B20 oops

mejpassat · Nov 21, 2017

Well on a road trip this past weekend I stopped at a fill up station suggested by my brother in law.
When I pulled up to the pump, it had the ulsd sticker...I thought great. I filled the Passat up(2015) then as I was putting the nozzle back into the pump I noticed a B20 sticker way over on the other side.
When I filled up, I only needed 14.17 gal of fuel leaving 4.9 of d2 in the tank.
As a side note, I did drive on down the road and added another 3.5 gal of d2.

My question is: was there enough dilution with the existing d2 in the tank to prevent any issues?
And, If you use B20 once is there any issues?
If used continually are there issues?

I finished my drive home of 600 miles without any codes.

tadawson · Nov 21, 2017

There would likely be no issues if you used B20 constantly (and as is OK with VW in some states).

MichaelB · Nov 21, 2017

mejpassat said:
Well on a road trip this past weekend I stopped at a fill up station suggested by my brother in law.
When I pulled up to the pump, it had the ulsd sticker...I thought great. I filled the Passat up(2015) then as I was putting the nozzle back into the pump I noticed a B20 sticker way over on the other side.
When I filled up, I only needed 14.17 gal of fuel leaving 4.9 of d2 in the tank.
As a side note, I did drive on down the road and added another 3.5 gal of d2.

My question is: was there enough dilution with the existing d2 in the tank to prevent any issues?
And, If you use B20 once is there any issues?
If used continually are there issues?
I finished my drive home of 600 miles without any codes.

Talk about paranoid..........such a silly question.Yeah your car will never be the same again and will self distruct within a short time without warnin!

BKmetz · Nov 21, 2017

You stated you drove 600 miles without incident so that implies you were in California and not out of state.
Here is a link to the California regulations concerning biodiesel.

https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/IEC6115C00FD64642824CD8009BD93519?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Some states in the Midwest mandate ratios UP to B20. Most diesel pumps should have a sticker as this.

The ratio varies by each delivery and season. The ratio for this time of year (in the Midwest) should not be higher than B5. No one in the Midwest should be selling B20 during late fall, winter, and early spring. VW warranties its engine and emissions systems to the higher biodiesel ratios in states where it's legally mandated (Illinois, Minnesota, etc).

The California regulations read exactly as every other state than has B20 regulations. I did not see any information of California reducing biodiesel content base on the season, but there would have to be for the mountain areas and Northern California.

Drive more and worry less.

mejpassat · Nov 22, 2017

Reply

MichaelB said:
Talk about paranoid..........such a silly question.Yeah your car will never be the same again and will self distruct within a short time without warnin!

Thanks for your insightful reply Vw says they void the warranty when running B20....so I asked a simple question expecting a civil reply.....NOT FROM YOU THOUGH

mejpassat · Nov 22, 2017

B20

tadawson said:
There would likely be no issues if you used B20 constantly (and as is OK with VW in some states).

I noticed in the manual that only in Illinois is the warranty covered when running B10 or higher)...is there something different that VW does mechanically to the cars in that state?
Thanks for your reply.

BKmetz · Nov 22, 2017

mejpassat said:
I noticed in the manual that only in Illinois is the warranty covered when running B10 or higher)...is there something different that VW does mechanically to the cars in that state?
Thanks for your reply.

VW does nothing different with either equipment or tuning with respect to using biodiesel ratios higher than B10.

mejpassat · Nov 22, 2017

BKmetz said:
You stated you drove 600 miles without incident so that implies you were in California and not out of state.
Here is a link to the California regulations concerning biodiesel.

https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/IEC6115C00FD64642824CD8009BD93519?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

Some states in the Midwest mandate ratios UP to B20. Most diesel pumps should have a sticker as this.

The ratio varies by each delivery and season. The ratio for this time of year (in the Midwest) should not be higher than B5. No one in the Midwest should be selling B20 during late fall, winter, and early spring. VW warranties its engine and emissions systems to the higher biodiesel ratios in states where it's legally mandated (Illinois, Minnesota, etc).

The California regulations read exactly as every other state than has B20 regulations. I did not see any information of California reducing biodiesel content base on the season, but there would have to be for the mountain areas and Northern California.

Drive more and worry less.

The fuel I purchased was in Utah. The article that you linked me to was very informative and appreciated, Thanks.
You have to wonder why VW says in the manual that B20 may cause severe engine damage?

mejpassat · Nov 22, 2017

B20

BKmetz said:
VW does nothing different with either equipment or tuning with respect to using biodiesel ratios higher than B10.

Thanks for the information.

BKmetz · Nov 22, 2017

mejpassat said:
You have to wonder why VW says in the manual that B20 may cause severe engine damage?

The short answer: VW's lawyers have that language in there because VW is not in the fuel business and has no control over where the owner purchases fuel.

Now it gets complicated as there are valid technical reasons to using high ratios of biodiesel.

A longer and more technical answer: During regens the fuel timing is VERY late, after TDC, to have extra fuel in the DPF. This extra fuel is essentially going out the exhaust valves and into the DPF where it combusts and raises the DPF temperature for the DPF regen. A side effect of this late injection is fuel washing down the piston rings and diluting the engine oil.

The same thing happens when 100% D2 is used, but D2 will evaporate out of the engine oil somewhat (not completely). Biodiesel is heavier than D2 and has a higher vaporization point temperature than D2 so more of it stays in the oil causing more dilution than straight D2.

I have never heard or seen anyone having any engine issues with commercial B20 bought at a retail pump. All the damage I have ever seen was with very high biodiesel ratios or home-brewers who left a lot of contaminates in the product.

mejpassat · Nov 22, 2017

Thanks

BKmetz said:
The short answer: VW's lawyers have that language in there because VW is not in the fuel business and has no control over where the owner purchases fuel.
Now it gets complicated as there are valid technical reasons to using high ratios of biodiesel.
A longer and more technical answer: During regens the fuel timing is VERY late, after TDC, to have extra fuel in the DPF. This extra fuel is essentially going out the exhaust valves and into the DPF where it combusts and raises the DPF temperature for the DPF regen. A side effect of this late injection is fuel washing down the piston rings and diluting the engine oil.
The same thing happens when 100% D2 is used, but D2 will evaporate out of the engine oil somewhat (not completely). Biodiesel is heavier than D2 and has a higher vaporization point temperature than D2 so more of it stays in the oil causing more dilution than straight D2.
I have never heard or seen anyone having any engine issues with commercial B20 bought at a retail pump. All the damage I have ever seen was with very high biodiesel ratios or home-brewers who left a lot of contaminates in the product.

Thanks for the info much appreciated and it makes me feel better about filling the tank up with Bio fuel from the major brands.

jrm · Nov 22, 2017

B20 is fine, just throws a regen a bit sooner is all. I personally don't use it as it creates more carbon and loads up the DPF quicker- and when you pour some in a glass jar and put it in the freezer you will have a solid candle

Lightflyer1 · Nov 30, 2017

Be advised that VW also used to include a warning to check the oil level periodically to see if the level was rising (indicating fuel contamination) and to have the oil changed if so. This was for those states that had a high bio content (IL). Having some bio in the fuel is good as it increases the lubricity of the fuel. 2% is enough for this though.

B20 oops

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