brianstrange
Veteran Member
For the record, I have the BRM Motor
Guru's Help please. A5 BRM Engine speed sensor, ECU & grounds
- Thread starter Bob S.
- Start date
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Dan; Thanks for the info. I will compare it to my info later this evening. Anyway, I am just now coming up out of the shop.
All ground connections that I can find from the Bentley list are clean, solid & tight. Bentley's ground list, as suspected is the generic list. I will update the list tomorrow of which grounds are used & which are not on the BRM. Anyway, I jumped temporary redundant grounds all over to no effect. I have the engine compartment opened up and the battery box on the floor to access the entire harness length. Jiggle tests today was negative. No change evident and I was unable to duplicate yesterday's jiggle test.
I do suspect that the ESS is outputting as Vagcom is assigning output from the G28 sensor. But, the tach is at zero after the start. The tach does register @ cranking, then drops to zero, almost immediately followed be the engine start. I am confused if it is the sensors finding ground or the ECU picking up the Cam Sensor.
The ECU does not have an exterior ground, other than that which may occur via the metal bracket. Again, no sign of a ground on the head right side. I suspect it does not exist as w/ the BEW.
In reviewing Bentley’s I did find reference to, but cannot find in the master ground list or in the diagrams:
Ground connection “410 – Sensor ground connector 1 in main wiring harness” in EWD-99, ref. no. 46/19.
Ground connection “131 – Sensor ground connector 2 in wiring harness” in EWD-93, ref. no. 46/8.
Ground connection “383 – Sensor ground connector main wiring harness” in EWD-93, ref. no. 46/8
The codes I am getting are:
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 03G 906 016 AB
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7550
Software Coding: 0050071
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066
1 Fault Found:
000801 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal
P0321 - 000 - - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 102985 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 01:10:19
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 273 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 10.79 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
RPM: 126 /min
Readiness: 1 1 0 0 1
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 03G 906 016 AB
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7550
Software Coding: 0050071
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066
1 Fault Found:
000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal
P0322 - 000 - - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 102985 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 01:13:12
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 903 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.44 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
RPM: 0 /min
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 1
The 000801 / P0321 was the initial code that after the jiggle went to the 000802 / P0322. It has remained solid at the latter code since.
All ground connections that I can find from the Bentley list are clean, solid & tight. Bentley's ground list, as suspected is the generic list. I will update the list tomorrow of which grounds are used & which are not on the BRM. Anyway, I jumped temporary redundant grounds all over to no effect. I have the engine compartment opened up and the battery box on the floor to access the entire harness length. Jiggle tests today was negative. No change evident and I was unable to duplicate yesterday's jiggle test.
I do suspect that the ESS is outputting as Vagcom is assigning output from the G28 sensor. But, the tach is at zero after the start. The tach does register @ cranking, then drops to zero, almost immediately followed be the engine start. I am confused if it is the sensors finding ground or the ECU picking up the Cam Sensor.
The ECU does not have an exterior ground, other than that which may occur via the metal bracket. Again, no sign of a ground on the head right side. I suspect it does not exist as w/ the BEW.
In reviewing Bentley’s I did find reference to, but cannot find in the master ground list or in the diagrams:
Ground connection “410 – Sensor ground connector 1 in main wiring harness” in EWD-99, ref. no. 46/19.
Ground connection “131 – Sensor ground connector 2 in wiring harness” in EWD-93, ref. no. 46/8.
Ground connection “383 – Sensor ground connector main wiring harness” in EWD-93, ref. no. 46/8
The codes I am getting are:
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 03G 906 016 AB
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7550
Software Coding: 0050071
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066
1 Fault Found:
000801 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal
P0321 - 000 - - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 102985 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 01:10:19
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 273 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 10.79 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
RPM: 126 /min
Readiness: 1 1 0 0 1
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 03G 906 016 AB
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7550
Software Coding: 0050071
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066
1 Fault Found:
000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal
P0322 - 000 - - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 102985 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 01:13:12
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 903 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.44 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
RPM: 0 /min
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 1
The 000801 / P0321 was the initial code that after the jiggle went to the 000802 / P0322. It has remained solid at the latter code since.
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Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Dan, thanks for the values. I will compare them with mine tomorrow. My sense is that the BEW & BRM harness are pretty similar. I will pull out my a4 Bentley & compare it to my A5.DanG144 said:
My reading of the diagrams matches yours. There appears to be additional ground connections somewhere along the harness, but I am unable to find where.
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
On my BEW, with the sensor unplugged, VCDS still assigned an RPM to the G28 field. But mine would not run.Bob S. said:
It sounds as if your intermittent wire may have just separated.
If so that may actually be good news. A break is easier to find than an intermittent connection.
When you get done, all repaired, please do me a favor and disconnect your Engine Speed Sensor, and try to start it.
