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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +)

VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +) Discussions area for the Mk7 (2015+) Golf and Golf Wagon TDIs based on the MQB (Modularer Querbaukasten) platform.

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Old September 25th, 2015, 12:58   #16
meerschm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Note that the 2016 EA288 engined cars are not part of the EPA letter. I've been told that this is because they don't have the defeat device. They passed emissions without it. I haven't verified this, but the big "40 times" number that fearmongers are throwing around is from a non-SCR car. The amount the SCR cars (Passat, '15 EA288), is far less.

Dealers expect '16s to be available soon. Recalls for the older cars will take more time.

the 2016s were not included in the letter, because the years in the letter were previously certified for sale.

the rejection of the 2016 for the moment, is covered by the normal process. You do not need to recall a car that has not been sold.

(that being said, the 2016s could just need a patch, as could the 2015s)
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Old September 25th, 2015, 13:06   #17
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I've had both engines in the past year and a half. My JSW with the ea189 regen'd all the f'ing time, despite highway trips... blah, blah, blah
The new ea288 GSW regens rarely. Great engine and car. My prediction is that the ea288 will comply readily with a reflash without much impact to performance... maybe a little on FE, but I average above the EPA highway when calc'd by hand already.... and that's way better than what I averaged with my other TSI Golf.
Unfortunately, the ea189 fiasco will probably really set diesel back enough to allow high efficient gas and hybrids to put the nail in the coffin here in the US. The 2015 and 2016 ea288 may be the last higher volume TDIs produced by VW for the US market, despite being truly clean in the end. VW has great TSI technologies now and just need to get those going. Will be a dark 2-3 years for VW USA, and hopefully they don't pull out.
The 1.4TSI is going to be a challenge for the TDI. It is only rated at what 3 mpg worse than the EA189? There is a bigger gap to the EA288 but still not a lot.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 14:19   #18
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The "Clean Air" thread in the Emissions forum has become unreadable. It also seems to be full of posts from people who have recently joined and don't own any TDI vehicles. The amount of condemnation mixed with hand wringing is astounding.

I would like to see here a more focused discussion around the EA288. There are many questions about it's level of NOX emissions compared to the older engines and even whether it can be brought into compliance. If VW diesels have a future it will be based at least for a while on this motor. If the EA288 can't be made to pass the test it brings up a whole set of problems for those of us lucky/unlucky enough to own one.

I took delivery of my 2015 Sportwagen a little over 2 weeks ago. I really like this car and although I don't expect a buy back I don't want a car stripped of the reasons why I purchased it in the first place. If the diesel program is cancelled, caring for our vehicles will become very difficult. For the last 12 years I have relied on Fred's to care for my ALH. Although I've had VW diesels since 1982 I have never had good luck with the VW dealer network for service. I fear if only a few folks have an EA288 the collective knowledge available here will be very limited.
Panda...I'm in the same boat. I just bought my 15 GSW TDI on 30 AUG. I haven't even driven it yet; the shipping company picked it up at the dealer and forwarded it to me at post (Moscow).

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding which TDI engine model is effected....EA189, EA288 or BOTH.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 14:31   #19
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Originally Posted by fatbobfenner View Post
Panda...I'm in the same boat. I just bought my 15 GSW TDI on 30 AUG. I haven't even driven it yet; the shipping company picked it up at the dealer and forwarded it to me at post (Moscow).

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding which TDI engine model is effected....EA189, EA288 or BOTH.
You're going to really enjoy your new car.

I do believe VW will be able to "fix" this motor if it's necessary. At the very least they should extend the emissions and engine warranty by a significant number of years/miles.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 15:09   #20
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Although I've owned diesels since 1975 this time around I almost sprang for a TSI. This was based on the current trend in gasoline prices which seems to be down. I chose the TDI instead, basically because I was impressed by the specifications of the EA288 and assumed it would last a long long time. Doing so cost me a hefty premium at a time when the dealer must have known what was soon to break in the news.

If and at this point it's an unknown for sure, VW refuses any compensation to those who bought 2015 model vehicles perhaps a small claims court law suit for the difference in cost plus anticipated increase maintenance cost would be fair. I don't think a buy back is fair to the company but we surely have less than we thought we purchased.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 15:16   #21
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Doing so cost me a hefty premium at a time when the dealer must have known what was soon to break in the news.
When I wrote the owner of our local dealer on September 14th to ask about the port hold on '16s, he had no information from VWoA about it. When asked all they did was confirm the port hold. I think dealers were as blindsighted about this as customers.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 15:53   #22
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
When I wrote the owner of our local dealer on September 14th to ask about the port hold on '16s, he had no information from VWoA about it. When asked all they did was confirm the port hold. I think dealers were as blindsighted about this as customers.
I concur with IBW, I am fairly close with a service manager at a local dealership. They had no idea. That plus the recall for the clock spring, sales are slow.

On a side note, ID Parts.....make a winter front for the Mk7!!!

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Old September 25th, 2015, 16:15   #23
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Working on it. Have a loaner '15 GSW from our local dealer for that purpose.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 16:38   #24
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Just to clarify. I am 99% certain that regens on the E288 are for the particulate filter, they have nothing to do with NOx
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Old September 25th, 2015, 16:54   #25
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Just to clarify. I am 99% certain that regens on the E288 are for the particulate filter, they have nothing to do with NOx
The 288 motors do not use a trap that needs to be regened very often (every few minutes) to be effective...it uses the DEF, which absorbs/chemically reacts with the nox...and is then burnt off and made into n2 when a regen is commanded....that is the ENTIRE REASEON why def/addblue is used....to control nox.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 17:41   #26
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Don't know if this contribute to this discussion but here is what the CEO of Autonation (Biggest dealership for VW in the US) said:

A recall fix may be coming soon for 2015 and 2016 models, neither of which can be sold until repairs are made. Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, the country's largest auto dealership chain, said Wednesday that he was told by VW officials that a software change will bring the last two model years into compliance.

Here is the article:
http://www.mynews4.com/news/story/Se...ADFTwFsxQ.cspx
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Old September 25th, 2015, 17:59   #27
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Just to clarify. I am 99% certain that regens on the E288 are for the particulate filter, they have nothing to do with NOx
This is correct. Particulate filter is filtering particulate matter.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 18:15   #28
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This is correct. Particulate filter is filtering particulate matter.
Technically correct...that is why def is used....the urea chemically binds with the nox...and is then burnt off...if a def/urea.addblue system is installed, the level of nox control can be changed by adjusting the flow rates...and the ea288 in the 2015+ cars have a addblue/urea/def system...
On the non def cars a LNT trap is used to capture nox...but a trap needs regened, like in "test mode" very often...or it becomes saturated....
Remember...there is more than ONE emissions component....
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Old September 26th, 2015, 08:01   #29
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Seems a lot of confusion about whether or not the 15's are included.
My car has used so little AdBlue over the first 30K+ miles. If the usage doubled I wouldn't care.
I can only hope they offer big coupons to current owners and rebates/incentives for the 2016's.
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Old September 26th, 2015, 10:37   #30
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They're included. Look at the EPA letter, they're listed.
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