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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old July 13th, 2017, 19:57   #31
VwPassion
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Here is what you do not see, no one here said to or want to use it backward and that is what you fail to see. Stop with the Greek, Indians, and Australians that want to. I also heard everything you said. I listen well you obviously don't. 507.00 works extremely well within the engines that were spect for it. Nobody said anything to the contriary or even suggested that it be used in pre CR engines..
This is a .com forum , not a private or a .ca only . That means anything is written here its global , from Nigeria to Japan and from Greece to Chile . Anything i say its obviously for the rest planet a problem which maybe is not for you and a few rest . Not want compare the few K tdi in your area with the rest global number . 507 is a trap ,a planned obsolescence well made and it has been globally proved but you are bored to search rest forums .
As long for our little conversation i must apologize to the owner of that thread because we are both way off the main subject ,hopefully an Admin erase the off-topic . So i do stop this analysis here but if you wanna still listen a few Greeks ,open a similar to our conversation thread and i ll happily teach you a few more there .
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Old July 13th, 2017, 20:08   #32
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Originally Posted by VwPassion View Post
This is a .com forum , not a private or a .ca only . That means anything is written here its global , from Nigeria to Japan and from Greece to Chile . Anything i say its obviously for the rest planet a problem which maybe is not for you and a few rest . Not want compare the few K tdi in your area with the rest global number . 507 is a trap ,a planned obsolescence well made and it has been globally proved but you are bored to search rest forums .
As long for our little conversation i must apologize to the owner of that thread because we are both way off the main subject ,hopefully an Admin erase the off-topic . So i do stop this analysis here but if you wanna still listen a few Greeks ,open a similar to our conversation thread and i ll happily teach you a few more there .
Yes, you did highjack this thread from what the OP was asking and turned it into a personal vendetta against 507.00 oil with the thought that you alone were going to educate the world about the evil spec. You, not me, start your own thread and see where that goes! You can title it 507.00 is a trap. Let us see how many people from Greece, Chile, Japan, India, Australia and Nigeria respond.

Last edited by MichaelB; July 13th, 2017 at 21:45.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 23:35   #33
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..... I am going to use the Redline on my 15 TDI's I just bought unless someone has a reason not to.
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Yes, you did highjack this thread from what the OP was asking and turned it into a personal vendetta against 507.00 oil with the thought that you alone were going to educate the world about the evil spec. You, not me, start your own thread and see where that goes! You can title it 507.00 is a trap. Let us see how many people from Greece, Chile, Japan, India, Australia and Nigeria respond.
As you see i didn't hijack anything, i did explain the reason to not use 507 oil.And is not a personal vendetta ,i am not the only in earth that not use 507 in dpf-fitted engines.And start a new thread? For what reason?For try get more people to get the flame bigger? They can read you know w/o need to participate ...

Last edited by VwPassion; July 15th, 2017 at 05:37.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 10:06   #34
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Let it go. The op is looking at oils for his '15 tdi. I doubt he wants to risk losing his warranty using non specified oil- however small that risk is. The simple fact is that nobody over here is having any problems as a result of 507 oils used for 10k mile intervals. You've found a solution for a non existent problem.
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Old July 21st, 2017, 23:29   #35
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Meet : Just covers exactly the min. req. ... Nothing more . 5 out of 10 , literally base grade .

Exceed: Passes the test but we not know how easy . 6+ out of 10 .
How much + , unknown .

Recommended : This is what manufacturers offer . Easy choice and properly pass the tests .7+ out of 10 . How much + , unknown .

Approved :The sneaky one . Approved can be the 5/10 or the 10/10 . Our choice what we ll use if not going by the book .

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...37#post5296837

(#33 post) For persons that worry too much .

I have tdi with dpf and NOT using 507 . 505/505.01 is way better for protect engine so the 30s oils are outta question for me. 40s all the way up...
Nope.

"Approved" means the manufacturer specifically approves the product and certifies that it meets requirements.

"Meets or exceeds" means the oil manufacturer SAYS it meets or exceeds, but the manufacturer of the engine isn't saying anything.

Neither means "good" or "bad."

ALL oil manufacturers use the "meets or exceeds" language for most applications because NO oil manufacturer goes to the effort and expense to obtain car manufacturer approval for all applications. It would be prohibitively expensive, and frankly silly.

I've been watching this dumb debate for decades, and to date NOBODY has ever presented a single, verified case of an engine failure due to an oil that merely "meets or exceeds" rather that has "approval." Not once. And you'd be hard pressed to find an example of an engine failure due to the use of any oil, even if it's the wrong spec. People don't keep cars that long.

"Meets or exceeds" means what it says, and says what it means. The only reason VW puts so much emphasis on 507.00, and oil manufacturers go to the effort of getting official approval, is because of all the political attention on TDIs these days. Nobody wants to take a chance, legally, so they all want to get VW on the hook. That's all there is to it. There is nothing magic about "approval" or "certification", and in the real world it's rare anyway.

