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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

View Poll Results: Which AMSOIL?
Premium API CJ-4 Diesel Oil (DEO) 100 28.65%
European Car Formula Motor Oil (AFL) 249 71.35%
Voters: 349. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 5th, 2006, 13:40   #61
LurkerMike
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Oil debate seems to be as bad as Judaism vs Islam vs Christianity vs Buddhism vs Hindu vs Republican vs Democrat vs Libertarian vs Independant...
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Old July 5th, 2006, 14:05   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKmetz
Informercial style testimonials have no place in this thread, or any oil thread for that matter. Posts of this type only attract detractors that will post that they have used other brands of oil longer with better results. Nothing can be quantified so nothing is ever resolved.
You're right. The only valid comparison between products is with standardized testing - normally with ASTM and/or ISO procedures - with un-used oil. These are the bounds within which OEMs and/or governing bodies (API, ACEA, ILSAC) create specs and these are the tests and procedures used when oil and additive companies formulate products to meet the requirements.

Unfortunately, most oil companies don't pass-on their test results to the marketing departments or the public. Most oil products are 'commodity' level products that are built to just hit the minimum standard - therefore, their test results are often identical - because most of them use the same additive package licensed from the API, and/or built by the same additive company. From the June 2006 Infineum Insight pages 12 &13 'Niche Lubricants: Emerging North American Passenger Car Oil Markets': "Just as with previous North American PCMO [passenger car motor oil] industry specifications, lubricants meeting ILSAC GF-4 are essentially non-differentiated or commodity type products..."

We've come a LONG way in the past year with TDI oil. A year ago, many of the threads broke-down with people arguing about which petroleum API CI-4 oil was best for TDIs. It's taken time and effort and many threads to shift the group to think in a new way - that synthetic is required for a reason, and that ACEA Bx (now ACEA Ax/Bx) and the VW specs force higher quality products tailored to TDIs. And I'm certain that the fruits of the shift will show as longer-lasting cars with higher efficiency and lower $$$s spent on repairs for the TDI club community as compared to those in the 'general TDI population'.

Andy
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Old July 5th, 2006, 15:09   #63
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Originally Posted by AndyH
Brian,

I don't think this is even all of the issue. Many of the threads that have deteriorated into the polar-opposite issue you've outlined didn't begin as attack threads, and most didn't begin as AMSOIL threads! They were hijacked and then took on a life of their own. I think that, if we're looking to identify which link of the chain broke, it's about hijack, not a specific oil company. So maybe the real quest should be adult-behavior rules?
You're right. We have a behavior problem, not an oil problem.

Quote:
One of the areas I've tried to work with here - from as completely a vendor-neutral position as possible - is warranty. The FUD minority shouted that if the oil used wasn't on the list, the warranty is automatically gone. This is one of the reasons for the recent looks at MagMoss and the aftermarket laws in the US - which offer significantly more options for the US consumer than our Euro bros/sisters have. Regardless of OEM requirements, oil companies are on the hook for their products and are the guys that write the check when the oil fails. So - from a strictly aftermarket view, the bottom line is still product performance - just as it is for pistons or camshafts. Contrary to the screams of the FUD minority - these discussions were warranty-centric, not oil-centric. Some of the happenings in these threads that lead me to believe that the membership still isn't clear on this - and is therefore are in a position to be controlled by a dealership and not in control of their consumer rights - are arguments like 'engine warranty will be void for the wrong oil the same way the warranty is void for biodiesel use' (one of these is covered by a VW position statement, the other is not).
Just one mindset of many that needs to change.

Quote:
Personal attacks are even happening in THIS thread! This is an area I'd like to see some 'teeth' in the moderation process.
I'm being tolerant during this transition period. I'm going to let everyone get their grievances aired in this thread. So let it all out, this is the thread to do it. And they better get it all out of their systems now, by catharsis, behavior modification, hypnotism, whatever it takes, because how we finally decide to conduct ourselves, I will make sure we will conform.

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I learned a GREAT deal from the last few month's threads (as I did from the 'discussions' of the late '90s) - and we as a group learned some things about the 505.01 spec that we didn't realize earlier in the year - so there has been some value! I just wish there wasn't so much garbage to wade thru to get the good info.
I agree. Great information gets lost, especially when I have to send a thread to the black hole. This is about my biggest pet-peeve, having to watch great information ruined by the antics of a small minority who put their egos above the good of the club, and the babysitting I am forced to do to get people to behave.

Quote:
It would be far nicer if we could find a way to 'work together' in a Napoleon Hill 'mastermind' type of structure -- where two or more people come together in a spirit of harmony to achieve a common goal. People not in harmony need not apply.
It would be nice, that's a hard mindset to change.

