"507, 505, Amsoil, blah blah blah"....but what VISCOSITY?

tdiatlast said:

Exactly who are you preaching to?????

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The truth is my religion. I'm irritated by people who talk nonsense about subjects they don't know anything about.

-mickey

Meet : Just covers exactly the min. req. ... Nothing more . 5 out of 10 , literally base grade .

Exceed: Passes the test but we not know how easy . 6+ out of 10 .
How much + , unknown .

Recommended : This is what manufacturers offer . Easy choice and properly pass the tests .7+ out of 10 . How much + , unknown .

Approved :The sneaky one . Approved can be the 5/10 or the 10/10 . Our choice what we ll use if not going by the book .

Reviewing the technical data on the Amsoil AEL makes it appear to be more aligned with a VW 505.01 oil than a 507.00 oil. The asterisk on their data sheet also leads to the belief that it isn't carrying formal approval.

FowVay said:

Reviewing the technical data on the Amsoil AEL makes it appear to be more aligned with a VW 505.01 oil than a 507.00 oil. The asterisk on their data sheet also leads to the belief that it isn't carrying formal approval.

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Check out my link in post #27. No asterisk. I don't think they could get away with claiming manufacturer approvals they don't have.

New Mickey said:

"Meets the specifications of" means that the oil manufacturer is saying it meets the specifications.

"Manufacturer approval" means the CAR manufacturer specifically states that the oil meets their standards.

Nobody on this site knows exactly how either of those things are determined.

And, as always: I challenge anyone to show me any of the thousands of TDIs running Amsoil over the past quarter century that has been damaged by Amsoil in any way.

-mickey

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"Manufacturer Approval" - we DO know what this means with VAG - it means the oil manufacturer submitted a required sample size to VW (and some required dollars), who sent it to some lab under contract, and it passed the specifications for that VW spec.

If you're trying to be an AMSOIL shill - I'd recommend you cease and desist. If this is why why you're the "New Mickey" - you're not starting off on the right foot....

Wasn't this the thread that was created to control the "Amsoil vs. THE WORLD" circuitous arguing????

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=232711&page=148

Asterick or not this pretty much tells it all.

*All trademarked names and images are the property of their respective owners and may be registered marks in some countries. There is no affiliation or endorsement claim, express or implied, made by their use. AMSOIL products are formulated to meet or exceed the performance requirements set forth by the manufacturers of all applications shown/listed here.

O

James & Son said:

Asterick or not this pretty much tells it all.
*All trademarked names and images are the property of their respective owners and may be registered marks in some countries. There is no affiliation or endorsement claim, express or implied, made by their use. AMSOIL products are formulated to meet or exceed the performance requirements set forth by the manufacturers of all applications shown/listed here.

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I read that to mean they are not affiliated or endorsed by the manufacturer. Ie the Castrol advertising on my tdi oil cap, or mobil1 advertising on my uncle's Porsche.

turbobrick240 said:

O

I read that to mean they are not affiliated or endorsed by the manufacturer. Ie the Castrol advertising on my tdi oil cap, or mobil1 advertising on my uncle's Porsche.

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May be I should reconsider. If I had a common rail I definitely would want a certified oil. Maybe amsoil realized that and went for certification. But they really have not put any effort in explaining that to the consumer if they thought it was that important.

Edit: To me the manufacturing approval approach is just a sly means of saying, we meet or exceed.
Edit: because i have a 2006 the oil specs are more important to me if i decided I wanted to run a 507 oil because emission warranty is secondary to cam protection. If I had a common rail I would want certification for emission warranty.

The Amsoil European 5w-30 oil is now on VW's Approved list for VW 504.00/507.00. Their 5w-40, Full SAPS European Formula oil is now approved for VW 502.0/505.0. Note that in neither case was the formulation changed in terms of basestock or additive chemistry.

The VW 507.00 oils are required for engines with DPF's. For all previous engines I'd highly recommend one of Amsoils "Max Duty" diesel oils that carry the API CK-4/SN designation. The 5w-30/0w-40/5w-40 and even the 15w-40 (for mild to hot weather), will all work better than any VW 505.00 or 505.01 Spec lubricant....

TS

New Mickey said:

The truth is my religion. I'm irritated by people who talk nonsense about subjects they don't know anything about.
-mickey

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Well stop talking nonsense then. Amsoil does NOT have VW approval. Nowhere did they claim that they have actual VW 507 approval. They get around that fact with this creative little snake oil marketing statement.

Copied directly from the European formula data sheet:
AMSOIL European Car Formula Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered
FOR USE IN GASOLINE OR DIESEL VEHICLES THAT REQUIRES ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING SPECIlCATIONS

Engineered by whom you might ask? Amsoil of course. Approval? Amsoil's standard "because we say so" approval.

