Engine bucking / stuttering at 2k rpm

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
I’m having a strange issue with my 2011 Golf TDI - once in a while the engine will buck or stutter if I’m holding the RPM steady around 2000 (usually in 3rd or 4th gear). Easing off the throttle and then applying generous throttle usually snaps it out of this state but it will happen again soon after. This hasn’t happened in about 6 months and just happened again for about 10 minutes on my last drive before going away. I thought about fuel quality but I didn’t tank up today before this happened.

Any thoughts? As a disclaimer I do have a Malone stage 2 tune on the car, but for the most part it seems to have eliminated the hesitation points associated with the stock dieselgate tune.

Little update - I did a scan with VCDS and it seems like a misfire was detected in all 4 cylinders. Dirty/bad injectors maybe? Since it's all 4 though I'm thinking it might be something else.

 
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Wilkins

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Location
British Columbia
TDI
05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
What is the ambient temperature?

I had the fix installed in November and didn’t notice any bucking until the car experienced temperatures above 12 C or so. I went on a trip so the weather got much warmer very quickly and at the same time the bucking and hesitation started. By the time I got back it was warm at home as well. I don’t seem to notice it as much in the morning and we’ve had some colder ones lately but I definitely notice it in the afternoons.

I’m disappointed that the Malone tune hasn’t corrected the problem. I’m considering going that way. The problem seems to me to be related to indecisive de fuelling. If I read torque with my Polar FIS the Torque number bobbles when the hesitation occurs. Normally the number would rise and fall smoothly, basically tracking Pedal. It seems almost as if the fuel is cut too soon, then comes back in and out quite quickly a few times. I’m planning to try to take logs some day but I’m not sure if VCDS will read fast enough to see what is happening.
 

nucklehead

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Location
Ephrata Washington
TDI
2013 Golf TDI W/DSG
My 2013 exhibits a slight hesitation right around 2k rpms. I bought it in Dec when it was cold, no hesitation then. As the temps warm up to the 60s & low 70s it seems to be slightly more notable. I wonder how common this is. It isn't objectionable but it can be felt. The tach jerks just slightly when it hesitates. While it isn't a big deal now, I'm wondering if it can get worse over time.

I've already had problems with it, all warranty work, thank God! A new front left axle was installed since the original was slightly bent, new EGR valve and plumbing, and a new DPF and sensors. Sure glad I didn't have to pay for all those parts. It took them 3 weeks to get the parts, during which I drove the dealer's 'billboard' car.

So far so good with the Golf. Not as quiet as the 2013 Jetta TDI Premium but much more fun to drive.
 
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mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
What is the ambient temperature?

It was actually about 10-12 C yeah. Weird thing is I refuelled later in the day and after restarting the engine the problem seems to have disappeared. I’ll keep an eye on it I guess, and see if there’s anything Malone can do as well.


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Bradm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
02,03,05, Jetta 99.5 Golf
My car does this all the time as well, mainly in 3rd and 4th gear. There’s lots of reading about this on here but I’ve never found a for-sure answer as to why this happens. There’s a lot of posts saying this is “normal” for our cars. I hate to believe that. I’ve also read it’s to do with the EGR or a regen but I’m positive mine is not in a regen when this occurs.
Witkins- are you tuned and deleted? Or just running the tune?
I was told once deleted and tuned this no longer occurs.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
If VCDS is available, you will want to log measuring blocks groups 22 and 216 and observe any changes when it happens.
 

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
If VCDS is available, you will want to log measuring blocks groups 22 and 216 and observe any changes when it happens.

Good to know - its kind of unpredictable so I guess I’ll be bringing my cable along quite often :p


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mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Little update - I did a scan with VCDS and it seems like a misfire was detected in all 4 cylinders. Dirty/bad injectors maybe? Since it's all 4 though I'm thinking it might be something else.


 

Zabel51

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Location
Mississauga, Ont, Canada
TDI
2014 white GSW
I too have experienced surging/flutter in third gear on light trailing throttle, 60 kph (35mph) following installation of Malone stage 2 tune , otherwise stock. More recently I've experienced a very distinct misfire in third gear accelerating past 3000 on light to medium throttle. I wasn't sure if it's condensed water from the intercooler. I normally drive fairly briskly, so i don't think it's intercooler water. I wonder if it's water in the fuel, but I drive regularly, get my fuel from popular quality gas stations and regularly use white PowerService conditioner to scavenge any water from the fuel. I've tried to recreate the situation that caused the misfire without success. maybe it's time to break out my VCDS and learn how to make a recording like the one from the OP
 

Zabel51

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Location
Mississauga, Ont, Canada
TDI
2014 white GSW
I don't know if it's the placebo effect, but i no longer get the engine surging, ever since i installed Diesel Geek's P2015 Code Repair Bracket. So far so good after a couple of weeks.
The description says; P2015 repair bracket limits the range of motion of the V157 intake flap motor to the exact same range as when your car was new.

