"507, 505, Amsoil, blah blah blah"....but what VISCOSITY?

New Mickey

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My 2015 Passat owner's manual vaguely mentions two different motor oil viscosities. I find it hard to believe they're so uptight about "507.00 or else" but don't even seem to care much what WEIGHT of oil to use.

Thoughts? I want to obsess about it, but I'm not sure which one to obsess about.

-mickey
 

bmwM5power

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My 2015 Passat owner's manual vaguely mentions two different motor oil viscosities. I find it hard to believe they're so uptight about "507.00 or else" but don't even seem to care much what WEIGHT of oil to use.

Thoughts? I want to obsess about it, but I'm not sure which one to obsess about.

-mickey
so what did they mention?
 

dieseldorf

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Thoughts? I want to obsess about it, but I'm not sure which one to obsess about.

-mickey
Take some time to read the spec. ;) They specify a minimum viscosity as part of the criteria. The VAG oils tend to be "thick" oils.
 

New Mickey

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Take some time to read the spec. ;) They specify a minimum viscosity as part of the criteria. The VAG oils tend to be "thick" oils.
I quote the owner's manual:

"Your engine was filled with a high-quality, "synthetic" all-season engine oil that meets strict Volkswagen oil quality standards and has a viscosity grade of SAE 5w40, or SAE 5w30. You can use this oil for normal driving in all temperatures."

A chart shows: "Diesel engines......VW 507.00" No diesel-specific viscosity recommendation.

I've owned a lot of cars, including VWs, and I've never seen an owner's manual that doesn't specify a single grade of oil, or provide a temperature-related chart of what viscosities to use. I also find their statement that they filled the engine with "one or the other" to be odd. Don't they know? Weren't they there? "Whatever" seems like an un-German specification.

What I DO know is that the viscosity that is correct for a given engine depends largely on internal tolerances. Thicker doesn't necessarily mean "better protection" if it can't get to where it needs to be. I'm curious what the engineers intended, and why that information isn't being conveyed to consumers. (We shouldn't have to "research" beyond reading the owner's manual, right?)

Further adding to the oddity: The entire section of the manual is chock full of persnickety, anal-retentive German detail about EXACTLY how to read the dipstick, and several paragraphs about the importance of using EXACTLY the right oil lest the world spin off its axis. That sounds like VW. Did the folks in Tennessee add the "whatever" language?

So what are y'all using? 5w40 or 5w30? And why?


-mickey

p.s. As with all things "oil" it's probably just arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. But that's what gearheads do.
 
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New Mickey

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It's also possible that they MEANT to say that the diesel is one viscosity and the gasser is the other. If that is the case they entirely failed to say so clearly.

-mickey
 
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turbobrick240

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All 507 oils are either 5w30 or 0w30. I don't use 507 myself, but it is a pretty good spec.
 

dieseldorf

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A chart shows: "Diesel engines......VW 507.00" No diesel-specific viscosity recommendation.
If it meets 507.00 or whatever VAG spec, it meets the minimum thickness criteria whether 0W30 or 15W50. Again, all the VAG oils tend to be "thick" in the bigger scheme of oil viscosities today. They are remarkably similar. They are not energy-conserving.

Look at the spec. The thickness criteria has been defined and is verified by VAG's testing.
 

New Mickey

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There is a discussion on this subject elsewhere in the Forums which includes an example of an Audi TDI manual insisting on a "5w40 meeting 507.00". Apparently no such animal exists.

The owner's manual does not contain details about 507.00. No owner can reasonably be held responsible for what isn't in the manual.

My best guess, based on research that goes far beyond what any customer should have to do, is that I must use 507.00 AND for practical purposes that limits me to a 5w30. I guess I'll take that as my answer. But it would be nice if the people who wrote the manuals actually knew what they were talking about.

Does 507.00 actually specify 5w30 to the exclusion of all others, or is that just what happens to be available?

-mickey

p.s. Does the average non-gearhead give a rat's pink booty about "VW 507.00" or is he just going to look at the viscosity recommendation? Based on my owner's manual the average non-gearhead is obviously going to assume that 5w40 is an option. And an old-school gearhead is going to think, "Hmmm.....it's a turbo, and a diesel, and my Cummins uses a 40 weight.....so 5w40." Both are reasonable interpretations.

If they want 507.00 5w30 they should say so. Don't suggest there are options that don't exist.
 
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New Mickey

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I guess Amsoil did their research. The ONLY oil they list for the 2015 Passat TDI is the 5w30 European Car formula which meets 507.00.