Just to nail down that a BRM will run without an ESS, but a BEW will not.
Brian, I know you have a BRM, and so does Bob S.
In many, many (but not all) instances the BEW and BRM share subsystems on the engine. Since no one else was providing any details, I thought I would try. This approach often works, even with PDs from Europe on different models, and even different manufacturers. But it is not true in every case.
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
I was hoping that was not the case, but you may be correct. I was also beginning to think along the same lines that the intermittent connection finally went.DanG144 said:
brianstrange
Veteran Member
I was wondering....... could failure be happening for a just split second, putting the car into limp mode for an extended period of time, and then return to normal? Or, was my last experience a failed connection for the duration of time that the car was in limp mode?
What causes it to reset? Time? Complete cooldown? X many starts? A full cycle of the computer?
Between my failure and Back to norm status I disconnected my battery ground when checking the connections. After re-connecting the batt, it as it was still in limp mode. After sitting overnight, it was out of limp mode
Just some thoughts.
What causes it to reset? Time? Complete cooldown? X many starts? A full cycle of the computer?
Between my failure and Back to norm status I disconnected my battery ground when checking the connections. After re-connecting the batt, it as it was still in limp mode. After sitting overnight, it was out of limp mode
Just some thoughts.
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
That was my original thinking. Now, I am not so sure.
Dan, both cars I had this trouble with were BRM engines FWIW and IIRC I have reason to believe that the S/W versionof the ECM has something to do with weather or not the engine will start without a CSS signal.
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wolfsburg_de
Ross-Tech AssociateVendor , w/Business number
Per Bob's request, I read through this thread. I haven't seen this situation before and don't have much to add, except to try to catch the car in the act when the ECU isn't seeing the correct signal from the crank sensor, and to check the resistance in the harness at that point. If I hear of any additional information, I'll post it.
fixumrich
The Periodontist
Bob I'm just finishing a filter service on 06 jetta brm .. I did some test's for you. I'll have the info up soon .. Rich !
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
With credit to others, Joe, Dan, & Oliver, I did find a harness issue under the air box. I am taking photos and will update later.
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DanG144
Top Post Dawg
Rich,fixumrich said:
Please post your results even though Bob has found his issue.
Dan
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
Joe,joetdi said:
Thanks for the follow up. I will make a note.
Dan
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
As above, I have found some issues but I am not sure I am at the root yet & will not know till I make a few repairs. So, please keep the info coming.
Dan, based upon what I have found, My BRM was running with no G28, CSS signal (No way based on those wires) and you are correct in that VCDS is assigning an RPM to the G28 block based upon other input data.
Where I am thus far is chafe in the engine harness at one of the harness tabs under the Air Filter box, just forward of the shift weights. There little padding/insulation under those grommets. Simply the split loom. I will go back together a bit better.
Anyway, based upon the color coding, a least 2 of the 3 G28 wires were almost all the way through. A Green/black wire also has chafe. The J248 harness shows several green/black wires & I am not sure which one is involved. I do not want to get ahead of myself & want to repair before opening any more up.
Dan, based upon what I have found, My BRM was running with no G28, CSS signal (No way based on those wires) and you are correct in that VCDS is assigning an RPM to the G28 block based upon other input data.
Where I am thus far is chafe in the engine harness at one of the harness tabs under the Air Filter box, just forward of the shift weights. There little padding/insulation under those grommets. Simply the split loom. I will go back together a bit better.
Anyway, based upon the color coding, a least 2 of the 3 G28 wires were almost all the way through. A Green/black wire also has chafe. The J248 harness shows several green/black wires & I am not sure which one is involved. I do not want to get ahead of myself & want to repair before opening any more up.
fixumrich
The Periodontist
Cam sensor ..
1. Black/white
2. green/purple
3. Brown/green 0.0 full continuity to Cylinder head ..
Engine speed sensor..
1. black/red
2. purple
3. Brown/blue 0.0 full continuity to oil pan as ground ..
These were just done with the engine off will I had some down time .
Pin continuity test were as follows .. #1 and # 2 on both sensors had no continutity to ground .. When I tested 1,2,3 in the wire harness between each other there was zero continutity.. . The 1,2 pins on both sensors probally run on wave signals via the # 3 pin GND.. Just my theory.. Only mesuring them with a home made shunt and a oscillascope..
Bob I'm glad you figured this out . I know you were ready to blow this thing up.. Best of luck! Rich ..
1. Black/white
2. green/purple
3. Brown/green 0.0 full continuity to Cylinder head ..
Engine speed sensor..
1. black/red
2. purple
3. Brown/blue 0.0 full continuity to oil pan as ground ..
These were just done with the engine off will I had some down time .
