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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Jetta Sedan (~ 2011+)

VW MKVI-A6 Jetta Sedan (~ 2011+) Discussions area for the MkVI (2011+) Jetta sedan. This model was originally codenamed NCS (New Compact Sedan).

View Poll Results: If you have experienced intercooler icing, select from the following options...
I have experienced a hard start / no start / power loss with my original intercooler 108 89.26%
I have experienced a hard start / no start / power loss with the UPDATED intercooler 13 10.74%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 23rd, 2014, 09:19   #61
6speed13jedi
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Default Issues starting, Intercooler ?

Hi everyone, I'm pretty new here I have a 13' Jetta 6speed and I have about 6000 miles on it and I drove it to school the other morning and it was about 20 degrees when I left and then when I got in the car to go home it was about 40-45 degrees and I turned the key and she tried to crank and nothing and I tried again and it cranked once and nothing, I tried two more times and those times it ran rough and shut off. On the last try it sputtered and sputtered and I bliped the throttle and it started to idle normally. Was this the intercooler icing issue ? I don't know much about the intercooler icing problem but its been sub ten degrees all week and its ran like a champ. What should I look for or avoid ?
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 09:59   #62
c4markee
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Ah thanks. Was trying to figure that one out for the last few days.
What is the stock compression or standard, the car has 50k on it.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:05   #63
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Sure sounds like it. I am so mad at VW for continuing to sell a car with the issue happening SO DAMN MUCH. Even if only the people who posted on this site were the only ones who had the issue, that would be a large percentage of Jetta TDI owners.

VW needs to have a look at their QC and design process.

But yes, OP that's exactly what it sounds like.

The icing is caused by large temperature inversions that cause condensation to get into the intercooler, freeze, thaw etc. The ice or condensation then either creates a sludge and plugs up sensors, or the engine sucks it up and can wreak havoc on cylinders and valves. Next time this happens, call the dealer immediately and try to get a tow so they can see evidence. (Hopefully it does not happen again)
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 14:48   #64
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Thanks for the info I was pretty sure that what happened, This is just my first TDI and I want to get it sorted out ASAP because its also my first brand new car
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 15:46   #65
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Does the egr valve have anything to do with the icing or gunk build-up?
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 15:50   #66
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Happened again this morning....This time no start...so i left it in my garage. The dealer asked me if i had any lights or codes, told them no lights or codes...They said it would be hard for them to prove anything (They believe). I guess i'll see if it starts in the morning. I like the car but in the end, if it wont run, it wont run. It just hit 60K and has been flawless up to this point...All service performed timely and is as clean as it was on day one...
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 16:12   #67
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While it is still under warranty get VW to install the intercooler fix TSB. It will be costly if you wait until the warranty is over.

Have Fun!

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Old January 23rd, 2014, 16:42   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jettagain View Post
Happened again this morning....This time no start...so i left it in my garage. The dealer asked me if i had any lights or codes, told them no lights or codes...They said it would be hard for them to prove anything (They believe). I guess i'll see if it starts in the morning. I like the car but in the end, if it wont run, it wont run. It just hit 60K and has been flawless up to this point...All service performed timely and is as clean as it was on day one...
I'd call the dealership and have it towed in, as you said, it won't run. Tell 'em you have all symptoms of intercooler issue and ask they check there first. If they play dumb give them the TSB number.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 18:14   #69
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UPDATE:
The dealer's diagnosed the car and determined that it was a frozen intercooler. They removed the IC hoses and found sludge inside. VWoA reviewed the case and decided to pay 100% parts and labor for the Cold Weather IC Retrofit. The dealer cleaned out the hoses and gave the car back to me until they get the parts in.

I noticed that the car still has a sluggish feeling to it. When driving in 6th gear at 60mph, it feels like I'm lugging the motor and trying to do 50mph in 6th. The 65-70mph 6th gear pull requires a noticeable amount of more pedal effort. Could this be issues with the MAP sensor or more ice forming causing restricted air flow? The weather has been up and down near freezing last week and now below freezing all this week. Today I noticed some slight loss of power after rolling in traffic around 45mph in 4th gear. After doing 60mph afterwards, it felt a little better. The weather was 16 degrees and the car sat for 2 days.