For what it's worth Amsoil says that stuff is specifically APRROVED BY VOLKSWAGEN. Not "meets VW specifications." APPROVED. Make of that what you will. (And I'll bet you will.)

-mickey
 
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dieseldorf

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Yeah, the 507.00 oils were always "5W30", by definition. I think there's something else today, maybe 0W30?? I lost track long ago.

Remember:

"the HT/HS viscosity minimum is 3.5 cP"

VAG has really dumbed this down (for Americans). You don't have to see or understand the spec. If the bottle of oil says 507.00 on it, and is on VAG's list, you're done. There is literally nothing else to fret about. They've covered it in the published spec(s) and they have tested the oil in their lab.
 

New Mickey

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Note the distinction. Amsoil lists the oil as "meeting the requirements of" API, ACEA, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, GM and Chrysler specifications.

Then, in BOLD PRINT, specifically says "MANUFACTURER APPROVALS: VW 504.00, 507.00"

That, folks, means "CERTIFIED." Volkswagen has specifically approved that particular Amsoil product for use in the 2015 2.0 TDI engines.

So at least THAT stupid debate is laid to rest. (Yeah, right....sure it is.)

-mickey
 

turbobrick240

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Yeah, there are also 0w30 507 oils. I know mobil makes one.
 

New Mickey

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Yeah, the 507.00 oils were always "5W30", by definition. I think there's something else today, maybe 0W30?? I lost track long ago.

Remember:

"the HT/HS viscosity minimum is 3.5 cP"

VAG has really dumbed this down (for Americans). You don't have to see or understand the spec. If the bottle of oil says 507.00 on it, and is on VAG's list, you're done. There is literally nothing else to fret about. They've covered it in the published spec(s) and they have tested the oil in their lab.
I'm not fretting over the oil. The existence of this thread demonstrates that I'm obviously on the "spectrum" when it comes to oil. (You have to be a bit loony to even worry about motor oil.) I'm fretting over the poorly written owner's manual that leaves a VW owner to either guess, or do research beyond the manual that he shouldn't have to do. But I'm satisfied that my question is answered: 507.00 and 5w30. (I've also read there are 0w30 oils that meet 507.00, but that viscosity is NOT mentioned in the owner's manual.)

-mickey
 

dieseldorf

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Nah, look where I said to cross reference your preferred oil against VAG's published lists. I can't find the word AMSOIL on the published list ... they meet and exceed everything on the planet
 

dieseldorf

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(I've also read there are 0w30 oils that meet 507.00, but that viscosity is NOT mentioned in the owner's manual.)
Facts change. Standards are updated. You can't be angry about your Owner's Manual not covering the mention of 0W30 507.00 if it was just released. It's probably covered in the most recent master lists they do.
 

James & Son

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This is what you should be abscessing about, which 507 oil brand has the better base stock.

04-15-09, 05:56 PM #18
TooSlick
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If the Castrol VW 507.00 is < $7.00/qt, it's formulated with a less capable, average quality, Group III basestock.
I'd use one of the 507.00 oils that's clearly PAO/Ester based, like the Mobil 1/ESP. The Mobil product has excellent viscosity-temp properties and looks like a $10.00/qt synthetic.
 

tdiatlast

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This is what you should be abscessing about, which 507 oil brand has the better base stock.
...I trust you can laugh at yourself a bit...

You meant "obsessing", not "abscessing", unless you want someone to break out in sores.

Thanks for the laugh, sorry, at your expense...from a distance
 

New Mickey

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Facts change. Standards are updated. You can't be angry about your Owner's Manual not covering the mention of 0W30 507.00 if it was just released. It's probably covered in the most recent master lists they do.
I'm not angry about it. I just find the vague wording confusing. Most people won't take the time to research the correct specification.

-mickey
 

New Mickey

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Nah, look where I said to cross reference your preferred oil against VAG's published lists. I can't find the word AMSOIL on the published list ... they meet and exceed everything on the planet
And yet they approve Amsoil.

Their list specifically says it shows SOME of the approved oils that are GENERALLY AVAILABLE. Nowhere do they claim the list is exclusive.

But keep drinking that Kool-Aid. VW specifically approves Amsoil European Car Formula as meeting the requirements of 504.00 and 507.00.

Take some time and process that. I know it's emotionally rough.

-mickey

p.s. Show me ANY oil that doesn't have the same language. NONE of them are "certified" by more than a few manufacturers. ALL of them have a long list of specs that they claim to "meet or exceed."