Quote:
SO -- in the interest of continuing to advance the community's 'corporate knowledge', I'd like to propose the use of a key-word in thread titles. Threads having 'mastermind' in the title are for the express purpose of solving an issue. Any of the rules violations mentioned in the first post of this thread will (not can) result in deleting the post from the thread - two deletions max - the third 'strike' is a temporary ban from the forum. Thoughts? Andy
We shouldn't have to use a keyword. The behavior for posting already exists in us as adults. Everyone already knows what the behavior expectations are, when one registers one agrees to a contract of conduct. I see it as changing the juvenile mindset that people bring with them.
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Old July 5th, 2006, 16:37   #64
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Originally Posted by Frank M
What does the Suzuki run like when you use a different oil?
THe Motorcycle shifts smoother, and has less engine noise at higher rpm.

BRAIN
I am sorry if you took my comments about Amsoil as a from as advertizing. I only wanted to state that I was happy with Amsoil, and will continue to use it
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Old July 5th, 2006, 17:23   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanP
I am sorry if you took my comments about Amsoil as a from as advertising. I only wanted to state that I was happy with Amsoil, and will continue to use it
There really is no way to take your comments other than advertising. I was trying to illustrate that unsubstantiated claims invite abuse, which is what I'm trying to avoid. That's what this thread is about.

Part of the problem (if you take the time to read prior threads) is that resolution can be that simple. You are going to keep using your oil of choice, and that's that. Others will not respect your choice and use these forums to discredit your choice. And the escalation continues...
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Old July 5th, 2006, 17:40   #66
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I was trying to illustrate that unsubstantiated claims invite abuse, which is what I'm trying to avoid. That's what this thread is about.
Say it again, brother.

Note that although this was in reply to a person that has one point of view, the statement itself is inclusive of all points of view.

Thanks, BK.
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Old July 5th, 2006, 19:21   #67
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Exclamation Looking for PD owners using AMSOIL

As the title states - I'm trying to put together a head-count of PDers using oil from the 'A' company.

This is non-attribution -- I'll not be using your info anywhere.

Please do NOT post your info here unless you want to -- please PM me with how many miles you have on the reformulated AFL.

You'll be providing info for others on the forum that think they're alone.

Thanks very much!
Andy

Last edited by AndyH; July 6th, 2006 at 15:26.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 10:46   #68
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Is empirical data meaningless?

In no way shape, form or fashion can anyone tell me that there was a clear cause and effect here. This was not done under careful laboratory conditions over several hundred experiments. It was a one time occurrence and nothing of value can be learned from it.

Last edited by BKmetz; July 6th, 2006 at 13:34.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 11:03   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerMike
Is empirical data meaningless?
. This was not done under careful laboratory conditions over several hundred experiments. It was a one time occurrence and nothing of value can be learned from it.
exactly!
I get a kick out of " I use XXXXX oil and it works great"

Definition of "great":
  • I filled it with the oil and the engine did start
  • the engine did not immediately seize
  • no thrown rods
  • i went all the way to 10k mile oil change
  • after 30,000 miles I submitted oil analysis and it is the same as any other oil
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Old July 6th, 2006, 11:54   #70
LurkerMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank M
exactly!
I get a kick out of " I use XXXXX oil and it works great"

Definition of "great":
  • I filled it with the oil and the engine did start
  • the engine did not immediately seize
  • no thrown rods
  • i went all the way to 10k mile oil change
  • after 30,000 miles I submitted oil analysis and it is the same as any other oil
Thanks for the endorsement!

It is very funny how two people can agree on the "facts" but draw exactly opposite conclusions!

Last edited by BKmetz; July 6th, 2006 at 13:33.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 12:37   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerMike
It is very funny how two people can agree on the "facts" but draw exactly opposite conclusions!
Ever heard the phrase 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'? (I may be able to use some of your Beagle Brand - is it wet clutch compatible?!)

The world-recognized standards are from the ASTM and ISO - and these are regarded by the industry as the only valid comparisons. What does one do when THESE data are presented and folks still don't understand?

Last edited by AndyH; July 6th, 2006 at 12:39.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 16:36   #72
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I've used the new reformulated AFL in my 05 PD-TDI for 16,000Km (10,000miles) before switching back to a true 505.01 oil (LubroMoly). I have not noticed any change in the way the engine feels, sounds, or fuel economy changes while using AFL.

My sister's 04 PD-TDI is currently on AFL, and after the 10K interval I'll be switching back to a 505.01 oil...
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Old July 7th, 2006, 09:53   #73
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I'm using it on my 04 PD NB.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 16:08   #74
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I am at 37k miles (2005 Golf) and some change. At 40k I plan on switching to Amsoil. My bro is already running it in his TDI Golf and I think he is at like 16k miles. I plan on a full UOA at 40k and at 50k. I will makes sure I post the results when they are available.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 20:48   #75
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I was planning on using up my supply of Elf DID. Purchased before Amsoil
introduced their reformulated oil.

However due to the very annoying trolls on this site I've decided to use the Amsoil product in my 2004 PD engine.

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