My dealer is jerking me around!

Changed my oil at the dealer last weekend and immediately went on a trip. Just noticed yesterday that the new window sticker lists "Castrol GTX" and "5/30." The invoice, however, lists S 5/40 (which I take to mean synthetic 5/40). I called the service manager to clarify, and he said that the only way he could tell for sure which was put in was to physically look at the oil. I think he's full of crap! I worked at a Quaker State quick lube during college, and while I don't know Castrol's product, I do know that if you poured QS synthetic into a clear container next to QS crude-based oil, you couldn't tell the difference between the two. Plus, after the 1200+ miles since the oil change, the oil is already black as coal. (by the way, is this normal?) Finally, according to the dipstick, the oil is overfilled by 1/2 quart!!! Also, the service manager said that I shouldn't run 10,000 miles on the oil change, but should come back in 5,000. (he said that synthetic gets just as dirty as regular oil). Again, I think he's full of it - if 10,000 on synthetic is good enough for VW, it's good enough for me! So, I guess I need to know the following, if anybody can help me:

1) Is it possible to tell the difference between Castrol Synthetic and Castrol GTX just by looking at it, especially after 1200+ miles of use?

2) What harm could be caused by overfilling by 1/2 quart? (I assume it is negligible)

3) Is it common to have oil be pitch black after 1200+ miles of use?

4) Should I change the oil again at 15,000 per the dealer, or wait until 20,000 as recommended by VW?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I just hate not trusting the dealer like this - I should just do it myself.

I have a similar experience w/ my dealer. The invoice says 5w40, the window sticker tells me to be back in 3000 miles.
My oil is always black.

#1-I doubt it. #2-this is very common-take your own oil-(Amsoil, Delvac-and CAT are the best) for your next change-and only give them 4-quarts-or one gallon-and tell them you will top it off at home. You can get some out thru the dipstick hole if you have a Topsider or similar. #3-Yes-oil on diesel engines gets black quick (like even 100 miles) because of the soot. Thats why its inportant to use the CH-4 rated oil-and full synthetic with high TBN to be able to handle the soot for the 10,000 mile interval. #4-If you use the right oil-the 15,000 mile change is not necessary-and they will CHARGE YOU for that one if you do it (it is not part of the "free scheduled maintenance" and the dealers know that-but hope that you don't). Look in your manual-they are at 5k, 10k, and 20k for the TDI. My dealer tried to say the same thing-about my next change due at 15k-and I showed him the manual-and he grinned. It is TOTALLY uneeded-if you bring in your own oil at the 10k change-or MAKE SURE they are using what they are supposed to.

1) No

2) You can poison your catalytic converter and gunk up your intercooler

3) Yes, oil in a diesel turns black very quickly

4) I would not run the Castrol for 10K miles, but that is my opinion

Josh,

If Miller VW is your dealer, they tried to put Kendall dino oil in my car at my 5K service. Take them some Delvac or Amsoil and insist that they use that instead.

1) I doubt it, if the oils were both right out of the bottle. After 1200 miles? No bleeding way.

2) 1/2 quart will cost you minimal mileage, but not too much otherwise. Still, overfilling is not good as it puts extra stress on the oil rings and might cause more junk in the CCV. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but it shows lack of concern, or ignorance of VW factory procedures.

3) Yup. Actually, you will see a lot of black after 50 miles or less. That is if you get a thorough oil change. I'll detail more of that below.

4) Your choice. If, in fact, they put in the actual recommended and VW supplied oil, you can go to 20k miles. If they cheated you, then no, don't do it because of the soot load.

While your service guy was correct in that the oils get just as dirty no matter what the type and grade, he is apparently ignorant of the reasons why VW recommends sythetic oils and only those oils of CH-4 or better grade (like the PC-9 which is coming). The higher grade oils have additional dispersant additives to allow the oil to cope with the increased soot load in the oil over 10k miles. Without those additives (i.e. a CF or CG oil), then a 5k oil change interval would be required.

OK: oil change procedure of those of us that are really anal-retentive about it.

1) all the usual steps apply.
2) when you pull out the oil filter from its housing, you need some sort of vacuum device that can suck out at least 1/2 liter of oil. You need to put some small diameter hose (3/8" o.d. max.) down into the bottom of the housing and suck out the oil at the bottom. There are 2 round holes. One of them will accept 6-8" of hose. Put it down there and suck out all the oil you can. There should be about 1/2 liter in there. That is the oil cooler and it doesn't gravity drain.
3) after replacing the oil pan drain plug, pour 4 liters of new oil into the oil filter cartridge housing prior to replacing the filter. At least then you will have filled the oil cooler again.
4) button everything up, start engine, run, shutdown, allow for drain to pan, check oil level and top off per the manual's instructions.

If you do the change this way, you will find that you need 4.5 liters (quarts) to do the job, and the oil will take a while before it becomes inky black.

If you do not drain the oil cooler, you will find that you only need 4 quarts and the oil is immediately black if you check it at the station on the way home.

Dealers overfill because they add 4.5 quarts and do not suction out the 1/2 quart from the oil cooler. Thus, they think they are doing the correct thing. The manual says to add 4 quarts, run the engine, stop it, allow for drainage to the oil pan, then check the level and top off. Obviously, if they add 4.5 quarts to a 4.5 quart system in which there is already 0.5 quarts of <dirty!> oil in it, it will then be 0.5 quarts overfilled.

Now, which oil is best? Hey, NOT GOING THERE!!!

1. No.

2. Probably none. Remember that after a couple of hours "full" is represented by the bend in the dipstick ABOVE the crosshatched area. The crosshatched area is for when you check the oil within a minute or two of shutdown, like when you are fuelling up.

3. Yes. The only time a TDI's oil looks clean is when the engine is brand new.

4. The dealer is lying to you. There is no such thing as a "15K service" on a TDI. 10K, 20K, 30K...etc.

They DO need to use "synthetic" oil, even if it's just Group III "synthetic." The Castrol GTX, if that's what they used, doesn't qualify by any stretch of the imagination. Odds are they used the Syntec, though, and just printed up a standard work order.

-mickey

Thanks for all the info!! Now I am a little more confident in going back and speaking with him. What I'd really like is for them to drain out whatever is in there and replace it with full synthetic, but I guess we'll just have to see. I almost hope he takes a look at the dipstick and says "yup, that's synthetic alright, see you later" so I can pitch a genuine hissyfit right there in his parking lot. If only VW would call me asking for a service rating. I'll give an update when available.

My big fear is that they want me to come back at 15,000 instead of 20,000 because they know they put in GTX instead of Synthetic, but that is probably just a bit of paranoia on my part. Anyway, thanks again!