Want to see just HOW rare? Take a look at the specs for any grade of Mobil 1 synthetic and see how many actual APPROVALS it has. Maybe 2 or 3. Does that mean the other 500 car types are going to blow up if you use Mobil 1? Of course not.

Another issue: If an oil manufacturer wants a contract to be an OEM supplier then they pretty much have to get "approval", or "certification", or whatever you care to call it. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

This is a non-issue. Whether it says "approved", "meets", "exceeds" or "certified" has no effect at all on your car. It's the spec that counts.

-mickey
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Old July 21st, 2017, 23:33   #36
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I posted an example recently. Regular old Mobil 1 synthetic. Probably the most common synthetic oil in use.

It's approved by Honda, and by one of the German manufacturers (I forget which) but only in certain applications.

NO other car manufacturer approvals whatsoever. Zip. Nada. (And not VW, by the way.)

However, it has a very long list of "meets or exceeds."

Are we to conclude that Mobil 1 is junk and will ruin your Toyota, or your Volkswagen, or your Ford, or your Ferrari, or your Kia?

-mickey
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Old July 21st, 2017, 23:35   #37
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Read your owner's manual. Use a full synthetic oil of the appropriate viscosity that "Meets and exceeds" (or "meets") the published standard. If it happens to be "approved", fine. That and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

Change it when you're told to change it.

Find a more interesting hobby.

Done! Problem solved.

-mickey
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 01:40   #38
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"... And you'd be hard pressed to find an example of an engine failure due to the use of any oil, even if it's the wrong spec. People don't keep cars that long..."
"...
Does that mean the other 500 car types are going to blow up if you use Mobil 1? Of course not...."
"...
If an oil manufacturer wants a contract to be an OEM supplier then they pretty much have to get "approval", or "certification", or whatever you care to call it...."
"..
Whether it says "approved", "meets", "exceeds" or "certified" has no effect at all on your car. It's the spec that counts..."
"...
Are we to conclude that Mobil 1 is junk and will ruin your Toyota, or your Volkswagen, or your Ford, or your Ferrari, or your Kia?..."
"...
Read your owner's manual....Change it when you're told to change it...."

Just a sum of your thoughts, i didn't quote them ,it takes a lot space .
Now, my thoughts while i see yours....
Buying a car is an investment . That means for the 75% of people that want to get the most of it ,and i am sure the examples of this site agree with me.The rest can effort to get easy a car ,blow it up and next day just get repaired or get a new one .This 25% can stop reading here,it s not for them this article . Total failure is not always the result of a use of any oil but an engine can worm out up to 30% w/o able to visible inspect it and the performance will drop just a few, that few that only 15% of people will understand or care for that . The oil manufacturers need the specs for just get into dealers stores and sell their products but specs as you say is all about . If a car manufacturer say "My engine last long and people( and me as company) not care to last so long", obviously the spec that will be asked will not help engine health and longevity .Period . That s the way things are .Construction of an engine is rely to the "blood", the oil . No good oil have results that the most people still consider as "normal" while are not ,like oil consumption . What is a good oil? the one that is protect the engine .Not what is manufacturer says,they just want to sell and having troubles with engine ,makes them happy .The best way to ensure that an engine will have problems is ....to tell you to strictly follow their specs or else you are out of the...guarantee( the guarantee that ensure them that they will worm out the engine...).If not follow their specs and put a better oil even w/o their specs (which by the way we both agree that engine will not blow up ) ,you just 'ruin" their plan . So not using a spec that have a lot problems (not getting always the 507 example ,lets say the 505 vs 505.01 which a lot did that mistake ) it have a benefit for the car you own and want to keep the most . Reading the manual and change the oil and specified intervals have no use at that forum ,all push oil to its limits so manual have no use i think at that case .
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Old July 30th, 2017, 00:25   #39
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Originally Posted by VwPassion View Post
"... And you'd be hard pressed to find an example of an engine failure due to the use of any oil, even if it's the wrong spec. People don't keep cars that long..."
"...
Does that mean the other 500 car types are going to blow up if you use Mobil 1? Of course not...."
"...
If an oil manufacturer wants a contract to be an OEM supplier then they pretty much have to get "approval", or "certification", or whatever you care to call it...."
"..
Whether it says "approved", "meets", "exceeds" or "certified" has no effect at all on your car. It's the spec that counts..."
"...
Are we to conclude that Mobil 1 is junk and will ruin your Toyota, or your Volkswagen, or your Ford, or your Ferrari, or your Kia?..."
"...
Read your owner's manual....Change it when you're told to change it...."