Ol'Rattler said:

Well stop talking nonsense then. Amsoil does NOT have VW approval. Nowhere did they claim that they have actual VW 507 approval. They get around that fact with this creative little snake oil marketing statement.

Copied directly from the European formula data sheet:
AMSOIL European Car Formula Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered
FOR USE IN GASOLINE OR DIESEL VEHICLES THAT REQUIRES ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING SPECIlCATIONS

Engineered by whom you might ask? Amsoil of course. Approval? Amsoil's standard "because we say so" approval.

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Did you read Tooslick's post? Amsoil now has products with VW 505 and 507 approvals. And apparently they didn't have to change the formulation at all to receive those approvals.

turbobrick240 said:

Did you read Tooslick's post? Amsoil now has products with VW 505 and 507 approvals. And apparently they didn't have to change the formulation at all to receive those approvals.

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Yes I did. I did not see anything to support his claims other than an Amsoil sales pitch. Where is this elusive VW approval list? The most recent I could find was this (Through MY 2013): https://www.anciravolkswagen.com/blogs/949/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Approved-Oil-List.pdf

I found a list that did list Amsoil on it but it did not appear to be an actual Audi/VW publication.

Ol'Rattler said:

Yes I did. I did not see anything to support his claims other than an Amsoil sales pitch. Where is this elusive VW approval list? The most recent I could find was this (Through MY 2013): https://www.anciravolkswagen.com/blogs/949/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Approved-Oil-List.pdf

I found a list that did list Amsoil on it but it did not appear to be an actual Audi/VW publication.

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Ratter you are blind https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...ropean-car-formula-5w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/

I know where Ol'rattler is coming from he wants to see Amsoil on the official VW listing of approved oils.
I trust Tooslick and if you do look at all the amsoil european diesel oils they are now listed as approved for 507, 505.01 and 505.00 certification (I accept to VW specs.).

Tooslick also states even though they have been approved it did not require any formulation changes.

This quote is also very to the point.

The VW 507.00 oils are required for engines with DPF's. For all previous engines I'd highly recommend one of Amsoils "Max Duty" diesel oils that carry the API CK-4/SN designation. The 5w-30/0w-40/5w-40 and even the 15w-40 (for mild to hot weather), will all work better than any VW 505.00 or 505.01 Spec lubricant....

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Remember Tooslick is very strategic in his posts( as to not cause amsoil wars) so includes the .....

API CK-4/SN designation

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Amsoil now has to answer why it bothered to approved these oils. Has it put out any statement saying why it would go against its standard of not certifying?

...Engineered to meet European manufacturers' specifications...

...APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL European Car Formula 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered for use in gasoline or diesel vehicles that require any of the following specifications


"Meet : Just covers exactly the min. req. ... Nothing more . 5 out of 10 , literally base grade .

Exceed: Passes the test but we not know how easy . 6+ out of 10 .
How much + , unknown .

Recommended : This is what manufacturers offer . Easy choice and properly pass the tests .7+ out of 10 . How much + , unknown .

Approved :The sneaky one . Approved can be the 5/10 or the 10/10 . Our choice what we ll use if not going by the book ."

If not one of these four words on bottle for directly point the manufacturer specs , its not 507 . Period . And so long its not any ... Engineered is something that none of manufacturers can legally lawsuit them that s why they use it ..

MichaelB said:

Ratter you are blind https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...ropean-car-formula-5w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/

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No, not blind really. Read the fine print. I do like these kind of threads because they are great for increasing your knowledge on things.

Oil approval and licensing by car manufacturers is a a fairly new thing in the oil industry. We know that VW does it as well as MB, BMW and more recently these guys http://www.gmdexos.com.

Except for auto manufacturer approvals, oil testing and qualification etc is done strictly by the oil manufacturer. For Europe, the specifications are written by this agency: http://www.acea.be/news/article/acea-oil-sequences-2016 , and oil is self-certified by the oil manufacturer.

PD engines are the oddball as it were. My 2006 can only use VW 505.01 were the gassers can use VW Spec or ACEA-A3 Spec. So in the 2006 gasser instance, all the VW approval means is that it meets the same requirements of the self certified ACEA oils.

So probably, the Spec to look for in your owners manual is the ACEA Spec if there is one and just use that.

Ol'Rattler said:

"No, not blind really. Read the fine print. "

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Amsoil dudes are like a voodoo mage that can cure snake bites with herbals around their backyard . But can a voodoo mage invited to an official worldwide medical congress with all the respectful doctors there ...???

( I'm laughing so hard right now ...)

This post was was off topic and not productive so I "fixed" it.

It's just motor oil- buy it or don't buy it. No point in getting fixated on how great or terrible it is.

turbobrick240 said:

It's just motor oil- buy it or don't buy it. No point in getting fixated on how great or terrible it is.

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^^^^^^Agreed^^^^^

You guys are right. It's not really rocket science, is it?