Pin continuity test were as follows .. #1 and # 2 on both sensors had no continutity to ground .. When I tested 1,2,3 in the wire harness between each other there was zero continutity.. . The 1,2 pins on both sensors probally run on wave signals via the # 3 pin GND.. Just my theory.. Only mesuring them with a home made shunt and a oscillascope..
Bob I'm glad you figured this out . I know you were ready to blow this thing up.. Best of luck! Rich ..
DanG144
Top Post Dawg
Actually I think we should be saying that VCDS is REPORTING an rpm, not assigning an rpm.
I would suspect (be willing to bet) that the substituting of signals is taking place in the ECU/ECM. I just wish my ECM would run without a Crank engine speed signal.
Chafing of wires is a fairly frequent problem with VW's. Several folks that I have worked with across the pond have had issues with chafed wires.
I would suspect (be willing to bet) that the substituting of signals is taking place in the ECU/ECM. I just wish my ECM would run without a Crank engine speed signal.
Chafing of wires is a fairly frequent problem with VW's. Several folks that I have worked with across the pond have had issues with chafed wires.
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Dan; I stand corrected. I wonder if Jeff could modify the BEW program so that it will run w/o the crank sensor as does the BRM.
Rich, My Brown/blue was down to one strand remaining. Green corrosion residue evident. Red/black chafed and Violet stressed looking (I have not opened this up yet).
I do plan on going futher up & down the harness. My sense is that engine harness chafed in this area may turn out to be an A5 problem area.
Rich, My Brown/blue was down to one strand remaining. Green corrosion residue evident. Red/black chafed and Violet stressed looking (I have not opened this up yet).
I do plan on going futher up & down the harness. My sense is that engine harness chafed in this area may turn out to be an A5 problem area.
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
In looking at mine... where the harness exits the tray under the air filter box, the harness support therein, the length of harness, harness size, the distance bewteen the next harness support attachment @ the starter soliniod, and movement between the chasis and engine, and the minimal chafe protection... I would not be suprised if we read more of this type problem. It is the luck of the draw as to which conductors chafe (lots of important conductors in that harness), but I suspect chafe is inevitable. Some type of strain relief of chafe protection would be appropiate IMHO. I only have 63.9K miles. I drive fast, but not hard and on relitively smooth roads.
brianstrange
Veteran Member
Bob, well, what do ya know. After reading your post...... Ta Dah!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=188951&l=d8957&id=1553462656
What are the chances VW is going to help us out??? I'd prefer not to solder & heat shrink.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=188951&l=d8957&id=1553462656
What are the chances VW is going to help us out??? I'd prefer not to solder & heat shrink.
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Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Exact same area. 
Sounds like many of the same conductors as well.
Sounds like many of the same conductors as well.brianstrange
Veteran Member
Damaged wires
This is the damage that I have. I don't see anything broken thru, but there was some bare wire rubbing that went wire to wire.
The following 8 wires showed damage:
Twisted: Gray\White & Gray\Red
Twisted: Brown\Lt.Blue & Red\Lt.Blue
Black\Red
Violet
Brown\Blue
Brown\Green
All of the above wires were the smalles size in that harness (26 awg maybe?)
This is the damage that I have. I don't see anything broken thru, but there was some bare wire rubbing that went wire to wire.
The following 8 wires showed damage:
Twisted: Gray\White & Gray\Red
Twisted: Brown\Lt.Blue & Red\Lt.Blue
Black\Red
Violet
Brown\Blue
Brown\Green
All of the above wires were the smalles size in that harness (26 awg maybe?)
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Bentley's lists ithe smaller wires as .35mm. Googling a gage conversion gives me 27 as the closest size. 26 awg is listed as .4mm. 28awg is .32.
I have some Beldon 24 awg in the shop but I will try to find 26 to try to match as close possible.
I have some Beldon 24 awg in the shop but I will try to find 26 to try to match as close possible.
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Brain, I was just down showing my teenage son the problem. In doing so, I looked at the inside of the split loom. The chafe pattern there is readily apparent and it is easy to understand how the smaller gage wires external to the larger twisted conductors in the bundle center were sacrificed. Chafe protection inside that loom is needed during reassembly. I may switch to a different loom style.
brianstrange
Veteran Member
VW should step in on this one. The injector wires could cause a fire for sure.
Dimitri16V
Top Post Dawg
Don't hold your breathbrianstrange said:
Guys, on the one car that I fixed, after repairing wires I used very small ty raps every inch or so. The has been in the shop several times and I always check it. It appears to be ok so far. It appeared to me that the rocking of the engine was the major factor. I also did the best I could to give it more slack in the harness. This is joetdi's brother. He tell me everything. Ha HA
brianstrange
Veteran Member
Nhtsa
This deserves complaints to NHTSA. Fire and loss of power, control are good reasons for recall
This deserves complaints to NHTSA. Fire and loss of power, control are good reasons for recall
Bob S.
Top Post Dawg
Joe, Thanks again.