News about VW next generation of Tdi engines

pleopard

pleopard

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Volvo's closed loop combustion control is something VW already has in the current CR TDIs.

I wonder when we'll see 3000 bar injection systems on TDIs with electric turbos. :) - evidently not with the EA288 TDI coming in the MkVII.

Does anyone know exactly what type of iron cylinder block material current TDIs use? I've heard that the latest revision of the EA888 TSI engines will be using compacted graphite iron (CGI).
 
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bennybmn

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Daekar said:
Wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to an "electric turbo" as a supercharger?
Click to expand...
Depends how it's setup. F-1 cars (I think) have motor/generators hooked up so they can spin the turbos up to eliminate lag and generate juice on deceleration.
 
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Killabee228

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Well that's what the artical read. But that number is much higher than what we have been getting in the past. What I can remember they were saying like 180hp or 190hp before.
 
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MarcusW

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From this, I gather that the HP increases by 10 but there is no indication of fuel economy although there is a promise of improvement. I guess we will have to wait until it´s in a car.

VW To Debut New Clean Diesel Engine in 2014

Volkswagen announced it plans to introduce a new clean diesel engine starting next year.

The new engine, designed EA288, will make its debut in the 2015 Beetle, Golf, Jetta, and Passat in the second half of 2014. It will eventually replace all current VW and Audi 2.0-liter diesel engines.

The new 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine is turbocharged and uses Bosch common-rail technology as well as direct injection. ...
Click to expand...
 
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kgall

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Did I read in the article that the supercharger will "supplement" the turbocharger?
I've never heard of an engine with both. For all us engineering-challenged folk: How would that work?
 
S

Second Turbo

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What does it really mean, and when?

> ... in the second half of 2014.

Is it known whether that is CY, FY or MY? (i.e. what approximate month)

Is it known what rail pump the EA288 uses?

And does this engine drop into the current chassis?
I would have thought it required MQB.

Of course, anyone avoiding the CR due to HPFP, like me, is not super anxious to be the beta tester for EA288 rev 1.0.
 
JaredC01

JaredC01

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kgall said:
Did I read in the article that the supercharger will "supplement" the turbocharger?
I've never heard of an engine with both. For all us engineering-challenged folk: How would that work?
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It's called twin charging, and it's used in place of a compound turbo setup.

The supercharger is powered by the engine directly, so there's little to no 'lag' before boost... Because of that, it makes good power down low bettor the turbo gets a chance to spool up. Once the turbo spools up, it basically takes over boost.

In setups without a switching flap system, putting the supercharger AFTER the turbo will help force the turbo to spool up by pulling air through it (and reducing the turbo load), and once the turbo is up to speed, it will return the favor removing load from the supercharger. A centrifugal supercharger is pretty typical in that situation as well.

I've contemplated a twin charged setup myself, but I'm not sure it's worth it over a compound setup for an engine as small as ours are.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
 
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keywestbob

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From WARDS Auto yesterday:

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/vw-details-new-diesel-engine-2014

Note paragraph 4.

"The diesel will debut in second-half 2014 in the U.S. on the ’15 Golf, Jetta, Passat and Beetle. New features include a complex :mad: exhaust gas recirculation system that uses both high pressure EGR and a cooled low-pressure EGR; plus integration of the water-cooled intercooler and EGR valve with the intake manifold, which improves throttle response."
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
They had this engine (in semi-cutaway form) at NAIAS in Detroit in January. There are pictures of it here somewhere.

FWIW, the current CR already has high and low pressure EGR, and the Passat already has a liquid cooled intercooler. So this engine doesn't really bring a whole lot new to the mix. What I noticed different is the variable displacement water pump and the integral exhaust bits, as well as what looked to be the integral intake and intercooler. Essentially, the intake IS the intercooler, with its own dedicated coolant loop running through it.

Because of that, they had to swing the oil filter down, like the 2.5L 5 cyl chain engines, the 2.0t belt engine, and the VR6s. So, no more "topside" oil changes.
 
BeetleGo

BeetleGo

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That topside oil change was a good thing! I'm hoping that this engine proves durable. TDI's have a lot riding on this!
 
T

Torque!

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I purchased my car in 2000 and have yet to feel a need to replace it. The 1.9ALH seemed to be a high point for mpg.

With my new auto -> 6 speed swap its better still and would likely match or exceed this new engine for mpg.
My average started climbing from the pre-swap 38. I don't fall below 42 now and can get well over 50 on long trips.
I know there are new models in Europe that do better but so far I feel no pull to try out a new Jetta or Golf.
 
