Looking at Q7 TDI's and Lexus LX 470's

Hey guy's. The family and I are looking to get a used largish SUV for our growing needs. I'm a hobbyist mechanic with experience mostly on PD TDI's and Lexus/Toyota's from the early 90's to the mid 2000's. With maintenance and repair costs being much lower with myself doing everything I find it hard to read the market on these two SUV's. I understand that I'm asking about a Lexus is a TDI forum but I can guarantee you that asking about a Q7 in a Land Cruiser forum would get me absolutely crucified.

I'm looking at 2006-2007 LX 470's or 2013ish Q7 TDI's. The prices are comparable between those two. We had a '13 Passat TDI for several years before selling it back to VW. It gave us wonderful service.

The LX and Q7 are polar opposite vehicles but I am just looking to get some opinions from other car enthusiasts. The LX, being a Land Cruiser, is obviously going to be the most durable of the two and possibly the most reliable. The Q7 is much newer, better fuel economy and has that wonderful German engineering. Both give us the room required for a family. The LX is probably a much more sturdy feeling vehicle with it's platform and heritage but the the Q7 may feel much more like home to the wife who has had nothing but VW's her entire life. The LX is a pretty mechanical vehicle with a manually shifted transfer case, hydraulic suspension and big N/A V8 while the Q7 is very sophisticated, efficient and pushing the limits of it's day in advancement.

What do my fellow car enthusiasts have to say about these two?

First, the LX470 is the Toyota Land Cruiser Cygnus (which is just the Land Cruiser here, since we never got more than one at a time) with a circle L on its beak. The only real difference is the LX got the active suspension as standard, which does nothing other than provide expensive bits to break and require replacement, and the later ones got the variable gear ratio steering which is rather useless. So I would at least shop for a Land Cruiser, too. There are some other items that were optional on the Toyota but standard on the Lexus, mostly minor items, and most Toyotas were tarted all the way up anyway. The Toyota Sequoia is bigger, uses the same powertrain, but is a little "cheaper", but will suck down gas just the same. Its rearmost seat is more useful, if you need it. The Lexus GX470, which is the Land Cruiser Prado, had no exact equivalent at the Toyota dealer, although is more or less on the same platform as the 4Runner. The Prado is about 3/4 scale of the Cygnus, but does have rear jump seats.

A Sienna is roomier inside than all of them, uses less fuel, is easier to service, and easier to get in and out of. And is available with AWD should you think you need it.

I did a tour of duty at Lexus, the LX is a good vehicle, and the 4.7L V8 is a good engine. But I would never own one over a Land Cruiser.

The Land Cruiser drives like a truck, because it is a truck. Full frame, solid rear axle, shaped like a house, etc. The Q7 is a much more sophisticated vehicle, and is mostly the same as the Touareg, just stretched a bit. They drive and handle much nicer, but are expensive to maintain.

If your wife is used to VW feel, I’d pursue the Q7 for its refinement and sophistication in all aspects. There is a lot you can do yourself to hold down the maintenance costs, and there is a warranty covering the big engine and emissions stuff.

oilhammer said:

First, the LX470 is the Toyota Land Cruiser Cygnus (which is just the Land Cruiser here, since we never got more than one at a time) with a circle L on its beak. The only real difference is the LX got the active suspension as standard, which does nothing other than provide expensive bits to break and require replacement, and the later ones got the variable gear ratio steering which is rather useless. So I would at least shop for a Land Cruiser, too. There are some other items that were optional on the Toyota but standard on the Lexus, mostly minor items, and most Toyotas were tarted all the way up anyway. The Toyota Sequoia is bigger, uses the same powertrain, but is a little "cheaper", but will suck down gas just the same. Its rearmost seat is more useful, if you need it. The Lexus GX470, which is the Land Cruiser Prado, had no exact equivalent at the Toyota dealer, although is more or less on the same platform as the 4Runner. The Prado is about 3/4 scale of the Cygnus, but does have rear jump seats.
A Sienna is roomier inside than all of them, uses less fuel, is easier to service, and easier to get in and out of. And is available with AWD should you think you need it.
I did a tour of duty at Lexus, the LX is a good vehicle, and the 4.7L V8 is a good engine. But I would never own one over a Land Cruiser.
The Land Cruiser drives like a truck, because it is a truck. Full frame, solid rear axle, shaped like a house, etc. The Q7 is a much more sophisticated vehicle, and is mostly the same as the Touareg, just stretched a bit. They drive and handle much nicer, but are expensive to maintain.

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Thanks for the reply. The market down here puts a premium on the LC name while the LX 470 is nearly the same vehicle. It's almost as if people down here think that the market doesn't understand that the LX 470 is a fancy Land Cruiser. My wife won't do a minivan. I do agree that they are better practically but I'll want to do some towing as well here and here so a truck based platform would be better. I do not like the GX. Even though the Touareg platform isn't a 'truck' I've always considered it such because it has a longitudinally mounted drivetrain.

I feel like the LX 470 or LC would be a more reliable vehicle overall than a TDI Q7 but they're also 5 years older when comparing the same price. What I don't have experience with is repairing common failure points on each of these particular models. If you do, would you say the Q7 is a fairly parts intensive machine? I know the Touareg's have the prop shaft issues and eat through brakes like crazy. The LX 470's are pretty solid from what I've heard except for the control display unit in the dash that controls everything. New they're something like $8,000 from Lexus/Toyota. Because it was so common, it's my understanding that the parts network within Lexus worked out a repair option that is just a few hundred bucks.