I had concerns of potential compressor surge due to my highway stall incident. I was forcing a lot of boost into clogged pipping. I called the dealer to mention this and they told me the diverted valve would take care if that extra pressure. I'm not sure how that system works on this car. My assumption is that it would be closed under load and only open up when I let off the gas pedal. Or does that depend on the placement of the MAP sensor, before or after IC?
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 18:47   #70
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Diverter valve? On a stock TDI? Nope.

Anyway, given that you suffered an engine power reduction that resulted in a failure to maintain speed, be sure to report the incident to the NHTSA.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 19:34   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
Diverter valve? On a stock TDI? Nope.

Anyway, given that you suffered an engine power reduction that resulted in a failure to maintain speed, be sure to report the incident to the NHTSA.
I definitely will. Jumping 5 lanes of thruway traffic accelerating after a toll plaza isn't fun !!!
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 19:50   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4markee View Post
Just got off the phone with the dealer. They are going to put the kit on. Dont know if that will help but at least its a step.
Asked for compression numbers again we will see if I get those.
C4markee: Out of curiosity are they doing it free of charge (looks like you are out of warranty)? I only ask because this happened to me the other day and even though I had it towed to the dealership they were insistant that it couldn't have been IC Icing because "they've never seen it before" and actually tried to teach me how to start my car (they assumed user error). Anyway my worry is that I may be out of warranty (I put a decent amount of miles on it) before it happens again and I was curious if they will take care of it still. Like you I had the no start documented so I hope that helps if this is the scenario for me.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 07:22   #73
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ChiTownPilot - I had mine done outside of warrenty. Car was completely locked up and had to have it towed in. As I live in NC it was the first the dealer had ever seen of the issue. VW covered everything and I was outside of my 36k mile warranty. It did say "good faith" on my invoice so not sure if they are covering 100% of them, but be polite and talk directly to VWOA if needed.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 09:39   #74
mac5155
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Default This car should come with Prozac (re: intercooler icing)

2011 Jetta w/ 70k miles. No IC icing since I've owned it (34k miles and 1 year) but it has been below freezing for 2 weeks straight now. I monitor everything closely. When I start it up, it starts normally. A bit of a shudder the first few seconds, wait 20-30 seconds, and go. The shudder has me worried. Going to pull the IC hose this weekend and see if anything's in there. No movement in the RPMs when shudder occurs and it's barely noticeable. Someone, please calm my fears
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Old January 24th, 2014, 09:56   #75
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Arrow Mk6 Jetta: Hard Start / No Start - Intercooler icing discussion in here!

Attention Mk6 Jetta owners!

Due to the high volume of intercooler icing threads popping up with the cold weather, I'm creating a STICKY thread in this forum to contain all intercooler icing related discussions. This will make it easier to find information in the future, rather than have a dozen threads about similar issues.

Bear with me as I combine old threads in the Mk6 Jetta forum into this sticky thread. Some posts may seem out of sequence, but that's because multiple threads are being combined into one.

If you're looking for more information on intercooler icing and cold weather no-start related issues, please see (and contribute to) the following thread...

Main TDIClub intercooler icing thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=302863

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL THREAD/PROBLEM SUMMARY:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE 12/21/13

New TSB issued that includes all VWs with CBEA and CJAA engines (Audi A3 is unknown), including Beetle and Beetle Convertible. See attached PDF for complete TSB.

Intercooler kit changeover valve revised from 0C to 10C.

Current TSB in PDF format

-VeeDubTDI

************************************************** *************************************
UPDATE 01/18/12

GraniteRooster's Frozen Charge Air Cooler (Intercooler) FAQ / Problem Summary


In an attempt to provide to most relevant details to the forum in summary format, I have compiled the following brief of the issues. This is multifaceted problem whose unresolved issues and discussion runs much deeper than this summary - I'd encourage folks to read the thread in detail for best understanding. At 1900+ posts and counting, you'll need a cup of coffee/tea and comfy chair

Problem
When driving in winter conditions (below ~20-25°F), external airflow over the air-air intercooler (IC) is cold enough to cause internal ice buildup in the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Ice buildup may lead to a variety of operational difficulties including restricted intake, reduced power, LIMP mode, engine stumbling, melt water or ice ingestion, and catastrophic engine damage.