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gulfcoastguy

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The diesel Cruze nuts had better enjoy their day in the sun. I really think that most of these improvements should have been added last year though.
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
jrivers804 said:
Are they going to use adblue, or whatever they want to call it, on this next gen TDI or 7th gen Jettas and Golfs?
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SCR. Yes, they most likely will and it probably will be the norm for most diesels going forward for the foreseeable future. It is an excellent NOx reduction strategy, allows a diesel to do what a diesel does best: run super, super lean. Which means better fuel economy. And because of this, they can run with less PM which means longer DPF life.
 
jackbombay

jackbombay

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SilverMerkur said:
Edmunds has done the "math" for us:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/new...-volkswagen-golf-beetle-passat-and-jetta.html

They are stating 45 to 46 mpg......

Don't we get that already? ;-)
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With an internal combustion engine that makes power with a piston moving up and down there really are no more notable gains to be made in efficiency. Every time a new TDI is going to come out people get all excited and post up things like "I heard it was going to get 50 MPG!" "I heard it was going to get 55 MPG!" "I talked with the guy at the auto show and he said off the record it would get 60 MPG!"


And then the cars show up and they all get low to mid 40s in real world driving.

I will be hanging onto my ALH for many, many more years.
 
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alfon

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I believe the new VW diesel engines will have Urea injection into the
exhaust system as the current 2013 Passat TDI has.

This is a step backward in my opinion. It reminds me of the days
when you had to mix oil and gas for a 2 cycle outboard motor or motorcycle to operate. Also Urea is not cheap will add to the overall cost of operation.

My 2003 Jetta TDI wagon GL model with a 5-speed manual is still getting
way over the EPA for 2003 vehicles. It does not use Urea, only Diesel #2 fuel oil. Always over 50 mpg in everyday real world driving. Last 1248 miles average mpg was 55.3 (U.S.) mpg.

My Jetta has nearly 140,000 miles on the ALH engine. It seem this was the peak of MPG for the VW Diesels at least here in the US. I know there are many more makes and models in Europe that are forbidden here for one reason or another.

Maybe its because I went to public school but why is it that:

The EPA believes a pickup truck that gets 15 MPG is Ok here in the U.S. but a diesel car from Europe that gets 60 MPG is not allowed.

I just can't seem to figure that one out.....
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Regarding jack's post: There are actually several notable gains to be made in efficiency. The issue is "at what cost?" Camless engines opening valves at an infinitely variable rate and time operated by duty-cycled piezoelectric stacks have already proven to substantially boost efficiency. There is even a nice video about a company is Sweden that already has several working prototypes, based on a GM/Opel/Saab engine.

There is also methods of variable displacement, homogenous (sp?) charge run cycles (on gassers), as well as some other clever ways to control air into and out of the piston engine.

We've also not seen the highest possible injection pressures, or the fastest processors, or the most advanced levels of other non engine specific bits that can reduce fuel consumption.

The issue today is, much of the new(er) technology is too expensive to be mass produced at consumer levels, or the technology that IS produced is swayed away from fuel efficiency to power.

Volkswagen has, right now in dealer showrooms in Europe, 1.6L CR TDIs that have the same output as the 1.9L VE TDIs yet use 20% less fuel. And they can move the same weight car or heavier down the road just the same as our ALHs do. All the while doing it in a way that is more environmentally friendly.
 
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oilhammer

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
alfon said:
I believe the new VW diesel engines will have Urea injection into the
exhaust system as the current 2013 Passat TDI has.
.. Also Urea is not cheap will add to the overall cost of operation.
.
Click to expand...
Wrong. It IS cheap. And it DOES save money, by reducing the amount of fuel used, because it allows the engine to run leaner. Why do you think a bigger, heavier Passat uses less fuel than a Jetta? :rolleyes:
 
jackbombay

jackbombay

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oilhammer said:
Regarding jack's post: There are actually several notable gains to be made in efficiency. The issue is "at what cost?" Camless engines opening valves at an infinitely variable rate and time operated by duty-cycled piezoelectric stacks have already proven to substantially boost efficiency. There is even a nice video about a company is Sweden that already has several working prototypes, based on a GM/Opel/Saab engine.

There is also methods of variable displacement, homogenous (sp?) charge run cycles (on gassers), as well as some other clever ways to control air into and out of the piston engine.

We've also not seen the highest possible injection pressures, or the fastest processors, or the most advanced levels of other non engine specific bits that can reduce fuel consumption.

The issue today is, much of the new(er) technology is too expensive to be mass produced at consumer levels, or the technology that IS produced is swayed away from fuel efficiency to power.

Volkswagen has, right now in dealer showrooms in Europe, 1.6L CR TDIs that have the same output as the 1.9L VE TDIs yet use 20% less fuel. And they can move the same weight car or heavier down the road just the same as our ALHs do. All the while doing it in a way that is more environmentally friendly.
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You listed several reasons why efficiency can be increased, and you also listed all the reasons that will prevent it from happening, based on those (the power vs efficiency comment particularly) I stand by my statement that we'll be looking at mid 40s for MPGs for new cars for some time to come.
 
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