of the older B5s... but they were never offered here with a diesel, so I gave up waiting and bought a '98 Jetta. When they finally did offer a diesel B5 here in 2004, I was sickened by the fact that they were all going to be automatics, but bought one anyway.

Closing in on 200k miles, it has been pretty good, I'd still rather row my own gears. But I keep the slushbox properly maintained and it works OK and seems to be a decent match to the engine. Far better with the BHW than with the AWM, that's for sure.

Uberhare said:

Get a UK owners manual if you are worried about published tow ratings.

I often towed 3000+ lbs with my TDI without issue. (6 speed swap/Westy hitch rated at 2000kg).

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The hitch rating isn't really the issue. One can build one to tow 7000lbs if they want. The problem is the ability to stop in an emergency. If your tow vehicle is too light, even with trailer brakes, the situation can get hairy really fast. I've done a few (Eastern Block) towing over the years (overweight trailer with an undersized car) and got away with it but you and I got lucky. If the MTO would catch you towing a Passat with a Passat, you would have a different opinion.

One of my bhws(one going into the boat) had a shot tranny. Wont go into any gear or even attempt to shift. A new tcu was installed due to water leaks in the windshield into the passenger floor in hopes it was a short. It didn't fix the issue

It was a car from nj then driven in costal nc so while there is no major body or frame rust any nicks or scrapes rusted. Hood had a few spots as does the drivers door. The interior is worn too, not garage kept. Im assuming the tranny is shot. In a fwd Honda a broken cv axle will make all gears seem like netural, not sure about the vw. I broke a few with 300whp on autozone cv axles. The s4c (b16) tranny did not have lsd.

On my sedan it was garage kept, im unsure of service history. They kept it clean and nice. I know oil changes were kept up due to window stickers. No idea on the transmission other than the bolts on the pan are clean for 216k and the fluid doesn't look black.

I would do the 300 dollar torque converter but might as well do the manual swap and have her good for a another 200k. The rollers on the lifters look clean and smooth and visually i see no abnormal wear to the cam. All lobes look the same from front to back.

The only issue i have is the clicking when i accelerate quickly or make a tight turn so addressing the axles while out seems a good idea anyway. I hope to have a trouble free car.

imo000 said:

The hitch rating isn't really the issue. One can build one to tow 7000lbs if they want. The problem is the ability to stop in an emergency. If your tow vehicle is too light, even with trailer brakes, the situation can get hairy really fast. I've done a few (Eastern Block) towing over the years (overweight trailer with an undersized car) and got away with it but you and I got lucky. If the MTO would catch you towing a Passat with a Passat, you would have a different opinion.

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Im not worried the dot popo will stop me with an 18 to 20 ft sailboat in a passenger car. I do however want to keep my family safe. I don't think 2000 or 2500 lbs will be an issue with a cautious experienced driver in a wagon with trailer brakes. 7000 lbs and you had better be in a tractor pull or i will assume you're on meth!

imo000 said:

f the MTO would catch you towing a Passat with a Passat, you would have a different opinion.

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Let me ask you this question - would you even flinch passing a Ford F150 towing a F150? Same logic applies.

The 2 biggest factors I find are braking capacity and wind resistance. I hate pulling my cargo trailer on the highway. It's just a 4x6x6 and it to tows worse than the car dolly loaded! Yet no one would even think twice about doing that. If I put the cargo trailer behind the camper, you don't even know it's there.

The time I thought i was done for was getting pulled over (speeding) in my Mk1 GTI with the 16ft speedboat on the back. Officer didn't even bat an eye.

QuickTD said:

I would go with 2001.5 or newer. That is when they got "facelifted" B5 to B5.5. Larger axle flanges on the 5.5 and a better shifter box although the old 98-2001 shifter box will work. You can swap the axle flanges and use the old style axles but if you haven't bought a donor yet I would go with 2001.5 and up. this is especially true if you are getting a real TDI gearbox from Europe, they pretty much all have the larger axle flanges.

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This. The B5.5's seem to be better cars all round. If you don't mind the extra headache of all the model specific parts, start with a W8. Then you get the best brakes and all wheel drive.

I always get a chuckle out of folks' opinions about towing limits.

FWIW, Volkswagen (the people that designed and built the car) sell accessory trailer hitches (it is right in the Volkswagen parts catalog). Not sure about the B5, but the A4 Golf/Jetta Volkswagen hitch is rated at about 3300 pounds. That's right: 3300 pounds. For a car that does not even weigh that much. And the mounted holes for this Volkswagen hitch are already there waiting in the unibody rails of the car. No cutting or drilling, no hacking, no nothing. Just about as easy as installing a new bumper brace, since that is what it takes the place of.

So, it isn't like the car is "incapable" of towing something. If it was, they would not have provided a hitch and holes to mount it.

The difference is common sense, lawyers, and in some cases local laws. I can tell you I have pulled lots of Golfs, Jettas, and [New] Beetles via tow dolly behind my Golf and have never once had a problem. Brakes work fine, but I rarely even use them except to come to a final stop. I just do not get close to anyone, leave lots of room, keep the speed within reason, and pay attention. I've even pulled stuff through mountains. Years ago. The brakes that were on the car then, are still the ones that are on the car now.

I think people who knee jerk react have never actually towed anything, or never tried to tow anything that is perhaps at the upper limits of what the vehicle can safely handle. Or perhaps just unsure of his or her driving skills. Same goes for driving in snow. If you cannot handle it, don't try. But do not assume nobody else can.

There are LOTS of people one here who tow successfully with their A and B segment Volkswagens. Lots of threads on it already. The B5 will hands down be better than the A4 simply because it is bigger, more powerful, heavier, and longer. The Volkswagen style hitch likely has similar tow ratings, maybe a wee bit more.

Aftermarket hitches are possibly a different story, although many have used them, I am not a fan of anything attached to the spare tire pan and tow eye on one side of the car. But if you are OK with that, the rest of the car can handle anything those aftermarket hitches can.

If you are concerned about it, the VAG parts bin will have lots of choices for upgraded brakes. With the B5s, you can even raid the bigger/higher performance Audi parts bin (if you have the coin) and put some seriously massive brakes on.

Uberhare said:

Let me ask you this question - would you even flinch passing a Ford F150 towing a F150? Same logic applies.......

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Probably not but an F150 is a lot heavier and is built to tow heavy things. Yes if you are using common sense and don't get into emergency situations everything will be ok. Most of us on this board are gearheads that have a better understanding how cars work than the average driver and know what can be done with with a car if you are cautious but the MTO doesn't' play by these rules.

Towing is always a big concern. I always wonder how a Dodge Ram can be rated to pull ~20,000 lbs. Certainly the load is going to outweigh the tow vehicle. If the trailer brakes fail, can the tow vehicle stop the package in a timely manner or going down hill?

When we set out to tow our little RV we went overboard with the brakes so the car can stop the trailer very quickly even without the trailer brakes. We did spend too much on the brakes but are pretty happy with the results.