Affected Engines
All 2.0L CR TDI engines (CJAA/CBEA) installed in all 2009-2012 model year Jetta TDI, Jetta Sportwagen TDI, and Golf TDI vehicles. Vehicles in both US and Canada are affected.

Occurrence
Ice buildup occurs while driving in cold winter conditions, typically below ~20-25°F. Melt water and ice ingestion may be experienced on subsequent engine start if the car is allowed to thaw while parked (such as in a warm garage, or warm parking lot above freezing temperatures).

Causes
This is a thermodynamic phenomenon caused by condensation and subsequent freezing or direct vapor deposition of water vapor as the turbo-compressed charge air is cooled through the IC and outlet charge hose assembly. Two main aspects of engine design contribute to the problem:
  1. Low-pressure EGR is used to control NOx formation for emissions compliance, however, this recirculates water vapor rich exhaust back to the turbo and IC.
  2. The IC design on these vehicles is very efficient, providing good heat transfer and economy (and good ice formation under proper conditions)
Symptoms
Ice
  • Restricted Intake & Reduced Power
  • LIMP Mode (flashing MIL’s, “Service Now” message)
  • Engine will not turn over (complete ice obstruction of intake)
  • Catastrophic engine damage (ice chip ingestion)
Water
  • Engine will not turn over, "dead battery" starter action (due to hydraulic resistance in cylinder)
  • Starter/electrical fires (due to starter overheating during attempts to start locked engine)
  • Engine will turn over slow / not start (drowning)
  • Engine will misfire, stumble, and run roughly upon starting (water ingestion)
  • Engine will misfire, stumble and run roughly upon acceleration (water ingestion)
  • Catastrophic engine damage (water ingestion – hydrolock)
Solutions
VW has issued Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. The kit may be installed by dealers on documented vehicles under original 36k warranty. Customers outside 36k warranty have often been denied installation under 60k powertrain warranty.

A (basically ineffective placebo) temporary solution implemented by VW involves removal of the forward facing cold air intake "snorkle" so that the airbox draws air from the engine bay, which allegedly may be warmer. In practice, TDIClub member testing has shown this modification to make insignificant changes to intake air temperatures, and is therefore ineffective.

What to Do - Frozen IC happened to me!
If the car won't start after one attempt, or stumbles and dies after an initial attempt, ***STOP!*** You have some decision making to do...

Further attempts to start the engine may (or may not) cause damage from minor to catastrophic. Depending on the amount of water in the intake and engine, damage may occur to pistons, connecting rods, glow plugs, injectors, head gaskets, etc. due to hydraulic lock. There is also risk of starter and electrical system damage from repeated start attempts against a locked engine. You will need to choose:
  • Service the car (preferred) , or
  • Attempt to start the engine and get where you are going (risky)
The best solution is to clear the intake and engine of water and ice before starting. However, it seems the engines are often able to pass melt water with undetectable or no damage. The preferred actions are:
  • Option 1: If under 36k warranty period, have the car towed to a VW dealer by VWoA to have the water and ice drained out and problem documented for installation of Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 Frozen Charge Air Cooler. Dealers typically will require this hands-on service and documentation to gain required approval from VWoA for installation of the IC TSB under warranty.
  • Option 2: Elevate the front of the car on jackstands, remove belly pan and lower IC outlet charge hose, remove water and ice from assembly. Reassemble and drive. This option will not be convenient for a typical owner in most typical situations, given need for jacks, stands, tools, light, etc. plus safe environment and time to complete the repair.
  • Option 3: Have vehicle towed to appropriate repair facility for removal of water and ice from the IC assembly
Owners should report problems to their VW dealer and VWoA (1-800-822-8987) (or VWoC, etc.) as they occur. VWoA has the ultimate say in warranty installation of IC Kits; they rely on dealers to be gatekeepers on diagnosis, therefore dissatisfied owners having difficulty with installation approval should increase negotiations directly with both dealer and VWoA. Owners with safety concerns due to this issue should contact NHTSA and report their concerns.