It has alway's seemed to me that Toyota has taken pride in dragging out old durable technology as long as they can. You can still stick a key in the back hatch of a 4runner and roll the back window down. The LC had a manual transfer case lever until 2008 or so. Meanwhile Audi has all sorts of gadgets and gizmos that seem like a nightmare to keep everything in perfect working order.

They're such polar opposites that it really seems pretty hard to gauge the ownership experience between the two.

You may wish to take into account the difference in efficiency. The 4.7 is an underpowered guzzler.

The 4.7 is in no way underpowered. It does drink gas though.

The fixed Q7 is absolutely underpowered.

You definitely need a tune to make it drivable.

MBQ said:

The fixed Q7 is absolutely underpowered.

You definitely need a tune to make it drivable.

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I found getting the transmission control module swapped back to a prefix unit got the majority of the drivability back. Very inexpensive, simple and retains your extended emissions warranty.

The Q7 got the ZF tranny. Better IMO vs the Aisin in the T-reg. I have both and find nothing wrong with the ZF in my A6 TDI. However I did not drive it pre-fix so cannot compare. The T-Reg I owned prior to the fix. If you do only highway driving it is fine, its the stop and go and cold start that is annoying.
And yes a tune changes everything

The later Q7s got a ZF, the earlier ones use the same Aisin 09D as the T'reg.

I see lots of bad talk about the ownship experience of Touareg’s where at the very best case scenario your chewing through tires and brake at alarming rates. Add to that the prop shaft issues and engine issues I have to wonder if the Q7 TDI has the same reputation.

There are some nice ‘fixed’ Touareg’s around, like a 2012 Executive with 27k miles at my local dealer. But, with all of the ‘don’t do it’ talk regarding the Touareg, how is the Q7 different?

Unfix it and all the problems go away

mbq said:

unfix it and all the problems go away

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Good answer!

I have not heard of that many shaft failures. Rear tires will wear fast but better now that I had the alignment Camber fixed. As for brakes I have 110000kms on mine and while the front are still good the rotors are warped and I have vibration under high speed braking. Not that bad on brakes IMO. Q7 would / should have similar issues.
I guess it all comes down to your needs. Personally I would go with the newer / more luxurious vehicle that still has some warrentee. But I am a TDI / Diesel fanatic so somewhat biased On TDI number 7 and Diesel number 9 all since 2001.

Every experience is different. The Q7's a little bigger than the Treg and equipped a bit better, but the Treg is no slouch. I respect Oilhammer's knowledge and experience so we went into Treg ownership with our eyes wide open. We budgeted accordingly for maintenance and have been blessed not to have had to use as much as we planned. We continue to do the same.

We don't drive ours like we stole it so tire and brake wear have not been bad. Our '09 Touareg got about 45k miles per tire set. We drove it 120k miles and had not changed the brake pads or rotors when we sold it back to VW at about 140k miles (although it was getting close). The prop shaft started to indicate some looseness at around 110k miles so we replaced it -- could have gone longer but didn't want to risk it.
We've only driven our '14 about 30k miles, has 58k on it now. We replaced the original Eagle LS tires at about 35k miles because of combination wear and flaking tread, now has Michelins that are holding up well.
Also we owned the '14 before and after the fix, no meaningful difference in behavior, mileage or performance for us.

Tom_B said:

Every experience is different. The Q7's a little bigger than the Treg and equipped a bit better, but the Treg is no slouch. I respect Oilhammer's knowledge and experience so we went into Treg ownership with our eyes wide open. We budgeted accordingly for maintenance and have been blessed not to have had to use as much as we planned. We continue to do the same.
We don't drive ours like we stole it so tire and brake wear have not been bad. Our '09 Touareg got about 45k miles per tire set. We drove it 120k miles and had not changed the brake pads or rotors when we sold it back to VW at about 140k miles (although it was getting close). The prop shaft started to indicate some looseness at around 110k miles so we replaced it -- could have gone longer but didn't want to risk it.
We've only driven our '14 about 30k miles, has 58k on it now. We replaced the original Eagle LS tires at about 35k miles because of combination wear and flaking tread, now has Michelins that are holding up well.
Also we owned the '14 before and after the fix, no meaningful difference in behavior, mileage or performance for us.

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That’s good to hear. We looked at a ‘12 today with 27k miles. There is surface rust on things like bolt heads and nuts. I looked at the carfax and it looks like it was owned in FL originally but was stored in MI before the fix. It’s not a huge deal but I don’t like it for 27k miles. They are asking $27k for it which seems insane to me. I’d say it’s worth more like $21k tops. The market seems really really soft on these. I bet the dealer doesn’t have $15k in to it.

VW transferred titles to MI during the buyback. The car probably was not moved to MI for storage. Probably stored somewhere in the South East, if it was originally from FL, and you are in FL, looking at it.

tactdi said:

VW transferred titles to MI during the buyback. The car probably was not moved to MI for storage. Probably stored somewhere in the South East, if it was originally from FL, and you are in FL, looking at it.

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It’s hard figure out why the thing has rust all over the hardware of it has been in FL. The brake dust shields have bubbling paint, the strut studs and burns up under the hood are brown rust and most every bolt head and nut have rust on them. I don’t see that on FL cars.

Entirely possible that Florida+rust= flood/water damage.
Street flooding in Miami is a fairly regular and now normal event that people just drive thru.
Similar situations occurring elsewhere in FL.
The blanket assumption that an FL car would be rust free is no longer applicable. Really depends on where in FL the vehicle was used.