Water Methanol injection on a TDI?

pegbox 7

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Location
Lancashire. UK
TDI
Golf Mk4 Gt Tdi (130)
The car in the video uses it only for cooling purposes as the massive increased power from the NOS/Propane mix causes a huge rise in temperature.

You have to be very careful with any form of water injection that it atomises correctly. Hardly any spare room in there for water droplets...

Be careful, choose a really good quality spray jet - and the results can be excellent:)
 

spoilsport

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Location
Houston TX
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver (Sold). 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon Tiptronic (daughter's)
mojogoes said:
This mod is ok for the big boys Cummings etc but to impractical for our tdi's.
Isn't the VW Rally TDI using water injection?
 

weasel

Deactivated Member Account
Joined
Sep 12, 2000
TDI
None.
Making your own kit isn't hard to do at all. I made my own system before on my old TD and it worked rather well. I used a nozzle from an oil furnace ( Make sure its a stainless steel, solid cone pattern and the lowest flow they have ) the pressure switch I got from Napa ( adjustable ) and the pump is an agricultural chemical sprayer pump. The tank can be just about anything you want. After that its a matter of adjusting the switch to come on when you want. ~ 10psi is usually good. Tons of info on the net about various DIY kits. I ran 50/50 water meth in the winter and plain distilled water in the summer. Btw, if you use w/w fluid, use it straight up. Its already about 50/50 mix.
 

pegbox 7

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Location
Lancashire. UK
TDI
Golf Mk4 Gt Tdi (130)
Hi Vortex, car looks awesome, very neat under bonnet install !!

Where abouts do you actually have the water/meth injection jet located on your car as i cant see it from the photos..
 

VortexNL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Location
The Netherlands
TDI
Golf IV, 2002, Silver
Right after the intercooler... you won't see it from the pics because its on the back side. I do need to realocated my temp and pressure sensor to get more power out of the system.
 

orion2.0

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Location
syracuse, NY
TDI
2002 golf tdi
water/methanol injection question

Ok well i have the opportunity to jump in on a group buy of water/methanol injection kits from snow performance. I am seriously considering getting one.

I am wondering if anyone on here has used water/meth injection with their TDI (or know someone who has)... I am curious to hear what kind of gains people have seen, or related problems/issues...or any advice at all regarding this. thanks.
 

orion2.0

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Location
syracuse, NY
TDI
2002 golf tdi
no thoughts eh? Well I guess I'll just have to get one anyway...then I can let you all know if the results are worth while.
 

drkblujetta

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Location
Venus
TDI
2011 Audi A4 ALH TDI
Knew a local guy with meth injection on his TDI.

He ran the same times racing in cold weather (no meth) as he did in hot weather(w/meth).

But he sold his kit, it was really useless with his stock turbo & fueling.

Really its meant to cool things down, some notice an increase in HP (only the bigger turbo and fueled TDI's around)

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=185502&highlight=meth+injection

I would invest in other upgrades before that set-up........(nozzles,turbo,chip/tuning box etc......)
 

johnnloki

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Location
bowmanville ON
TDI
04 Golf TDI
The Rally Car has it, one or two of the Brits have it, Kerma seems to think they're a good idea. Everyone who doesn't have water/methanol seems to think it's a waste of time. They're designed with Turbo Diesels in mind- I'm really superised that they're not more popular/used.
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
I would agree not the most useful for completely stock, but what are you running besides it? that should be a first question. then do I need the meth/h20 ink?

BTW- where is the group buy and what kit is it for? I may want one...
 

jayfrigginjones

Veteran Member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Location
Albuquerque, nm
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI 5sp
Guy at work just installed the $750 kit from snow performance on his stock cummins. He can't tell any power gains at all, but he isn't mixing his own methanol, just buying washerfluid with high methanol content. He's disappointed because on the forums he was reading people were claiming incredible increases in power.
 

Diesel_Benz

Banned
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Denver, Colorado
TDI
Mercedes
W/M injection is not worth it. The power gain for the cost is a terrible value.

I dynoed my Mercedes with it. There was no gain at all with straight water and a 2HP gain at the wheels with a 50/50 mix. There was no EGT reduction at all no matter the mix.
 
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weasel

Deactivated Member Account
Joined
Sep 12, 2000
TDI
None.
If you want to experiment, make your own kit. The Snow kits are a bit pricey for the slightest gain you'll get. You could use it for perpetual intake cleaning ...
 