************************************************** *************************************
UPDATE 01/17/12

Click hyperlink for .PDF copy of TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464

(Credit 740GLE Post #1352)


************************************************** *************************************
UPDATE 09/14/11

TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011 has been super-ceded by TSB # 21 11 02 / 2025464 dated June 14, 2011 and most recently, TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 dated September 6, 2011. The latest TSB referenced updates to warranty table and labor information. It may be helpful to reference the latest TSB when requesting warranty work.

(Credit Aerox Post #1003)


************************************************** *************************************

UPDATE 6/2011

There is now a TSB with a fix for this issue. TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011, titled "Frozen Charge Air Cooler – Engine Will Not Start". It calls for installing a 1K0-198-803-B Cold Weather Intercooler Kit.

The kit includes:
  • New Intercooler (IC) with internal vacuum-actuated flap valve
  • Vacuum Sensor
  • Intake Elbow with Temperature Probe & Vacuum Actuator
  • required plumbing

Installation requires 3-4 hours labor and corresponding ECU software update. This kit was installed on my car by VW on 07/06/2011. Here are pictures of the kit installed on my '10 JSW, as seen from the front of the engine compartment. The post-IC intake charge temperature/vacuum actuator are circled in red. The rest of the kit is not easily viewed without removing the engine belly pan, etc.





EDIT 03/07/2012: Member UberVW_TDI posted nice pictures of the components of the kit in Post 792.

Integrated Temperature Sensor and Vacuum Switch / Blending Valve mounted on Elbow


Intercooler with vacuum actuated diverter valve


03G-906-051-K (VACUUM SENSOR)


EDIT 03/07/2012: Member PAJettaTDI posted good photos of his installation in his photo thread.




************************************************** *************************************
ORIGINAL POST 12-17-2010


**I posted this at the end of the "Cold Start/Scare" thread in the MK5 forum - but thought I would post here in Mk6 JSW as well for the benefit of MK6 owners who do not frequent the MK5 forum... I hope that is OK.**

After a longtime lurking I have something to say and its not good - my car has been having significant icing problems as well.

I commute 100 miles each way from Northern NH to Southern NH 4 times a week. I leave at 5am and return at 5pm. Obviously NH is subject to freeze thaw cycles and we have been having some very rainy, humid conditions this November/Early December.

I have had rough starts with symptoms of water being drawn through the engine 4-5 times in the last 3 weeks. I have had the engine not turn over once.... paused 5-10 sec, checked myself, tried again, and cranked but caught rough and stumbled for 45-60sec...., and then again once pulling out of parking lot, engine RPM's (and airflow) rising, more stumble.

Then, Tuesday Dec 14th driving home, left South NH in 27 F degrees, rain, snow mix and temperature falling rapidly. 25 minutes into the drive, precip has transitioned to mostly snow, and temperature now 14 F degrees and still falling. 72mph in left lane, power cuts, Service NOW message, Glow Plug lights flashing. Finished 70 mile drive home with engine in LIMP mode and 10 degree external temperatures, wondering if my HPFP was expired. I was low on fuel, so left engine idling in LIMP and filled up with my favorite B5 before continuing home and shut it off. Read most of this thread... holy cow this is not good.

Next morning, 8deg, car fires up, no CEL's, drive 100 miles to dealer and drop it off. They let it sit till lunch outside in freezing temps. Bring it into shop, they drained almost a cup of water and ice out of the intercooler lines.

This is major spooky as I have already had one start that was "hydro-locked", but I didn;t know what was going on at this time so I forced it and it started horrible. I am real concerned about major long term engine damage from regular ingestion of big slugs of water caused by this icing/melt problem. This car is 10 months old with 33,000 miles, driven very regular route, broken in well and driven accordingly, 2 out of 3 fillups with B5 and the rest straight ULSD always from the same two stations, so the average bio-concentration in the tank is is usually B2-B4..... I intended to keep this car a long time, but having it ice up a couple times a week for several months of the year is just not going to work.

Dealer considers car fixed until it throws another code... and it doesn't throw a code when it hydrolocks or or rough starts. I question how many more times this can happen before I have bent or broken rods and worse.

Thanks to all for very cool and informative forum here - I have learned a lot and enjoyed my TDI very much until now. Thought I would let you all know of another iced up intercooler.

I am also starting a case with VWoA - the more the merrier.
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