I did learn something though and that's the significants of the European ACEA Spec. If your owners manual list that Spec and you follow the dismal guidelines in the owners manual for weight, you are golden as far as the warranty is concerned.

I could see us going for a thread lock so keeping the thread proactive is a good thing. Fixed my last post..........

I'll type this in slowly so that even the more intellectually challenged, European Forum members can understand it....������

The Amsoil 5w-30, European Formula IS on VW's Approved List for VW 504/507
The Amsoil 5w-40, Classic European Formula IS on VW's Approved List for VW 502/505.00

The Amsoil 5w-40, Mid-SAPS European Formula is recommended for VW 502/505.01, but is NOT on VW's Approved List
The Amsoil 0w-40, Classic European Formula is recommended for VW 502.00/505.00, but is NOT on VW's Approved List - even though it has the same additive chemistry as their 5w-40 that is approved for these Apps (that's strictly a business decision, since the 0w-40 is fully PAO based, and so this would require duplication of all the engine tests)

For what it's worth, the 5w-30 and the 0w-40 have the best extreme temperature properties of these four oils and would be my choice if you want to stick with a VW Spec oil. However as I previously mentioned, the general consensus is that the latest API Spec, HD diesel oils (current "CK-4/SN" ), will work even better in older TDI Motors not requiring a low ash oil. This is particularly true of the PD engines which really need an xw-40 oil, the thicker the better (in terms of HTHS viscosity).

If you still have questions, please feel free to email me @ Twoslickusa@netscape.net

Thanks...

TS

Perhaps you should read slower. Amsoil says that they recommend that the European formula can be used in applications that require car manufacturer approval, not that they actually have the car manufacturers approval. Why is that so hard to understand?

I did find a non official version (Photo shop?) of the approval oils list that did show Amsoil on it. Where is this elusive official Audi/VW approved oils list?

TooSlick said:

The Amsoil 5w-30, European Formula IS on VW's Approved List for VW 504/507
The Amsoil 5w-40, Classic European Formula IS on VW's Approved List for VW 502/505.00
TS

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Amsoil IS NOT enlisted in any VW approved oil list in internet EVER . Is not certificated from any oil industry tests and their tests are not recognized yet . IF any from Amsoil employees dare to say this , please do it IN PUBLIC VIDEO and post it here .....I wanna see how many law problems Amsoil will have after this ...

VwPassion said:

Amsoil IS NOT enlisted in any VW approved oil list in internet EVER . Is not certificated from any oil industry tests and their tests are not recognized yet . IF any from Amsoil employees dare to say this , please do it IN PUBLIC VIDEO and post it here .....I wanna see how many law problems Amsoil will have after this ...

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TooSlick is right. You are wrong. Amsoil makes good, if somewhat expensive oils. Get used to it.

turbobrick240 said:

TooSlick is right. You are wrong. Amsoil makes good, if somewhat expensive oils. Get used to it.

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Show me where i did say that Amsoil make bad oils . I say that Amsoil have no certificated oils , that means that anyone that want to go by the book and keep warranty cannot use them . Their oils are not have any certificated chemical approval from any automobile industry . On other hand if we are talking out of warranty ,no matter at all because out of warranty anyone can use any oil , depend the wallet . So based on my threads , i am still right until you reply with facts that i did say somewere that Amsoil have bad oils (which i did not say it .. ) .

Learn to read carefully before put words in other people mouths.

I did find this VW TSB oil list that has Amsoil listed on page 14. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=0ahUKEwipnOnGyITXAhVBKWMKHZeYCYg4ChAWCDswAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfmk7.com%2Fforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D11038&usg=AOvVaw07q9UtDOi-TXFdzo4QlsdI

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=319611&postcount=18

mu3098 said:

I did find this VW TSB oil list that has Amsoil listed on page 14. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...mentid=11038&usg=AOvVaw07q9UtDOi-TXFdzo4QlsdI

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Try to contact VW by email and you'll see what they'll answer for Amsoil....

VwPassion said:

Show me where i did say that Amsoil make bad oils . I say that Amsoil have no certificated oils , that means that anyone that want to go by the book and keep warranty cannot use them . Their oils are not have any certificated chemical approval from any automobile industry . On other hand if we are talking out of warranty ,no matter at all because out of warranty anyone can use any oil , depend the wallet . So based on my threads , i am still right until you reply with facts that i did say somewere that Amsoil have bad oils (which i did not say it .. ) .

Learn to read carefully before put words in other people mouths.

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I know English is a bit of a struggle for you, but you are the one who needs to read more carefully. I never said that you claim Amsoil products are not good. I said you are wrong in claiming they have no VW approvals. Again, you are wrong- they do have products with VW approvals. Just because you don't seem capable of finding them on the internet does not change the fact that the approvals exist.