NathanMSL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alvin, Texas
TDI
Golf, 2005, PD100, white
Water methanol alone is not going to get you much. The whole purpose behind it is that you can keep your temps, like egt's, and add more fuel. More fuel = more power

Water/Meth just keeps you from melting things :D
 

hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
I'm pretty sure that Stingrays Lupo wouldn have one if it wouldnt help...
 

devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
hatemi said:
I'm pretty sure that Stingrays Lupo wouldn have one if it wouldnt help...
But that's a nutcase car. :D I heard he basically took a huge "drill" (sure it was more precise than that suggests) to the injector nozzles to flow the maximum amount of fuel. His EGTs would be higher than most if it weren't for the aquamist type setup. :) I would get one if I were at that level but being around the mid 200s, it seems not necessary (yet) ;)
 

hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
I will try one if I ever have enough money :D For now the engine rebuild is eating up all my funds and then some. Maybe next summer...
 

devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
Well, IF I get the BMC box I want, I'll be freeing up some room in the top right of my engine bay. Probably enough room for a pump and separate storage bottle. But like you said, other things take priority. I gotta get that damn LSD equipped box in my car, and obtain a SMF to fit in the process.
 

johnnloki

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Location
bowmanville ON
TDI
04 Golf TDI
You could just upgrade the washer tank to the larger size and run the water/meth from that...

Honestly, it's like an upgraded exhaust, an FMIC and a mild (5-10%) bump in power, and potentially boost/egt gauge all in the one install- saves money at the performance shop. It gives you more power, makes it stick around longer, clears up smoke and Nox (so you can kill your EGR and not have to worry about intake cleaning without feeling bad about polluting the environment)... it's a good upgrade, so far as I've seen. I've not read too many negative things about it aside from people who don't own one, but heard third hand that someone's cousin from turkmenistan doesn't like theirs, or people who've not demonstrated that they owned one/talked about it before, saying that it's not worth it 'cause they super serious had one before but just never bothered to mention it before. It seems like a scary prospect, injecting water and foreign fuel, but it's been around longer than most people who criticize it. Tried and tested as true- it's a great backup for fuelling mods, and it will lower your EGTs- you're vaporizing a cool fluid, and absorbing energy by doing so... physics.

The ability to get the controller with the boost+pyrometer functions is a good enough reason to consider it early on- typically more aggressive stages of chips won't be installed on cars without them, so why not get it out of the way?
 
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devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
I would probably use a separate reservoir, only because my existing bottle has level sensor, and I'm not even convinced there is a larger one. Also, I run normal tap water for my washer jets, and I think the aquamist needs distilled water, or something "special" ??
 

orion2.0

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Location
syracuse, NY
TDI
2002 golf tdi
yeah it should be distilled water. I am wondering now if it makes sense for me to get one since i am sticking with my stock turbo...I am going with pp520s and RC3euro. Maybe thats not enough fueling to need one of these. I should have bought PP764s.
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
There is some merit to Water/Meth injection. Some tractor pullers use it exclusively for intercooling in volumes of 3-4 GPM. Using it also steam cleans the insides of your combustion chambers up nice too.
 

TdiRacing

Vendor
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI Cup
We run a Snow performance Kit on our Rally Golf and I have been testing it in my car as well. Most of you are way off with gains. It is not so slight as you think. I will be posting dynos very soon. AND THE EGT REDUCTION is SIGNIFICANT. You have to tune the car for the water/Meth. It was the only way we could keep the turbos alive at pikes peak.

I show people every day how well it works in my car. All you have to do is drive it to see and feel the difference. My EGT are easily 200-300F lower with the spray. VERY KEY ON SMALLER TURBO SET UPS, like vnt 17 with high fueling and power.

You have to remember that the methanol os a fuel and have to compensate for what you are injection in the tune and in the water injection nozzle size. Most backyard kits are dont work because they do not progressivly increase the amount of injection as the boost pressure increase. The snow kit does.

Plus, they have a new kit in the works that monitors EGT via a probe as well as Boost. Will be trying this one very soon as well.

The snow kit works great. That is all I know.
 

thermopylaetech

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Location
Accord NY USA
TDI
2005 Jetta Variant TDi/PD
Having watched the EGT guage on that car while transiting from US speed to European speed, yes; yes it does make a very noticable difference in temps. Power gains are all proportional IE if EGT is what's holding you back then this kit will make some serious differences, if you are looking for the next nifty gadget you probably won't see as much.
 
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