Just a sum of your thoughts, i didn't quote them ,it takes a lot space .
Now, my thoughts while i see yours....
Buying a car is an investment . That means for the 75% of people that want to get the most of it ,and i am sure the examples of this site agree with me.The rest can effort to get easy a car ,blow it up and next day just get repaired or get a new one .This 25% can stop reading here,it s not for them this article . Total failure is not always the result of a use of any oil but an engine can worm out up to 30% w/o able to visible inspect it and the performance will drop just a few, that few that only 15% of people will understand or care for that . The oil manufacturers need the specs for just get into dealers stores and sell their products but specs as you say is all about . If a car manufacturer say "My engine last long and people( and me as company) not care to last so long", obviously the spec that will be asked will not help engine health and longevity .Period . That s the way things are .Construction of an engine is rely to the "blood", the oil . No good oil have results that the most people still consider as "normal" while are not ,like oil consumption . What is a good oil? the one that is protect the engine .Not what is manufacturer says,they just want to sell and having troubles with engine ,makes them happy .The best way to ensure that an engine will have problems is ....to tell you to strictly follow their specs or else you are out of the...guarantee( the guarantee that ensure them that they will worm out the engine...).If not follow their specs and put a better oil even w/o their specs (which by the way we both agree that engine will not blow up ) ,you just 'ruin" their plan . So not using a spec that have a lot problems (not getting always the 507 example ,lets say the 505 vs 505.01 which a lot did that mistake ) it have a benefit for the car you own and want to keep the most . Reading the manual and change the oil and specified intervals have no use at that forum ,all push oil to its limits so manual have no use i think at that case .
You forgot "read a book and stop worrying about it."

In all my years of reading these same arguments on car forums, truck forums, motorcycles forums, lawnmower forums, etc, I've yet to see a documented case of an engine failing because of someone's choice of oil brands.

Nor do people keep their cars until the engines wear out these days. The rest of the car disintegrates LONG before the engine wears out, and they're so complex they're not realistically worth rebuilding.

It's a moot point. Just do what the owner's manual says. You'll live longer. Stress kills.

-mickey
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Old July 30th, 2017, 08:31   #40
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You forgot "read a book and stop worrying about it."

In all my years of reading these same arguments on car forums, truck forums, motorcycles forums, lawnmower forums, etc, I've yet to see a documented case of an engine failing because of someone's choice of oil brands.

Nor do people keep their cars until the engines wear out these days. The rest of the car disintegrates LONG before the engine wears out, and they're so complex they're not realistically worth rebuilding.

It's a moot point. Just do what the owner's manual says. You'll live longer. Stress kills.

-mickey
Manual did told me to keep first oil at 30k kms before change it because i should follow the dash intervals....... 30k kms !!!!.... The first oil.. !!! Seriously ??? ....The first oil ???
.....
Manual like me to pay to the brand my money as i see.....Better stop these jokes, really i mean it ....
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Old July 30th, 2017, 08:40   #41
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The first oil gets changed out at the factory. If you are buying expensive, boutique oils, you might as well take advantage of their capabilities.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 09:07   #42
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The first oil gets changed out at the factory. If you are buying expensive, boutique oils, you might as well take advantage of their capabilities.
So there is no break-in period for cars anymore? If you say that so, its a second joke at row . Oils analysis will show very different things from that you are saying right now .
Following the manual , the intervals are far away from real life . No break-in oil change is mentioned at any manual ( obviously why,no need again explanation ) and with the ability of oil analysis of various viscosity/brands ,manual have the same use of the toilet paper now-days .
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Old July 30th, 2017, 10:22   #43
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I have 502,000 miles on my VW. Body is solid. I change the oil every 10,000 miles, timing belt every 100,000 miles. Just because a body disintegrates in some parts of the world does not mean the body disintegrates in all parts of the world. Yes my car does suck oil. I add a pint up to a quart between those 10,000 mile oil changes. Fuel mileage still in the mid to upper 40's mpg.

The engines internally are not really any more complex than they were 50 years ago. Crank, rods, pistons. Nothing particularly new. Single overhead cam, dual overhead cam, pushrods, timing chains, timing belts. Nothing new. Now variable cam timing and duration, not really new but more successfully implemented.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 10:39   #44
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So there is no break-in period for cars anymore? If you say that so, its a second joke at row . Oils analysis will show very different things from that you are saying right now .
Following the manual , the intervals are far away from real life . No break-in oil change is mentioned at any manual ( obviously why,no need again explanation ) and with the ability of oil analysis of various viscosity/brands ,manual have the same use of the toilet paper now-days .
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Use whatever oil and change interval makes you happy. It's your car.
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Old August 5th, 2017, 18:24   #45
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I put the 5W-20 Redline into the wifes minivan. She is on a 16 day driving vacation around the West as we speak. When she gets home I will pull the stick and see how the oil looks, check for leaks and determine if there was any significant fuel mileage change. I was using dino oil before in a 5k change routine. I am looking to get about 11k between changes so it's summer time rather than winter and an annual change. I am going to also change the filter without the oil when she gets back in case the synthetic washed off any old varnish from the engine. I've read that the synthetics do have a higher detergent action than dino oil. I also bought a K&N higher flow filter than the stock Mopar. I figure that the Mopar filter in it now will be a 3k sacrifice.
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