BTW,The installation went very well and the install videos are excellent.
 

jeepnguy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Location
Omaha
TDI
2011 JSW
Mine did it before the exhaust fix, and still does it. Usually around 2100-2200 it gives a little stutter. Never been able to quite figure out why. I don't remember the temps, or gears, I just know it's always in that little sweet spot when gradually going through that range. On hard acceleration, there is no hiccup.
 

Zabel51

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Location
Mississauga, Ont, Canada
TDI
2014 white GSW
I have driven about 6,000 km since installing the Diesel Geek P2015 Code Repair Bracket and can confirm that 90% of the surging/flutter in third gear has disappeared. I'm very pleased with the improvement in driveability. Waiting to see how it performs the winter, but expecting the same reduction in surging.
 

T Dot

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2000
Location
~ Canada ~
* this is a new car to me.

I just discovered this issue, and was going to post about it until I saw this thread. When I use to drive a gas car, a hiccup like this would be an indication I was in the wrong gear. Am I in the wrong gear?

Is there a fix to this, or should I just accelerate through the hiccup?

Thanks in advance
 

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
I have driven about 6,000 km since installing the Diesel Geek P2015 Code Repair Bracket and can confirm that 90% of the surging/flutter in third gear has disappeared. I'm very pleased with the improvement in driveability. Waiting to see how it performs the winter, but expecting the same reduction in surging.
Good to know! I just ordered one. Even if it does not fix the issue for me it is a good preventative fix for the p2015 error code anyway. I will provide an update if I notice a difference.
 

nucklehead

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Location
Ephrata Washington
TDI
2013 Golf TDI W/DSG
Well, if this is a built in bug, why didn't my 2013 Jetta TDi w/DSG have this surge/miss? I haven't noticed this hesitation lately, but I have installed a Kerma tune. It's Miata weather around here. Since this is likely to be present once the temps cool down I figure it's something I'll just live with. Mine doesn't hesitate all that badly, but is felt. Seems like it's those days when it's cooler in the mornings, like around 50F or so and the engine isn't warmed up yet.
 

97B4TDi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
1997 B4 Passat, 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
I had a similar bucking / stuttering around 2000 rpm / 30mph as well. Used DieselGeeks P2015 Code Repair Bracket and found it to eliminate the issue as well.
 

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
I had a similar bucking / stuttering around 2000 rpm / 30mph as well. Used DieselGeeks P2015 Code Repair Bracket and found it to eliminate the issue as well.
I just installed it and it seems to have gotten rid of 80% of the problem, but it still happens occasionally. Perhaps the ECU needs to learn the new range of the motor? I also dumped a bottle of clear diesel into the tank to see if maybe some crud built up over the years. One of these two seems to have helped anyway! I’ll keep monitoring it.
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
Ok, that's at least 3 folks who've installed DG's bracket and report their bucking issue mostly resolved.

Can we conclude it's something to do with air intake vs throttle input?

I was on the fence about buying it, but I may just get it now and see if it fixes my bucking issue on slight throttle in 3rd/4th gears.
 

97B4TDi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
1997 B4 Passat, 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
Ok, that's at least 3 folks who've installed DG's bracket and report their bucking issue mostly resolved.

Can we conclude it's something to do with air intake vs throttle input?

I was on the fence about buying it, but I may just get it now and see if it fixes my bucking issue on slight throttle in 3rd/4th gears.
Go for it. On other posts it is recommended as preventative maintenance anyways.

Long story short is: the linkage motor stop is weak, wears/breaks eventually and the arms moves out of range.

Perhaps the “swirl flaps” in the intake get stuck and cause a slight delay in response from the extra range in motion...?
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
DG bracket received and installed, right before oil change today. Will report any changes on my next 200 mile daily commute.

Side question: how important is that little spring? I seem to have dropped it into the abyss and didn’t really feel like getting the bellypan off just to retrieve it.
 
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