What if I don't want a buyback or modification?

There's a saying that I heard on Saturday Night Live...I'm sure it's old and common, but that's where I heard it: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Since VW has not offered to address the original fraud, and has been mandated in a far shorter space of time than model year auto development to do what they were not able to do in 10+ years of R&D on the TDIs, it is very, very unlikely that this Phase 2 "fix" came at the "eureka" moment. That means that the likelihood of an extremely detrimental trade-off (i.e., performance, reliability, durability, cost of maintenance/service, etc. for emissions numbers) for all three generations of the TDI released since 2008 is very high. Time will tell.

Sounds like another "VW lied" and I can't get over it excuse. They have addressed the original fraud through the courts and lost and are out billions of dollars for it along with a few arrests so far. How many do you want hung before you are satisfied they have paid enough? If I were you I would have dumped that pollution spewing fraud of a car you own long ago. That would show them.

I believe they knew all along what should have been done, they just cut costs and did the cheaper thing instead. It is a known technology as MB was able to manage it okay, where cost wasn't as much of a concern. This being the case, in my opinion, it wouldn't take that much to find the correct solution. It also had to pass by the EPA, CARB and other unfriendly entities as well before getting approval. I don't think they would let some slip shod solution pass when they were actually trying to nail them for fraud in the first place.

You are entitled to your opinion though it sounds a little biased against VW since you don't think they have even addressed the original issue yet.

Had a great road trip today out to the end of Long Island NY in my 2010 Golf TDI! I live near Philadelphia, you know, home of the Super Bowl Champs! My car has the fix and over 160K miles and it's still a great car! It still feels like new to me!

Set a new mileage record coming home from VA last weekend. The car has only had the phase-1 fix. I'll get the phase-2 eventually.



I'm keeping my TDI.

Lightflyer1 said:

Sounds like another "VW lied" and I can't get over it excuse. They have addressed the original fraud through the courts and lost and are out billions of dollars for it along with a few arrests so far. How many do you want hung before you are satisfied they have paid enough? If I were you I would have dumped that pollution spewing fraud of a car you own long ago. That would show them.

I believe they knew all along what should have been done, they just cut costs and did the cheaper thing instead. It is a known technology as MB was able to manage it okay, where cost wasn't as much of a concern. This being the case, in my opinion, it wouldn't take that much to find the correct solution. It also had to pass by the EPA, CARB and other unfriendly entities as well before getting approval. I don't think they would let some slip shod solution pass when they were actually trying to nail them for fraud in the first place.

You are entitled to your opinion though it sounds a little biased against VW since you don't think they have even addressed the original issue yet.

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I think you're completely misunderstanding my post.

I am not claiming that VW did not address their fraud against the EPA in the courts. I am not claiming that the EPA did not demand some restitution for people who choose to take part in a likely detrimental modification of their vehicles to get the vehicles closer to CAA compliance. I am not claiming that VW hasn't paid this restitution to car owners who volunteer for the said modifications.

My post is in reference not to the fraud committed against the EPA, but rather the fraud committed against every single VW customer who purchased a TDI believing they were getting an EPA certified vehicle. That has never been addressed by VW to all their TDI customers in the USA. VW maintains to their customers that they did nothing wrong. That's the issue. Confusing the two frauds makes rational conversation impossible.

I don't personally care whether all or none of the decision makers behind the dieselgate go to prison or not. I don't want VW's money, either. I really want to be left alone to enjoy my TDI when I drive it. However, we all know that due to the fickled nature of people, some of us who enjoy unmodified TDIs may end up threatened with the prospect of the issuing authorities refusing to register our vehicles...regardless of what the settlement says. What settlement attorney will protect those of us who keep our vehicles stock five years down the road? There will be no money in it.

You can believe what you want, but no small diesel engine manufacturer knows how to do what VW claimed to be doing from 2008-2015. VW is not even claiming to be able to meet the emissions certifications that were originally on these vehicles. That's pretty much proof that regardless of what any individual person believes, VW does not know what should have been done.

I have no plans to get rid of my TDI. It is safe and legal to drive according to the EPA, even though it is falsely certified.

Miss_Athanatos, I'm not sure what axe you're trying to grind here, but I think several statements in your post need clarification.

First, VW did tell customers that it they deceived them and betrayed their trust. And they both apologized and compensated customers (generously, in my opinion) for it, court ordered or not.

Second, it's not altogether clear whether VW or Bosch was responsible for the "cheat" technology, but other manufacturers were using similar, although not identical, schemes to maximize performance and fuel economy while meeting their interpretation of the letter of the emissions law, both in Europe and in the US. Mercedes with its cold weather tuning maps, Chrysler/Bosch/VM Motori with its towing maps, and so on. Not outright defeats, but similar.

Third if by writing "no small diesel engine manufacturer knows how to do what VW claimed to be doing" you're referring to meeting emissions regulations with 2.0L diesel, look at BMW. They've had a 2.0L diesel in the North American market since 2014. No one, to my knowledge, has questioned whether or not it meets EPA standards.

Finally, your unfixed car is not EPA compliant. A fixed one is, by court agreement. I struggle with the logic of feeling betrayed by VW lying to you, but simultaneously being unwilling to let VW implement a fix that would make your car emissions legal based on the standards negotiated by the court. I recognize the possibility, however remote, of decreased durability as a result of the fix, but without the fix emissions warranty I'm betting your cost of operation will be higher over the next 150K miles than it would be with the fix. One major component failure outside of warranty and you're under water.

If you're adamant about keeping your car in it's non-compliant form, I respect that. And my own opinion is that the risk of you at some point being denied registration renewal is very low. I don't think states deserve that much credit. To my knowledge, Kansas doesn't even check emissions hardware: I know of a couple of people driving diesels in that state with all emissions hardware deleted with no regulatory issues.

I like my '15 GSW. I plan to keep it for at least as long as I've owned my '02 (16 years). I don't think that will be any problem.

That is what I thought. VW lied and I can't get over it no matter what. Who are you to hold VW accountable for lying to everyone else? Do you practice this grudge holding in your personal life as well? Do you never forgive anyone who ever told you even the smallest lie? As stated above this issue has been dealt with and is over for the most part. There are those who will never let it lie no matter what. I guess you are one of those people. Fortunately they seem to be few or at least have gotten over it and moved on.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

<snip>. To my knowledge, Kansas doesn't even check emissions hardware: I know of a couple of people driving diesels in that state with all emissions hardware deleted with no regulatory issues.
<snip>

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No emissions are checked here in IL, either. Actually— I can't testify to what may be going on at a county /city level up in Cook or the collar counties (I try to think about them as little as possible....), but here downstate, nada.

NB: not-on-point comment: we are doing buyback, since we've about chosen a new car, probably sometime next month.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

If you're adamant about keeping your car in it's non-compliant form, I respect that. And my own opinion is that the risk of you at some point being denied registration renewal is very low. I don't think states deserve that much credit. To my knowledge, Kansas doesn't even check emissions hardware: I know of a couple of people driving diesels in that state with all emissions hardware deleted with no regulatory issues.

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I've checked with some of the "trusted Gurus" out there about the emissions issue (since I'm getting ready to move to KC Kansas myself) - no problems at this point. This makes me very happy on my 2000 Beetle, and I'm intending on getting the phase 2 on my Golf either once I get there or before I leave NC.


I wouldn't have any issues not doing the fix on your affected TDI, but the additional warranty is too good to pass up (IMO) .