Mobil 1.....the actual Mobil 1 product......is Approved by Honda/Acura, and by GM for one specific spec. It is NOT approved by any other manufacturer, and never has been. Are we to believe that Mobil 1 is a "scam", and they use "deceptive marketing"? Is your Ford warranty void if you use Mobil 1?

Oil manufacturers and equipment manufacturers will occasionally work together on specific "approvals" or "certifications" that have special requirements, such as VW 507.00, which applies to turbo-diesels that use particulate filters. That is why Amsoil went to the trouble to get specific VW APPROVAL. More general specs that apply to a wide variety of vehicles, are not "certified" by manufacturers. Specs are published, and oil manufacturers formulate to meet them. They ALL do that.
 

New Mickey

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That specific Amsoil product has VW approval. Sorry.

VW says that their list is not complete.

Believe what you like. I'm not going to argue with you about your religion.

-mickey
 

New Mickey

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All I can go by is what Amsoil and VW say.

Amsoil specifically singles out European Car Forumula as having VW APPROVAL. They make no such claim for any other product.

Volkswagen has listed SOME of the oils that they have approved, and made it clear that the list is not complete.

How anyone can derive "it's not approved" form those facts is beyond me. It can only be religion.

Any my other point still stands: This is no longer theory. VW TDIs by the thousands have been running Amsoil for DECADES. Point to a failure or a warranty denial caused by Amsoil.

A round Earth was once a theory. But when Magellan's guys came back it became FACT. The fact is Amsoil is just fine. If you claim otherwise then let's see some facts. Otherwise you're just chanting religious incantations.

-mickey
 

New Mickey

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"Mobil 1 ESP has the following builder approvals....." (Lists VW.)

"Manufacturer Approvals" (Amsoil lists ONLY 504.00 and 507.00 for European Car formula. Makes no claim for any other manufacturer approvals.)

"Manufacturer approval" means the manufacturer has actually tested the product and verified that it meets specifications. Usually at the oil manufacturer's expense. Amsoil has that approval and, presumably, paid for it or otherwise satisfied VW.

Deal with it.

-mickey
 

New Mickey

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Mobil 1 ESP has VW approval for 507.00

"According to Exxon-Mobil" it also meets the STANDARDS for 502.00, 503.00, and 503.01. NO APPROVAL.

So Mobil 1 is snake oil, right?

The original Mobil 1 is "approved" ONLY for Honda/Acura and GM Dexos-1. Nothing else. Therefore Mobil 1 is snake oil, right?

-mickey
 

turbobrick240

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More specifically, it's the Amsoil ESP 5w30 European car formula that seems to have 507 approval.
Amsoil esp 5w30
 
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New Mickey

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Incidentally, Amsoil's VW approval is very recent. The product is new to the market. Why would you expect it to be on VW's older list? The most recent VW list available on the internet is from 2010. European Car Formula has been marketed for only a year or two at this point.

Could the reason it's not listed in your Scriptures be that IT DIDN'T EXIST YET? Or am I blaspheming?

-mickey
 
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scooperhsd

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The owner's manuals are real clear to me - the oil in a CR 2.0 L must be VW507.00. No other specs required or accepted. That leaves the possibility that AMSOIL actually did submit this oil to VW for approval (and which it appears you are saying they did). Anything else about recomended oils is merely suggestions of samples that have been approved, not necessarily totally inclusive.
 

tdiatlast

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Incidentally, Amsoil's VW approval is very recent. The product is new to the market. Why would you expect it to be on VW's older list? The most recent VW list available on the internet is from 2010. European Car Formula has been marketed for only a year or two at this point.

Could the reason it's not listed in your Scriptures be that IT DIDN'T EXIST YET? Or am I blaspheming?

-mickey
Exactly who are you preaching to?????
 

New Mickey

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The owner's manuals are real clear to me - the oil in a CR 2.0 L must be VW507.00. No other specs required or accepted. That leaves the possibility that AMSOIL actually did submit this oil to VW for approval (and which it appears you are saying they did). Anything else about recomended oils is merely suggestions of samples that have been approved, not necessarily totally inclusive.
"Meets the specifications of" means that the oil manufacturer is saying it meets the specifications.

"Manufacturer approval" means the CAR manufacturer specifically states that the oil meets their standards.

Nobody on this site knows exactly how either of those things are determined.

And, as always: I challenge anyone to show me any of the thousands of TDIs running Amsoil over the past quarter century that has been damaged by Amsoil in any way.

-mickey
 
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